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Upgrading runes that are possibly duped?

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by GandalfTheGhey, Aug 30, 2006.

  1. GandalfTheGhey

    GandalfTheGhey IncGamers Member

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    Upgrading runes that are possibly duped?

    I am not advocating duping in any way here, but I had a Mal rune that I traded for dissapear on me.

    I assume this was because whoever duped it, just duped and sold instead of cubing it up to a higher rune?

    So I am thinking I can avoid this later by just trading for 2 runes of lower grade and upgrading them to the rune I want.

    After you upgrade them they get a new ID and will not poof right?
     
  2. thegiantturtle

    thegiantturtle IncGamers Member

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    There is no definitive answer either way. Despite your disclaimer, you are looking for a way to keep dupes from being destroyed. Even if I could help you, I wouldn't.
     
  3. GandalfTheGhey

    GandalfTheGhey IncGamers Member

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    No, I have no way of knowing whether the runes I trade for are duped or not.

    A Jah or Ber is a Jah or Ber, there is no way to tell whether it is duped or not.

    Unless you never use runes higher then Gul ( unless you find them yourself ) this is a problem for even the most legit player ( of which I am one ).
     
  4. pedu

    pedu IncGamers Member

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    I heard that they tested this somewhere. With a legit rune and one from the realms. And it dissappeared. This is what ive heard, no threads to back me up. But i think its kinda weird. One would think it would work...
     
  5. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    HRs are so cheap anyway, that who cares if they poof? Just buy another. If HRs weren't duped, Ohm price would be six ists and it would only get worse, like Lo at ten, Sur at 15+ and Ber at 30+ ists (!)
     
  6. pedu

    pedu IncGamers Member

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    "Just buy another"??? You clearly have forgotten how it was to be poor.
     
  7. Dennis_KoreanGuy

    Dennis_KoreanGuy IncGamers Member

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    Ignorance. Even if thy self is wealthy enough to think so or not, clearly you must realize there are people who would generally be content with a hr?

    As for the topic, hmm good question. I suppose nobody really knows the truth about dupes, and although theoretically it sounds right, then wouldn't all dupers just cube to get legit runes? I mean 2 ohm, 3 jah, 40 ists, whats the difference to em?
     
  8. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    You're right, I have (almost) forgotten how it was to be poor.

    But planning out another reset test run, maybe that will get me thinking straight again.
     
  9. Merick

    Merick IncGamers Member

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    Hmm, maybe the only ones that poof are the ones that dupers didn't upgrade themselves? :scratch:
     
  10. RomeoVsJuliet

    RomeoVsJuliet IncGamers Member

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    haha I havnt. I AM STILL POOR.
     
  11. Sszark

    Sszark IncGamers Member

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    Very good question. It actually doesn't mean he's a duper. Anyone on earth who trades for HRs would like them to not disappear. I did that once when I needed a Zod. Before I read this thread I was pretty confident it wouldn't burn, but now I'm not so sure.

    There's another RW I'd like to make before ladder ends, but there's no point if even cubed runes are going to vanish.
     
  12. smeer

    smeer IncGamers Member

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    I always thought that is you make a runeword they get a new ID and will not poof.
    So my strategy always is: making sure I've got enough (ISTs) to trade both runes and the item to create the runeword in. Then first trade the item, then the HR(s) and create the runeword. There will be a verry short period where there is a chance for the HRs to poof....
     
  13. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, just socket them the instant you get them (at least same game) and they won't poof unless ruststorm comes, IIRC
     
  14. Yerba

    Yerba IncGamers Member

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    Looking at it from a databasing standpoint it only makes sense that once upgraded in the cube the new rune would only have one ID.

    Look at the number of higher runes in the 1.10 runewords. Look at Last Wish. Did Blizzard really assume that anyone, even a community of people, would be able to find enough of those runes so that one person could trade for them all and make the runeword?

