UCLA Police Taser incident

TheOgreMan

Diabloii.Net Member
UCLA Police Taser incident

Apologies if this has been posted; I looked but saw no thread about it.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/november2006/161106taser.htm

Caution: May not be suitable for work (some foul language).

Apparently what happens is a student refused to show his ID to campus police during a random inspection. After a interrogation of sorts he said that he would vacate the library; they grabbed him, he told them to not touch him, they shocked him.

Although extremely harsh the campus police may have still been within their rights. What is terrible about the situation is that, even after being handcuffed, they continued to taser him. Not a constant shock, but every 40 seconds or so. While the student may have been being difficult taser shocks are known to slow down motor functions; so much so that the student very well may not have been able to stand. Additionally, several spectating students asked for the ID numbers of the police (which must be given when requested). One student was even threatened of being tasered for repeatedly being asking for an officer's number.

Personally, this does seem excessive. If the student did, indeed, say that he would vacate the building the police had no right to any of their actions. Also the refusal of badge numbers, threatening of taser shocks, and repeated tasers to the cuffed student need to be addressed; I hope punishment is in order for the campus police involved in that situation.
 

caddad

Diabloii.Net Member
I have a reaction to this that won't fit this forum.

If asked by authorities to do something, just ****ing do it and things like this rarely if ever escalate.

The police//security are well within their rights to ask for ID's and he's asking for trouble for not standing when asked, repeatedly I might add.

People who are difficult just to be difficult deserve to get taser'd.

-D2netDad
 
Notice how they make a big deal about this being about politics and not about some guy being an arsehat. CAIR to go nuts in 3...2...1...
 

Yaboosh

Diabloii.Net Member
I have a reaction to this that won't fit this forum.

If asked by authorities to do something, just ****ing do it and things like this rarely if ever escalate.

The police//security are well within their rights to ask for ID's and he's asking for trouble for not standing when asked, repeatedly I might add.

People who are difficult just to be difficult deserve to get taser'd.

-D2netDad

I find it very sick that you think this.



 
Mostafa Tabatabainejad. That's the guy's name. Notice what he began screaming as soon as he was tased for obstruction the officer.

Just more proof of the idiocy of far too many college kids.
 
I find it very sick that you think this.
Why? The cops asked for his ID, he refused to show it. He was being escorted out, and caused trouble. Maybe he didn't deserve to be taser'd that many times, but he didn't need to cause trouble either. He could have showed his ID and stayed peacefully, but he chose the other path.



 

caddad

Diabloii.Net Member
Sorry you feel that way Yaboosh, but this is not the way a person should conduct themselves when faced with authority. What type of person has a problem with showing a student ID? What type of person has a problem with following the rules of a building//establishment? What type of person starts screaming for attention and refusing authority when faced with it?

A person with a little more repsect for anyone but themself would've handled that situation a lot differently.

-D2netDad
 

Yaboosh

Diabloii.Net Member
To suggest that in the face of authority one must simply go along with whatever they say, and if not, face a taser, is sick.

Here, could he have avoided being tased? Well, that depends. From what I saw and read, he said he would leave and then is tased. After that, it is quite possible he lost the ability to easily stand, and for not being able to stand, he was tased repeatedly. Yes, he could have immediately left when asked for ID, but refusing ID, in my eyes, is not grounds for a tasing.

If anything, these officers are complete morons for using obviously controversial force in front of so many students. I mean, seriously, tasing him while handcuffed? Not a real smart move.
 

SaroDarksbane

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
I don't know all the details, but if all he did was refuse to show ID, then this was way, WAY, beyond acceptable behavior for a police officer. A taser is a non-lethal weapon to be used in self-defense, not to ensure compliance amongst the populace.

Ask yourself this question:

If a student refuses to show a group of campus safety officers his ID, would the officers be justified in pulling out their nigthsticks and beating the crap out of the kid?

If the answer is no, then a tasering isn't the correct course of action either. Now, if he took a swing at the officer, then I'm all for a good shocking. Heck, I'll get the popcorn.
 

TheOgreMan

Diabloii.Net Member
The student quite possibly did not have his ID on him, thus could not show it. Regardless, before even being touched he said that he would leave the building. Instead of just letting him leave they proceeded to grab him (the grabbing is what produced the initial outbursts; the officers refused to let go, he yelled). The most absurd part of the story, to me, is the repeated taserings which, in my mind, shows the lack of training (or disregard of) that the police had in the use of their tools.

One shock was more than enough to get his attention. One shock is also more than enough to cause some loss of use of his legs. With the addition of his being cuffed and restrained by the arms it would be difficult to stand up.

Now, I'm not saying the student is without blame. He should have his ID on him. If he has it he should show it.

