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Two tourney ideas

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Thyiad, May 27, 2008.

  1. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Two tourney ideas

    Some of the tourneys are a bit hard for those of us who are lazy *cough* so here's a couple of ideas Mungo and I were chatting about.

    These are at very early stages so input would be appreciated. :smiley:


    1. LK Provisions

    We all know you lot can finish the game in HC, in under three hours, untwinked ,with three keys and a mouse button not working. But what about making it a little easier?

    While searching LK for runes, Mungo kept finding some *really* nice stuff that while good, wouldn't get used for twinking but is better than single pass chars would find.

    Let's see how a team of two: one older character fairs when teamed with a youngster they get to equip and nurture from normal to hell Baal.


    Task

    Finish the game! This is really a nice gentle into to Tourneys.

    Each 'pair' has a specific role. The oldie is to equip the youngster from a limited number of runs in LK.


    Equipment

    Five LK runs are permitted for the older character, as the newbie starts each Act. The runs can be done in Normal, NM or Hell, irrespective of where the new character is.

    The new character can only wear what the older char finds on those runs. If you don't find a belt there, then you go without.


    Points

    One point per Waypoint/Quest.
    Five points per act completed.

    Bonuses
    Five points per act for getting every WP and Quest.
    Ten points for making a decision NOT to use something EG belt/hat *before you start running*.
    One point per unused LK run *to be declared before running*
    Ten points for not running LK at all per difficulty *to be declared before running*



    2. Beauty Contest

    Based on the Ms World Pagentry, the idea is to look gorgeous and fake everything else.

    All screenies should be *posed* not prtscreen and run.

    Points

    I was thinking about a points weighting for difficulty:
    Hell x 0.5
    NM x 0.75
    Hell x 1.25


    Tasks

    I confess that the Pics tourneys inspired me.

    1. Beauty and the Beast
    A shot of your characters' loveliness next to one of the Act Bosses.
    5 pts plus 10 bonus

    2. to 6. The Outfits
    Show off your stuff in each act, coloured to befit that act's tone.
    Act I - Green
    Act II - Gold
    Act III - Black
    Act IV - Red
    Act V - Blue
    1 point per coloured item

    7. Laughing in the face of danger
    Let's watch your pretty boy or girl stay cool when faced with *at least* two bosses or ten monsters. The more monsters/the more nasty the more points!
    Max 10 points based on difficulty/numbers

    8. For the hardcore only players

    This is to reward those who live only once. To collect the points you need to show the lowest life possible AND make it safely to your next level.
    <50 life - 5 points
    <25 life - 10 points
    <10 life - 15 points
    1 life - 25 points

    9. Career minded

    So what does your beauty want to be when they cease being beautiful?
    Let your imagination run wild here. Here's a few examples:
    Money - surround them with gold
    Work with children - flayers are close!
    Work with animals - get down with the birds
    Travel - seek out places that everyone ignores EG Abadon

    10. Naughty but nice
    This is where they all get it off to get it on in the Grand Finale! Let's see that beauty work skin deep by beating Baal ... naked.
    20 points for this and the 'weighting' above is reversed so Hell gets x 1.25 etc.
    It's possible to take part in 1-9 and then strip for this. In fact, it's encouraged. :wink2:
     
  2. jgreg7

    jgreg7 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    My preference is for tournaments where the restrictions are on gear or skills, so I won't comment on the Beauty Pageant. I'll focus on "The Apprentice". :rolleyes:

    First off, I like it! :thumbsup: I'd be in, once I kill off a current tourney character...

    I assume (or recommend) that the "elder" character has no restrictions. Any old character that the player has sitting around could be used to gather items. The only concern I have is different entrants will have different levels of MF on their elder, depending on their style (twinked vs. not, and participation in MFOs). Maybe a cap should be placed on the MF that can be used, to level the field?

    When starting a new act does the apprentice have the option of switching to new gear found by the elder, or is it mandatory that he strip naked and reequip with only new gear? If he has to get completely new gear each act that could seriously impact things like melee attack skills, but perhaps that is the point! :wink3: What about a hybrid - at the start of each act the apprentice can keep what he is currently wearing, but must clear his stash of all old gear? Or would only up to X items be carried over?

    In the scoring, the five points per act completed and five points per act for getting every WP and Quest feel redundant. I'd choose one or the other.
     
  3. pwangsta

    pwangsta IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    I think you should stipulate that the life pic must be taken in the field. Otherwise, it would be too easy to get poisoned by some wimpy monster, tp back to town, wait for your life to drop to 1, then snap the pic.
     
  4. skunkbelly

    skunkbelly IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    I like the first idea... it seems reminiscent of my own "99 Item" tournament, which was a blast.

