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"Twinked by Untwinked" (Sept) - Planning & Progress

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by ffs, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    So I started this thread recently about building a Zealot/FoH Paladin that only uses items found on my untwinked 99er characters, a Lightning Sorc currently at ~98.7 and a Fishymancer currently at 93. Now I've been thinking about it some more, and figured while I'm joining the project/theme crowd, I might as well go for a sept with this "twinked by untwinked" approach as a long-term side project.

    The general ideas are

    (1) to make the most use of cool/rare items found exclusively by untwinked characters,
    (2) at least try and incorporate an element with each class that I never used before, while
    (3) hopefully keeping the characters strong at the same time. Don't really like "fun builds" that can't kill anything. ;)

    To the extent possible, I want to build them around one or two "core items", i.e. rare S&Us, good rares or crafts that I thought were special. For the characters that are going to be using Enigma or Infinity, these items will be shared among them and/or borrowed from my untwinked 99ers. They farmed many runes, but not that many. :) Apart from that however, I intend to use each item on only one character. I've also rolled enough CtAs to give one to each character.

    As mentioned in the thread linked above, this will not be started with full throttle immediately. But again I thought I'd go ahead and create this thread to have it ready to go back to. I will also update this post regularly once started, or if I change my mind about any class. :p

    With that out of the way, these are the rough outlines of what I have in mind currently:


    #1 - Paladin:
    Link to thread
    Build: Zeal/FoH hybrid.
    Enigma: Yes
    Infinity: Yes
    Core items:
    • eth Death Cleaver (271 ed) for Zeal
    • Zod to go in the eth DC
    • 2/20 amulet as part of a 125% FCR teleport/caster switch.
    Posted details about him in the thread linked above. Basically full focus on physical damage to make the most out of the DC, but with the ammy I'll be going for 125% FCR for fast teleport on switch. Since that will be achieved with stuff like Hoto and Spirit, I'll try and use FoH (which I've never used) as a PI solution. Merc will probably be Infinity if it works out, to make FoH viable and also help with AR.


    #2 - Druid:
    Build: Fire/Summons
    Enigma: No
    Infinity: Yes
    Core items:
    • Ravenlore (-13)
    • Earth Shifter. YES. :)
    • Faith on switch
    Need to use Earth Shifter at some point! The idea is to use Faith on switch to help summons vs FIs, since I have a nice 14%ed Shadow Bow base ready for it. Focus will be on fire skills though, to make use of numerous Elemental skillers found.

    EDIT: I gave this some more thought and will maybe take a different route. Even with a -req jewel in Earth Shifter, statting for both Earth Shifter and Faith in Shadow Bow is really quite inconvenient. I prioritize the Earth Shifter of course, so he might end up borrowing the low-req Beast from my untwinked Necro instead of Faith. That would mean he can't really be part of much fighting vs. FIs, but I think I want to stick with the Fire/Summon approach instead of going melee/shapeshift with the Earth Shifter. I'll try with Faith and see if I can get high enough life still, and otherwise might still go with Faith Merc for the FA Zon below.


    #3 - Necromancer:
    Build: TO Fire Ball/Poison Dagger
    Enigma: Not decided yet
    Infinity: Not decided yet
    Core items:
    • Mang Song's Lesson
    • Blackbog's Sharp/TO shield on switch vs FIs
    Always wanted to utilize FB/FW from TO set, and never used Poison Dagger, so this seems to make sense... @DiabloTwoinDC made a character with the Fire bonus from TO and Mang Song's recently and I again thought that sounds like fun, even though now this one will feel a bit like a copy-cat. :) Unfortunately, it had to be the -EFR on Mang Song's that rolled low at -8 EFR (14/15 rolls on the other elements). There are a few decent fire facets available to work with though.