Regardless of how the student behaved, however, the officers should have cooperated with the spectators more professionally. Threatening to taser another student for asking for his badge number is a big no-no.
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
He said he would leave for like 5 minutes. The kid was doing a lot of talking and zero leaving. The beginning is hard to see, but I find it hard to believe he went from peacefully leaving to screaming "here is your ****ing Patriot Act" in about 5 seconds.

The kid was being a total idiot and making a gigantic public disturbance.

And what was that guy doing with a video camera in there anyway? I don't take a video camera when I go to the library to work on a paper.

In regards to asking the officer for his badge number, that was douchebag move. Do you think every citizen has a right to demand badge numbers from the police at the drop of a hat? While police are in hot pursuit of a suspect or dealing with someone in a drunken stupor, are you going to go up to them and ask their badge number? That kid was poking a hornet nest and he knew it.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Oh, his name is "Mostafa Tabatabainejad". Now it makes sense.

I never saw what people who are opposed to tasers were on about, but I think I'm starting to. I support their use only as an alternative to lethal force. Not being pulled out every time a cop gets scared or pissed off.

As for this guy, that clip doesn't show the beginning of the conflict, so it's kind of hard to tell. Did he get belligerent simply when asked to show his card, or was it after the police were tasering him? In any case, while they were right to question and detain him, the constant tasering is by no means an appropriate use of force. There were how many of them, three? More than enough to frogmarch him out of there instead of tasering the **** out of him and then demanding he get up and walk himself.

And if it's true that one cop threatened to taser a student for asking to see his badge, he should lose it.

I have a reaction to this that won't fit this forum.

If asked by authorities to do something, just ****ing do it and things like this rarely if ever escalate.

The police//security are well within their rights to ask for ID's and he's asking for trouble for not standing when asked, repeatedly I might add.

People who are difficult just to be difficult deserve to get taser'd.

-D2netDad
Oh I see, so if you're not doing the right thing, it's open season on your arse. Authorities do not have carte blanche simply because you are being disobedient, that's a despicable attitude.

Sorry you feel that way Yaboosh, but this is not the way a person should conduct themselves when faced with authority. What type of person has a problem with showing a student ID? What type of person has a problem with following the rules of a building//establishment? What type of person starts screaming for attention and refusing authority when faced with it?

A person with a little more repsect for anyone but themself would've handled that situation a lot differently.

-D2netDad
That's hardly an excuse for unrestrained action on the part of the police.

To suggest that in the face of authority one must simply go along with whatever they say, and if not, face a taser, is sick.

Here, could he have avoided being tased? Well, that depends. From what I saw and read, he said he would leave and then is tased. After that, it is quite possible he lost the ability to easily stand, and for not being able to stand, he was tased repeatedly. Yes, he could have immediately left when asked for ID, but refusing ID, in my eyes, is not grounds for a tasing.

If anything, these officers are complete morons for using obviously controversial force in front of so many students. I mean, seriously, tasing him while handcuffed? Not a real smart move.
What he said.



 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
And what was that guy doing with a video camera in there anyway? I don't take a video camera when I go to the library to work on a paper.
Ooh, good point, they should've tasered him too.

In regards to asking the officer for his badge number, that was douchebag move. Do you think every citizen has a right to demand badge numbers from the police at the drop of a hat? While police are in hot pursuit of a suspect or dealing with someone in a drunken stupor, are you going to go up to them and ask their badge number? That kid was poking a hornet nest and he knew it.
Wasn't the kid asking that of one of the cops who was trying to keep the crowd at bay? He had plenty of time to tell him a number.



 
Anybody else think this is a setup? I watched the clip three times and noticed quite a few video cameras were being used. Far more than I would have expected. Couple that with what Mr. Attentionwhore was screaming and this makes me think it was staged to make the cops look bad.

Dumbarse kids. Not very bright making yourself known to the FBI through asshattery. That guy is now going to be watched until he dies in the intifada.
 

SaroDarksbane

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
Anybody else think this is a setup? I watched the clip three times and noticed quite a few video cameras were being used. Far more than I would have expected. Couple that with what Mr. Attentionwhore was screaming and this makes me think it was staged to make the cops look bad.
Yeah, I know cell phones with cameras are really rare amongst the college-aged.

/sarcasm
Dumbarse kids.
Dumbarse cops. Abusing your power because I guy in a library didn't have ID? Yeah, that's something to risk your career over.
Mostafa Tabatabainejad. That's the guy's name. Notice what he began screaming as soon as he was tased for obstruction the officer.
That guy is now going to be watched until he dies in the intifada.
Racist much?

