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Vengaence VS Zeal

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by gzvernon, Feb 10, 2004.

  1. gzvernon

    gzvernon IncGamers Member

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    Vengaence VS Zeal

    In evryones opinion, what is the best of these 2 attack skills

    Vengaence gives ALOT of elemental damage,its synergies plus conviction can be a great help in battles,even against PvP.

    on the oher hand...

    Zeal gives up to 5 hits with one swing & leaves more points for fanatism & defiance for synergy reasons ,but the problem with it i dont like is being in a heavy battle with tough enemies & i cant get out of the battle to regroup & heal to survive until the 5 hit combo is over.

    can someone enlighten me how to avoid getting killed early on in the characters life when i dont have the benefit of better items with resists & asorb on when i have zeal as an attack?
     
  2. redalert

    redalert IncGamers Member

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    In my opinion zeal should save a pally from packs of enemies, more so than vengeance. Having 5 quick hits with life leech keeps up with the massive damage you take, especiallly when surrounded and pounded by high physical damage or fast hitting monsters. With vengeance you have to concentrate on hitting one target at a time and deal with blocking/stun, while with zeal you get stunned and have to block, but the 5 hits is uninterrupted when you are able to use zeal. Vengeance is great against physical immunes, but 1 pt into it and 1 pt into conviction has been sufficient enough for me to kill PI's in hell. Since vengeance converts your physical dmg into elemental damage, any vengeance should already be pretty effective in most cases.

    Against physical immunes or monsters that don't let you leech off of them, its nice to have lifetap (example equipment with % to cast would be Dracul's gloves - these work okay on pvm zealadin for me, especially against those damn gloams/burning souls/black souls) - with lifetap u'll get 50% hp back based on the damage you do, which can make zealing PI's and stuff a little easier.

    And about early on when lvling, I would say zeal is easier to use because of the mana cost. Zeal always costs 2 mana, no matter what level, and you do up to 5 hits in just a few short lvls for 2 mana total. Mana regen during/after battles should be enough to keep ur mana up especially if u dun have much or any mana leech. Vengeance on the other hand already costs 4 mana at lvl 1 for 1 hit. Lvl 20 is 8.7 mana per hit. If you like pumping mana potions at lower lvl with low mana leech, its all good then. But imo zeal is better for pvm overall in more situations than vengeance.
     
  3. Syphilis

    Syphilis IncGamers Member

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    i don't agree many parts of this.

    - hitting one monster is a blessing. you are sure you will at least kill one monster before retreating.
    - vengence doesn't convert your physical dmg, it's not berserk. it adds elemental dmg.
    - the single resists helps you having high max resists, thus helping survivability.
    - you can have a huge damage with just lvl1 vengence, so the mana cost stays at 1.
    - i'm playing my avenger with a cold act3 merc. with my conviction, he's dealing alot of dmg, plus he is my crowd control. he can freeze all uniques' minions allowing me to deal with hard uniques elsewhere. he can even freeze normal CI as they loose their immunity.

    but as you say, zeal leaches more, is uninterruptible, has a lower mana cost ...

    i think both are ok for pvm.
     
  4. Rascargil

    Rascargil IncGamers Member

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    zeal is interruptible o_O
     
  5. xpumafangx

    xpumafangx IncGamers Member

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    zeal is not soo interruptible. :lol:

    Life tap does 50% of the monsters life back to you not 50% of the damage you do. Try hitting some one with life tap casted on them that has low life. and you have 1/4 your life left. Then attack them with insane damage. You will see what I mean realy quickly. Because you will get very little life given back.

    Having done bolth builds I like zealots more. But that's just me. I do like that a avanger can do alot of ele damage and you can still life leech off of it, because you also do phy damage.

    The only thing about eather is is personl prefence. But I do think that spending alot of mana just to attack some thing does bite.
     
  6. wisedoor

    wisedoor IncGamers Member

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    It´s much easier to make a good zealot than a good avenger, take this into account. Conv Avengers don´t benefit from life leech and stats that would be good for zealots. Item setup and focus on both builds are very different, thu a perfect avenger does slighty more damage per second than a perfect fana zealot against AVERAGE hell monsters, Zealots win against bosses.
     
  7. mastrinidad

    mastrinidad IncGamers Member

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    okay ..noob question..where do i get the "life tap" ability from? What item allows me to cast it.
     
  8. nSin

    nSin IncGamers Member

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    draculs grasp or an "exile" runeworded shield
     
  9. joepublic

    joepublic IncGamers Member

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    Let's not forget cb, static, open wounds, and other things that trigger more often with zeal then they do with vengence.
     
  10. Pent

    Pent IncGamers Member

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    my next pally will be avenger
    plan on testing single player/mod with average equipment and skills:
    20 vengence
    testing 20 conviction or 20 fana (for speed and phys dmg)
    20 fire resist
    20 lightning resist
    20 cold resist

    I'm pretty sure conviction would help out alot more in party games, with all the casters, but solo I don't need to remove immunities because of my 4 sources of damage, so...
    I will play around with the skills first before making a real bnet ladder build and report back later
    I expect that you won't need alot of mana leech for maxed vengence since its damage is so insane that you might even kill act5 hell champions in one hit or something o_O
    time will tell, I will see..
     
  11. gzvernon

    gzvernon IncGamers Member

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    keep in mind ladder play is harder than non-ladder or Singleplayer
     
  12. Pent

    Pent IncGamers Member

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    Yes, monsters do more damage and have more hitpoints.
    But ladder is the only thing I play ;)
     
  13. gzvernon

    gzvernon IncGamers Member

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    i mean when testing your build in Singleplayer that those monsters are easier to kill then ladder monsters,thats all i was saying. :cool:
     
  14. joepublic

    joepublic IncGamers Member

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    About 3/4 of that damage is elemental damage and you can't leach off of that. Your leach will come off weopon and str. If u go veng/fanat then you'll get more leach because of fanat.
     
  15. Evanta

    Evanta IncGamers Member

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    The main draw of Vengence over Zeal as a skill is that it focuses on only 1 target, hence reducing the no. of monsters attacking you more quickly than Zeal. Also, it's best paired with Conviction, the most party-friendly aura of all. Yet another is that Vengence gets synergies from the resist auras, which also boost the passive + to max resist, giving the Avenger more protection from elemental damage.

    But yah, Zeal gives more advantages overall though. You just can't argue with '% chance to do something uber' and super fast attack speed.
     
  16. groaninronin

    groaninronin IncGamers Member

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    To mister Pent :)

    I would suggest a few less pts in the fire and cold res and put some pts
    into holy shield( an awsome skill in 1.1 )
    I built an avenger with 10 cold, 10 fire, 20 lit( this aura is a great swap
    when doing baal runs, you will be a hit with the party when u use it
    to give them all 95 lit res when black souls show there
    ugly faces ).
    Have fun with your new avenger anyway dude.
     
  17. Ifrit18

    Ifrit18 Banned

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    My avenger gets load of comments about how fast monsters die to a 8k+ blizzard and 8k+ fireball from fellow party members :p.
     
  18. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir IncGamers Member

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    i see someone say avengers dont benefit from life leech.

    i expected that before i build mine. i have only 14& ll, kinda by accident, i didnt try to get any. to my suprise, i leech over 100 life per hit (in normal though, i am only just done with normal baal runs)
     
  19. whathappen

    whathappen IncGamers Member

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    One thing: if you frequently group with sorcs or other characters doing elemental damage like trap assasin, lighting zons, then avenger seems the logical choice.
     
  20. WvX_leader

    WvX_leader Banned

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    Wholy **** people does the word 'hybrid' occur in your dictionary?
     

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