    I had the same question about how the runs would work... here's my idea:

    For every act completed, the "new" character could keep one item at the end of the act (so one item could be kept after act 1 normal, three after act 3 normal, six after act 1 NM, etc.). Then, the "old" character would complete the five LK runs, and those new items would become available to the "new" character.

    This would make some strategy possible (if your Old character finds a Skin of the Vipermagi on the first run of the tournament, for example, you could choose to keep that item forever as one of your saved items... but it might mean you need to sell a Ribcracker to Charsi!).

    Eventually, this would mean that by the time your character reaches Hell difficulty, they should have 10 items available to them already, plus whatever the new LK runs turn up... that will make survivability a bit more reasonable.

    If you wanted to make characters throw out items after every act, then a harsher version of this rule variation would be to allow personalized items to be kept... this would give the character two "wild card" items, which would be helpful but not game-breaking. Players could save items for this honor, but would not be allowed to equip them until they were personalized.

    I also recommend a maximum permissible MF amount for the Old character, to even things out.
     
  5. Merlin The Wizzard

    Merlin The Wizzard IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    Eeeey Thyiad! I recall I once had an idea similar to the latter one, it didn't get much respsonse then though. Still it's nice. I'd be curious to hear Atil about it though, since his pics toruney at christmas was a real winner and a rightful nominee (and winner iirc) in the awards from makicek...

    Lessee... Here's an idea. Takes a bit of work on the hosts part though, and some swapping of char files.

    You pick a character. Bring it to hell. Now, send this character to all participants and tell them to do Xruns with them for each act. The participants then can decide WHICH LK to visit (Hell might NOT be a good idea for a starting char. A cryptic axe may look lovely, but is of little use to the weenie who can barely lift a two handed sword now is it?).
    So lets say you bring a meteorber to hell LK.Now, her initial equipment etc. are of course off_limits. After the tourney is over, the character can be deleted...

    This leaves everyone with the same MF etc. It also means someone who has no character in that area can still participate w/out problems. I'd make sure the 'youngster' is an equipment dependend build though,


    As for the pics tourney, I second pwangsta, but would also like to add that the picture should be taken with enemies in the screen

    As for the rest, it sounds nice enough. Not sure if I would enter, but it's certainly something I would consider...
     
  6. Reticent Drappa

    Reticent Drappa IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    The beauty contest sounds fun.
    I always enjoyed wearing cool looking gear, rather then the typical stuff. ; )
    Beating baal naked in hell mode would take a while... hmmm.. .
    ; D I'd participate.
     
  7. BobTheWarrior

    BobTheWarrior IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    I've been interested in getting started in a tourney for awhile, but the recent tournaments and my available time haven't jived.

    I really like your 1st tournament idea, LK Provisions. Unless you adopt Merlin's approach of sending a specificly made character to each participant, most of the players are going to be softcore, which is not the norm for tournaments. I don't know what your Hardcore characters look like, but I would think that one of the generous HC players around here would be willing to create a generic HC character that is in Act III hell with sufficient gear to run LK to send around.

    This brings up two questions:
    Question1: What do you consider an LK item? I assume it to mean a superchest pop, but if you mean the whole of LK, i.e. monster drops, normal popables, superchests; but not the temples or sewers.

    Question 2: If the two characters are hardcore, what happens if you kill off the LK runner on accident? This becomes important based on the answer to question 1. If I am to pop the superchests safely without killing anything, but can't retrive any items until the room is cleared, it may muddy up what I see as comming from the Superchest and what the monsters dropped.

    I'd be very interested in this tournament, whether I use my own softcore runner or am given a HC runner to help out my 1st HC character. :thumbsup:

    Ooh, thought of another question: Can the LK gold be muled over to the new character? If so, does that count as an 'item'? What about potions?
     
  8. skunkbelly

    skunkbelly IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    Hmm... I'd have to vote for allowing the LK runner to gather any item from a chest, superchest, other object, or monster in LK. That way, you'll have enough to choose from (just superchests could be a disaster), and you don't have the added worry of wondering whether an item came from a chest or monster.

    Of course, one other variable comes into play: the LK runner only has so much inventory space to begin with, so not everything that drops can be made available (most items won't fit, so you'll have to pick and choose from each run).

    Also: I'm assuming that the New character would be able to purchase potions and scrolls? And what about quest reward items (rings, Anya reward, imbues).
     
  9. jgreg7

    jgreg7 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    Merlin's idea would indeed level the playing field nicely. I also don't think a SC elder LK runner would be a problem. Most people seem to have less concerns over transferring items SC -> HC than the reverse. (Thyiad, please confirm? I don't trade, so am not up on what constitutes taint...)

    For other items, I would recommend no gold be transferred; allow potions and scrolls to be purchased by the apprentice; quest reward items are earned and so allowed (but the imbue would have to be on an item from the elder).
     
  10. Ohomemgrande

    Ohomemgrande IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    No, no, no. SC --> HC = BAD. HC --> SC is tolerated because it's already in the trade pool but a lot of people consider it very cheesy.