"oh its cuz he was an ay-rab LOL"



 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Anybody else think this is a setup? I watched the clip three times and noticed quite a few video cameras were being used. Far more than I would have expected. Couple that with what Mr. Attentionwhore was screaming and this makes me think it was staged to make the cops look bad.
Hence my comment about why that kid had a video camera in the library.

Donny, that is not the time to ask the police for a badge number.

Here's what one of my cop-friends had to say about the subject:

I've had some time to read a little more of this thread.

First off personally from what I don't remember in the video if he was handcuffed or not. I think he was when it was when the video got to the scene. In that case, I wouldn't have tasered him if he was handcuffed and under control, then it shouldn't be necessary to taser someone. If he was passive resistant we would have dragged his *** out of there as fast as we could. Two cops for the most part can drag someone out easily if they want. If they start resisting and fall down, well that's their own fault.

If he was spitting and biting that might be justification enough for a taze to get him to stop. It's not a cop's job to get hurt or place themselves unnecessarily in harm's way. It's a result of that person's actions, that he's being restrained, or hit, or whatever. It's just tough to say because you're not there, you don't know all the factors, so it's easily to armchair quarterback. Have they dealt with him before? Has he been asaultive before? Was he physically larger then the officers? Was he possibly trying to reach for a weapon? There are a lot of things you have to take into consideration. That's why even video can be very misleading if you don't know all of the facts.

Brandon is right when you have a large crowd like that, you need to take charge, and you need to neutralize the disturbance right off the bat. Things can get out of hand very quickly when you have a loudmouth in a crowd because the rest of the people will feed off someone like that. A large melee with a lot of people involved sucks. Been there, done that, don't like it. That's why you take them out quickly as possible.

The kid who gets in the way by demanding to know their badge numbers, is contributing to the disturbance. His actions serve no legitimate purpose at the time except to distract the cops from removing him. If I'm dragging someone out of a place, it's not the time for some know it all to come up to me and say "I want your badge number" If I'm distracted, and the person I have cuffed gets the chance to bite me I'd be pissed. I've been bit before, kicked in the balls, punched, been thrown down stairs, and it sucks. It doesn't happen every day, but I try to minimize it as much as possible. if they are interfering with the arrest and prolong the disturbance, they get told to back the **** down, then if they refuse, they make the team.

If he really wants to know, he can go to the Campus police station, file a complaint, or do whatever they think is appropriate. Would I zap him with the taser? eh.. probably not, just for that.. It's not warranted, but if he continued with interfering with the arrest, incited any more students, or physically touched the officers, it might have been. It all depends on exactly what happens.

The problem with a place like a college campus is that you have a lot of entitled teenagers who think they are lawyers and watch too many police shows on TV and in the movies. We have a business college in the Town next to us. Alot of the off campus students rent apartments in my town, and we deal with a lot of their parties and different bull****. You don't know how many times I've heard "You can't do that" "You can't arrest me for that" "You need a warrant for that". Another favorite is "You didn't read me my rights". These kids watch some cop show and all of a sudden they are an expert in criminal procedure and constitutional law.

Well let me clue you in on something.. if the police tell you they're going to arrest you for something if you don't comply, They CAN do it and they're not bull****ting you. Every cop knows you don't threaten someone with an action if you can't carry out because that makes you look really stupid when your bluff is called.

Here's an example of how easily things can get out of hand.. One time we get a call to one of our bars for a woman refusing to leave. We have many bars in town.. More Liquor licenses per capita then all the surrounding towns in the area.

We get there, she's still there with her boyfriend, her daughter and her daughter's boyfriend. They are just outside arguing with the bartender and she's obviously hammered. I get there, I tell the woman she needs to calm down and give me some ID. She refuses and tries to walk away. Well I tell her "Lady you better come back and give me some id or I'm gonna lock you up" It's simple and to the point. Well she turns around, gives me the finger and yells "**** you piggie". So I grab her, put her in cuffs, ect.. All of a sudden, the daughter jumps on my back. Well she gets locked up and tossed in a car and while she's getting locked up the boyfriend steps in and tried to stop one of us. Well he goes and gets locked up too. While that's happening the daughter kicks out a cruiser window. I'm making it sound simple, but it was all very chaotic with people from the bar coming outside to watch. We got one person handcuffed to a cruiser bumper screaming (because he needed some stitches...)
It was a crowed parking lot with cars all over the place. Then one of the spectators started mouthing off, a friend of theirs possibly, and he was grabbed so fast and thrown in a car it made his head spin. Things like that get very dangerous if they get out of hand. There were only four of us there initially, but that could have really gotten ugly.