    I think they'd almost have to assume that many people would be upgrading the runes via the cube, that's the only logical way to create enough runes to use the 1.10 runewords. Unless Blizzard designed to new runewords to utilize duped runes; that just sounds silly.

    So if you design the rune system to integrate lots and lots of upgrading why on earth would have a databse track all the past IDs the rune had, that's a mountain of data to collect and store. I would argue that if runes poof after they've been upgraded in the cube it has to be something else causing it; I really can't see what the benefit of tracking all item IDs, past and present, would be.
     
  15. leetserv

    leetserv IncGamers Member

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    Having some programming experience i must say i've always thought what Yerba is saying here is correct.

    One thing that might be the case however is that the new rune's ID is derived from the IDs of the items you cubed. That might explain why runes cubed by dupers poof, because they are all cubed with the exact same ID ingredients?
     
  16. Ax2Grind

    Ax2Grind IncGamers Member

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    I don't think it's fingerprints

    The only way to do that, considering we're playing on a computer, is to make the fingerprints forms of mathematical formulae. Each rune dropped, then, must be part of a unique formula unable to be duplicated by another rune drop. Several problems arise regarding this:
    • Are the formulae complicated enough to withstand both legitimate identical drops and eventual cubed fingerprints?
    • How many positions in the fingerprint exist and how many combinations exist, assuming hexadecimal?
    • Would different runes with the same fingerprint activate some protection mechanism?
    Remember, if runes have fingerprints, then the chances Els, Elds and Tirs would vanish (destroying the runeword in the process) are much more likely since they drop more, by far. I believe there's another process here, perhaps even unique to Battle.net (realm or otherwise), that's allowing them to find the dupes and dupers.
     
  17. Dystopianday

    Dystopianday IncGamers Member

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    Cubed runes don't poof. That's how all the item sellers advertise perm runes; they dupe two of one and the gem needed to cube it and cube away.

    While this might be too much of a pain for a private duper, which is where we get poofing from.

    I'm sorry, but this sort of elitist attitude isn't helping anything. We're playing in a game where duping is a reality, and we have to come to terms with that fact and try to manage it.

    I've always found that cubing possible duped HRs is too expensive to be viable. You're facing a 50% drop in wealth to assure yourself that your goldz aren't going anywhere, and in actual practice, the rate of dupes is much lower. I try not to find out, but I'd guess it's around 20% for most HRs. Moreover, I don't see why Zods and Chams would be less likely to be perm. The chances against anything above Vex being from a legit source is astronomical; either they're dupes or the fusion of dupes.
     
  18. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    I'm sorry, but this sort of defeatist attitude is exactly why duping is a reality.

    Just because duped high runes are so readily available, and dupers have made it so easy, and relatively safe, to break the rules, doesn't mean you should do it, nor should you talk down to someone who happens to have a higher set of morals than yourself (even if it is just a game).
     
  19. Rabbitz

    Rabbitz IncGamers Member

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    Morals are supposed to be applied everywhere, so was that neccesary?
     
  20. Dystopianday

    Dystopianday IncGamers Member

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    You're escaping reality in so many different ways I don't know where to start.

    First, I am in no way breaking any rules. I am trading items I have found myself for the items of others in an acceptable rate of exchange. By doing so, I am in no way responsible for their actions, or the actions of persons they may have traded with.
    I could arbitrarily say my Crown of Ages is worth, say, one Ohm rune. Which it would be, in the absence of a dupe economy. But only someone morally AND intellectually retarded would make a leap of logic like that and punish themselves for the actions of dupers. So I take my 25 Lo runes. And you would too.

    And one cannot claim to be morally superior and go ahead and do that. Having cake, eating it too, etc.

    You're proposing we not tell new players a potential way to preserve their earned wealth because it would be defeatest towards dupers? I think I'd perfer "realist". Or maybe "sane". He deserves his perm high rune. And I'm going to tell him how to keep it. I feel comfortable saying my morals > Yours.
    This I agree with - far too many people use "It's a game" or "it's the internet" as excuses to be childish dingbats.
     

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