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Velkom to ze US ov A

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by alexzed, Sep 6, 2006.

  1. alexzed

    alexzed IncGamers Member

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    Velkom to ze US ov A

    I love this article. Not so much that it describes war crimes, but that it how it casually mentions that the US Army is 'reverting to Geneva Conventions'. Meaning that they are now admitting to committing war crimes. *sigh* When will someone pay for this?

    Oh right - when society collapses on itself...a government of terror will eventually implode...

    [Edit: I guess the Nuremberg Trials started after the war and took 5 years, so I guess we'll see 'W' swinging from a rope 5 years after the war ends. As that was May 1, 2003, we should see that soon! :thumbsup: ]
     
  2. MadMachine

    MadMachine IncGamers Member

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    *gets a comfy seat to watch when Smeg finds this thread*

    They don't call you the anti-Smeg for nothing, do they, alexzed?
     
  3. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    Actually, it means that U.S. forces are reverting to Geneva Conventions.


    Nice to see you're on top of the news and so well informed. There have been at least 9 convictions from ye olde torture at Abu Ghraib.

    Keep up the good work.
     
  4. alexzed

    alexzed IncGamers Member

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    Which means that they were committing war crimes...

    That was Abu Ghraib - and did not deal with the people who ordered the torture. You're missing the big print here. People following orders and getting wrists slapped is one thing. Making the people responsible for telling those people to do those things is quite another.

    Your choice - court martial and time in jail, or pat on the back and time in jail.
     
  5. FlimFlan

    FlimFlan IncGamers Member

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    Where exactly are they admitting to war crimes? Is there a quote I am missing? Is the journalist adding his own spin?
     
  6. Sir EvilFreeSmeg

    Sir EvilFreeSmeg Banned

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    The only thing this means is we're giving them trials. No doubt they'll be using ACLU lawyers.

    There never were any war crimes. He's jsut trying to get people riled up over nothing. Those prisoners are living better now than they did in the caves.
     
  7. alexzed

    alexzed IncGamers Member

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    Smeg - you must be tired!!! Living in caves?

    Seriously though - the words 'reverting to Geneva Conventions' have been mentioned in many articles about this...does that not strike you as somewhat odd?

    Let's say, for example, that Iran said 'We are reverting from making devastating nuclear weapons with which to attack the United States'. Would you not see that as being an admission of guilt?

    I just think that any country (yes, that means Iraq, China, Iran etc) that flagrantly defies the Geneva Convention should be punished from the top down. (Incidentally - the US is one of the main defiers of the Geneva Convention...in fact - did they ever really sign it?)

    [edit: Yes - they signed it, but did not ratify the 1977 protocols that covered POWs]
     
  8. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

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    Don't take this as the gospel truth, but I seem to remember the US didn't ratify a certain UN treaty regarding the use of land mines. Instead, the US preferred a stricter ruling.

    If the US "reverted" to the UN definition, would that mean they had been flagrantly violating that definition before? Even though the US standards were stricter than the UN's?

    Just a thought. I honestly don't believe this is the case here, but I felt obliged to point out the logical flaw anyway. =)
     
  9. EliManning

    EliManning IncGamers Member

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    Bearing in mind the previously mentioned convictions for acts that violate the Geneva Conventions, I think one would be hard pressed to put up a strong argument that some kind of overcompliance with the Geneva Conventions is the reason for the choice to use the phrase "reverting to the Geneva Conventions." The following argument seems sound to me:

    P1: US soldiers have previously violated the Geneva Conventions.
    P2: The US is reverting to the Geneva Conventions.
    C: The US was previously not in compliance with the Geneva Conventions.
     
  10. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    *Sigh* I hate it when a serious issue like this gets swamped by partisan idiocy. From both sides.

    The treatment of those prisoners is a distraction; the real issue here is the idea of secret prisons. But everyone is going to be so busy chasing the mistreatment of prisoners angle (which is unlikely to produce any reliable evidence) that they're all going to implicitly accept that idea.
     
  11. Omikron8

    Omikron8 IncGamers Member

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    we need some wholesome global anarchy to shake up this whole concept of "civilization"
     
  12. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

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    I already said as much.

    And for the record that is one of the worst syllogisms I've ever seen. :laugh:
     
  13. MadMachine

    MadMachine IncGamers Member

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    I accepted the idea of the United States having secret prisons a long time ago. You can't really expect the world's most influential nation to be that way while being completely honest, can you?
     
  14. alexzed

    alexzed IncGamers Member

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    You know - that might be the first time the word 'syllogism' has come up in a OTF discussion...I could be wrong...

    Don - you actually acknowledged the 500lb gorilla...the fact that the press acknowledges a secret prison...but I digress.

    We can argue back and forth...but does aruging the finer points make it right?
     
  15. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy IncGamers Member

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    Wow. Bush finally got the balls to call out Rumsfeld on the torture thing. Rummy must be going on a hunger strike soon.

    15 months ago, conservatives stated that the misconduct on at Abu was correct behavior. Apparantly the US Army disagrees.

    Has the Army gone soft?

    Oh crap, I was kidding. Don't want to be labled a terrorist sympathiser for criticizing the US military.

    Support out troops!
     
  16. MadMachine

    MadMachine IncGamers Member

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    Welcome to Gulag, USA. Population: jimmyboy.
     
  17. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    Nah. Off the top of my head it came up in that Proof God Doesn't Exist thread.

    Gorilla? Is that like "the elephant in the room"?
     
  18. Stevinator

    Stevinator IncGamers Member

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    it seems to come up any time someone attempts to use logic. also, I think he means elephant. the 500 lbs. gorilla is the one that sleeps anywhere it wants (from the old joke). Alexzed is always a little confused. ALways entertaining, but confused, surely.
     
  19. alexzed

    alexzed IncGamers Member

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    You're right - had a lot of nagging over my shoulder when I wrote that post...I did mean elephant...the point was made, however...
     
  20. FlimFlan

    FlimFlan IncGamers Member

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    The reverting to the Geneva Convention means that they are now considering these people who they said were previously not covered. It does not mean that the POWs from Iraq were not covered by the Geneva Convention. Obviously, there have been violations, but it is tough to condemn the whole US Army for the actions of a few. Those who committed the crimes and those in charge should be punished.
     

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