Also for the record. The majority of cops I know, at least vets that have been on the job for a long time. Don't really care about busting kids balls. We break up dozens of college parties throughout the year. We don't really want to arrest some 19-20 year old if they are drinking some beer. We really don't really care if they just smoked some pot either. If they have a pound of weed in a pillowcase, well that's another thing.. but we generally don't want to arrest someone and give them a record for some stupid bull**** if they're cooperative. Usually it's just a case of shutting down their party, taking/pouring out their beer, and making sure nobody is driving off. The problem is when we get a smartass in the crowd. "You can't come in here, you don't have a warrant" that's a fan favorite. That can land you or the party host in the back of a car if we're in the mood.

Getting back to the kid in the video.. It sounds like they found him there and told him to leave for whatever reason because he wasn't allowed there. If he just left it wouldn't have been a problem. I don't know what he was thinking of by causing a disturbance. Some dumb ***** kid who thinks there are no consequences to his actions.


 

Road Ratt

Diabloii.Net Member
According to the paper, Tabatabainejad did not show ID to community service officers who were conducting a random check.
Random checks/searches are inherently bad ideas as they tend to target minorities (whether by design or not), this is a policy that UCLA should seek to change.

As for the incident itself, The student was clearly acting out and causing a scene. On the other hand the officers went way over the line and had no cause to use a taser on this student multiple times. As I see it both parties are at fault and they should all receive disciplinary action over this incident.
 

caddad

Diabloii.Net Member
Oh I see, so if you're not doing the right thing, it's open season on your arse. Authorities do not have carte blanche simply because you are being disobedient, that's a despicable attitude.

That's hardly an excuse for unrestrained action on the part of the police.
If you are in violation of the rules the authorities are expected to enforce and you repeatedly refuse to comply with the authorities you deserve whatever means the law sees fit to give those authorities to use against you.

It's not about doing the right thing, it's about not being a complete moron when faced with consequences by authorities.

This reminds me of the video of the woman stopped by the highway patrolman who repeatedly refused to do what she was tasked to do and got taser'd for it. There was all this "sentimental" bull**** and uprising from the media for that too.

I don't feel sorry for this dude any more than I felt sorry for that woman.

-D2netDad


 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Donny, that is not the time to ask the police for a badge number.
That cop had plenty of time, and it's just one short number. The guy was under control and he wasn't even near him. And in any case, threatening to taser the guy is way out of line. These cops got scared and used excessive force.

I've had some time to read a little more of this thread.

First off personally from what I don't remember in the video if he was handcuffed or not. I think he was when it was when the video got to the scene. In that case, I wouldn't have tasered him if he was handcuffed and under control, then it shouldn't be necessary to taser someone. If he was passive resistant we would have dragged his *** out of there as fast as we could. Two cops for the most part can drag someone out easily if they want. If they start resisting and fall down, well that's their own fault.

If he was spitting and biting that might be justification enough for a taze to get him to stop. It's not a cop's job to get hurt or place themselves unnecessarily in harm's way. It's a result of that person's actions, that he's being restrained, or hit, or whatever. It's just tough to say because you're not there, you don't know all the factors, so it's easily to armchair quarterback. Have they dealt with him before? Has he been asaultive before? Was he physically larger then the officers? Was he possibly trying to reach for a weapon? There are a lot of things you have to take into consideration. That's why even video can be very misleading if you don't know all of the facts.

Brandon is right when you have a large crowd like that, you need to take charge, and you need to neutralize the disturbance right off the bat. Things can get out of hand very quickly when you have a loudmouth in a crowd because the rest of the people will feed off someone like that. A large melee with a lot of people involved sucks. Been there, done that, don't like it. That's why you take them out quickly as possible.
I agree with this, definitely. But not if "take out" means with a taser. There would not be an issue here if those tasers had stayed holstered, all those cops had to do is drag that guy out of there like in the old days - he'd have been gone and the situation defused.

The kid who gets in the way by demanding to know their badge numbers, is contributing to the disturbance. His actions serve no legitimate purpose at the time except to distract the cops from removing him. If I'm dragging someone out of a place, it's not the time for some know it all to come up to me and say "I want your badge number" If I'm distracted, and the person I have cuffed gets the chance to bite me I'd be pissed. I've been bit before, kicked in the balls, punched, been thrown down stairs, and it sucks. It doesn't happen every day, but I try to minimize it as much as possible. if they are interfering with the arrest and prolong the disturbance, they get told to back the **** down, then if they refuse, they make the team.
I don't agree with that - sure, if the cop really does not have the time to give him the badge number he's exactly right, but he did. That guy wasn't going anywhere by that stage. As for the second part, it's all perfectly true but not relevant.

Getting back to the kid in the video.. It sounds like they found him there and told him to leave for whatever reason because he wasn't allowed there. If he just left it wouldn't have been a problem. I don't know what he was thinking of by causing a disturbance. Some dumb ***** kid who thinks there are no consequences to his actions.
All that rather begs the question, doesn't it?



 
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