    The reason is that SC items have no in-game risk of loss so are "less valuable" than the HC equivalents.



     
  11. skoolbus

    skoolbus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    #1) Lots of participants in tournaments are new SP players and don't have any characters in hell, so it would preclude them from playing (which is dumb, everyone should be able to play in tournaments). I know I personally don't play hardly any SC so I don't have a SC char at LK and my HC ones all die off at some point (I'm sure there are many others in my boat) and they would be precluded from playing. Also, it isn't much of a tournament, more like playing a semi twinked HC char.

    edit: Also some people have vastly superior LK maps, and there are a lot of people that wouldn't have a clue as to if the one they're using is good, maybe give rules on how many campfires and whatnot you can have in your LK running map.

    I don't get the second one though, do you start a new character or just do all this stuff with an existing character? Most picture missions are from already created chars. Also you have two different multipliers for hell. It also seems completely subject to the whims of the tournament director. They effictively choose who wins and loses based on whatever they feel like (don't say you wouldn't be bias, if two people both had great pictures, the winner would be the one you like more). Almost all the (popular) tournaments have a set in stone scoring system so everyone knows what they need to do to get the most points. This idea won't work, because what a participant might think is the best picture ever, the director might hate, and it would be very unfair to lots. I think this is more of a fun thing that a group of people could do, but not really a tournament.
     
  12. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    I'll let Mungo chime in tomorrow; the first idea was his, the second was mine.

    Better name. :smiley:

    Correct. Any old char will do. With a cap of 250MF sounds reasonable.

    The idea was for it to be an option.

    This tourney was to be a gentle introduction to torneys, please remember that. A lot of the Tourneys are just too freaking hard (in my opinion). Yes you can make this more difficult with self-imposed restrictions (less running, having to change gear etc) but at it's broadest, it's playing the game with a twist.

    Thanks. I made the scoring up as I went along. That's the biggest part that needs input. :laugh:

    That was the idea, but I guess some people would abuse it. Nice catch.

    I'll let you thrash that with Mungo.

    I'd rather not have chars emailed around. However, if someone was totally stuck, I'm sure we could work something out. But as the idea is to encourage non-tourney players, it's likely most people could compete. Especially if it's SC or 'firm-core'.

    You're catching my intent even when I'm not typing the words. :grin:

    Anything dropping in LK above ground, including poppables.

    Hmm good question. Muuuuuuuuuuuuungo .....

    I believe gold can be transfered and potions can by purchased by the new character.

    This is an important bit to thrash out. I'd hate to see five runs with *every item hotmuled off*. Outlaw hotmuling I think.

    Correct.

    I've said that if there was a lot of problems, I'd see what we could sort out. However, I genuinely believe that *most* likely entrants to these tourneys would have older runner characters.

    I said at the beginning these were for people new to tourneys not to make it as hard as possible. Some people won't fancy them, as with any tourney idea. That doesn't make the ideas bad, it makes it unattractive to one person.

    Hence the idea of good for beginners to tournaments.

    Well considering all the LK discussion, I would have thought they'd be able to have a read around the subject. Plus this ISN'T a LK running tourney. It could have been using the Canyon of the Magi to provide items.

    I'm still debating that. Hence the input required.

    Of course they're subjective! All picture tournaments are. But if you have two shots you like you have to make a choice on the picture. Or are you suggesting Tournament Hosts are liable to pick their friends? Dear me, I think you've insulted a few previous hosts of picture tourneys there. Tut tut.


    Yes I think you're missing the point. These ideas are for new people who aren't necessarily totally driven by getting the most points. They're fun introductions. When I want to host a points-driven race only accessible to tourney veterans, I'll do so.

    Thanks so much for your constructive, positive input.

    Holy crap abuse of the Multi-quote feature!



     
  13. MukTuk

    MukTuk IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    Just a slight problem - for maximum points you'd want to do *no* LK runs at all, and as a result using no equipment. You'd end up with one character beating the game naked (or close to it), and one sitting dong nothing. Its certianly possible to beat the game naked, especially when there are no other restrictions like must be HC or whatnot.

    I just find it a bit odd that to have the best chance of winning this themed contest that you have to ignore the whole theme of it
     
  14. Sint Nikolaas

    Sint Nikolaas IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    Malice ftw?



     
  15. rickcarson

    rickcarson IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    For the LK runs idea I would suggest the following:

    (1) Have the gear on the apprentice limited to a one off drop from the mentor, of only those things that the mentor can carry, none of them can touch stash/atma.

    So here's how I view it working:
    Player levels up Senior character. Player decides to do LK runs with Senior character. Player moves all charms (and carried gold) etc to stash (to free up more room), player now makes as many LK runs (and nothing else) with Senior character until Player has filled up the Senior character's inventory.
    After say 10 runs Player is happy and has lots of gear and gold. Player then creates the Apprentice character.
    Apprentice starts a game. Senior character joins. Senior character can now dump any gold and items they are carrying (including horadric cube I guess), but cannot enter stash to pull more equipment out. Senior character then exits the game.
    Apprentice now picks up everything (and may put some things in stash to use later after levelling up), then types in /nopickup
    From this point on the Apprentice may pick up _nothing_ (not even gold or potions) off the ground* until they beat normal, and are in the nightmare rogues camp, when you can repeat the process.

    Note also that the initial gold drop is going to be limited to something like 50-60k (character can hold 10k, stash can hold 50k?), so there won't be too much difficulty reaching that limit in even normal LK runs, just pick up and sell some wands and some
    armour.

    Presumably the first runs of LK would be done in normal (otherwise the Apprentice won't be able to equip the gear till level 25+), and other runs can be done in whatever the player likes (nightmare/hell).

    This evens things out because there is just one big dump, while still providing a challenge (e.g. if you want to keep charms on the Senior character _and_ use them while running LK, that will reduce what you can drop off because your inventory will be smaller.

    Whereas for extra difficulty/cheese factor, the Senior character might run LK nekkid, using up their own gear slots to carry stuff they plan on dropping. They just couldn't run LK in full battlegear, and then swap the battlegear into the stash, and wear the low level gear for the drop off, that would break the 'no interaction with the stash' rule.

    NB: under the /nopickup rule for the Apprentice, there is zero point in giving them any MF, which will be a shock to the system* for some players I think :D And there's no point in giving them any keys either.

    *in a good way.

    (2) To standardise the Senior character, you could suggest a particular build (e.g. Must have 20 points in Frozen Orb by level 50). Ideally the Senior character should be powerful enough to run Hell LK without themselves needing godly gear (I don't do it myself, so the FO suggestion might be totally inappropriate).

    Maybe outline a build in great detail, e.g. a Trapper or a LF zon with defined skills and stats.

    Or you could have predetermined pairings, e.g. on the new character screen pick your senior partner then the junior partner is the one standing to the right of them.

    Or pick pairings that emphasise different skills sets, e.g. one is melee, the other is ranged, or a summoner.

    Also, the Senior partner should be encouraged to be as cheesy and overpowered as possible, otherwise why would anybody want to be their Apprentice?
     
  16. mwille

    mwille IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    Here's a third idea for a simple tourney. It has none of the usual skill, equipment, attribute, & merc restrictions, and yet has the possibility of still being challenging. There would be only 3 major rules. The first 2 are common to most tourneys. However, the 3rd limits the one thing that is almost always left unrestricted.

    1. Single pass only
    2. Untwinked
    3. Must play on /players 1 for everything except the level (or area) where the act end bosses are, which will be played at /players 8. (The REAL tomb would count as the area for act 2.)

    Along with a simple scoring system of WP + Quests - clvl - #deaths, I think this would make a good one for those just starting to play tournaments.



     
  17. pwangsta

    pwangsta IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    I dunno, mwille. Personally, I don't think I'd ever make it out of Act 2 if I faced Duriel at level 20-ish on /p8, which is what would happen according to your rules.
     
  18. mwille

    mwille IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    It wouldn't be hardcore, so it wouldn't be a 1-shot thing. I said it would still be a challenge, just not so restricted like most other tourneys. Being a few levels lower than usual (but with no restrictions), it should still be possible.

    I'm used to playing some pretty restricted characters, so my judgement may be biased. It was just an idea for something simple.



     
  19. sequoia

    sequoia IncGamers Member

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    Re: Two tourney ideas

    I think you could tweak the HC contest a little bit.

    Consider that while the "laugh in the face of danger" should be for fun and simply count the number of silly monsters around the character, you could count the HC character based on the amount of danger it is in.

    Counting HP is a bit iffy, since one could get poisoned, go to Act 1 normal and stand between some Normal monsters and look cool.

    Rather, you should require the automap on (to show difficulty) and rate the imminent danger the character is in. 50 HP in act 1 around 80 fallens versus 300 HP surrounded by 4 Frenzytaurs and 3 Gloams with conviction for example... who should be the real winner?

    EDIT:

    Above, someone pointed out that experienced runners would probably play this without any twinking whatsoever, and do just fine. Rather, to fit the theme, you should REQUIRE the lower character to use the gear found by the elder character. The elder can pop as little or as many as it wants, but the lower character should be required to have every piece of gear found in their inven screen, whether socketed, worn, or placed in the cube. Obviously for each set of LK runs the previous set of found gear no longer has to be horded.

    But at least this way, the theme of LK running is apparent when the character has to carry 10 charms it is too low level to use, for example. Seems funny, you could call it the pack-rat tourney.
     

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