    #4 - Assassin:
    Build: Kicker/Trapsin
    Enigma: Yes
    Infinity: Yes
    Core items:
    • Amazing rare circlet: +2 Sin/20% FCR/5% life steal/[email protected] (46 FR)/48 life
    • Stormlash switch for kicking
    • Hoto/Spirit on trap switch
    Not too crazy a build here. It will be fun to use traps, again due to the high amount of skillers found on my untwinked journey. And obviously I need to make use of my first ever Stormlash. So K/T it is. Stormlash rolled a terrible 241 ed, but it will do as it will be used for CB vs LIs/single targets mostly.


    #5 - Amazon:
    Build: FA/Strafer
    Enigma: No
    Infinity: No
    Core items:
    • Ice GMB
    • Windforce on switch
    • Nightwing's Veil (+15% CSD)
    Played FA Zon before using M'avina's set which is a lot of bang for the buck, but I've always wanted to try with Ice. It's maybe a tiny bit disrespectful to find a WF and use it only partially ;) but there just wouldn't be much novelty to it for me at all if I focused on physical damage with her. Also again considering skillers, found a few Bow/Crossbow ones that come in handy for FA. Will use either Insight Merc to be able to spam FA or Faith Merc, depending on how mana upkeep works out. In case of Faith Merc, she will use the same Faith made for the Druid (apart from Enigma/Infinity, this would then be another exception to the approach of using each item on only one character).

    EDIT: I decided to go with 'Ice' in Mat Bow in the end because of more convenient IAS breakpoints for her envisaged setup (see post below). Still not sure about armor. Probably not going with CoH as I don't want to spend more HRs on her than necessary, but Viper, Gloom, Treachery, Smoke, Peace all seem to be very good low cost options.


    #6 - Barbarian:
    Build: Frenzy/Throw
    Enigma: No
    Infinity: No
    Core items:
    • Azurewrath (267 ed) + Grandfather (248 ed) off-hand for Frenzy
    • 2x Lacerator on switch for Double Throw
    This one is going to be pretty standard Frenzy mostly. But I never made a throw barb and would like to mess around with that at least a little bit, also never really used Grandfather and Azurewrath. I'm afraid he'll just end up using Frenzy most of the time, but the Lacerators will hopefully be put to use periodically for the AD.


    #7 - Sorceress:
    Build: Dragon/Zeal Enchantress
    Enigma: No
    Infinity: No
    Core items:
    • Dragon Armor
    • Passion PB
    Not really interested in a caster Sorc, also no truly unique Sorc finds (apart from a beautiful 15/19 Griffon's Eye, which however is already in use on my untwinked 99er Sorc). So I wanted to go melee. I've played a dual Dream Bear Sorc before and really enjoyed her, but none with Passion so far. While the Dragon variant will be weaker than Dreams, I've always wanted to build it as well, and of course it's cheaper on the rune side. I'll probably go single Dragon + Stormshield with her.

    EDIT: Decided to go double Dragon in AP and Troll Nest (see last post on this page) as I've come to think about how single Dragon would not add any meaningful damage at all, but did want to use it so...


    ***

    That's about the planning as of now. I hope I'll be able to get to this project some time late spring/early summer.

    Any suggestions, ideas for improvements or other comments are most welcome! :)
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
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  2. drmalawi

    drmalawi IncGamers Member

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    Looks cool man! I like to mix up twinked and untwinked chars too :)

    How will you deal with fire immunes with Dragon Enchantress?
     
  3. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    I was planning to just rely on Crushing Blow and Merc for FIs. Not too sure about the rest of her gear yet, that's why I'll probably play her last. The order above corresponds to my order of motivation as well and thus probably also the order in which I'll build them. :)
     
  4. Jocular

    Jocular IncGamers Member

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    Ooh, ooh, the double throw/frenzy combo is really fun! I recommend using a combination of warshrike+lacerators, you proc so often it really isn't necessary to wear two. But if they're just there to proc then no reason not to wear two.

    For my frenzy/throw barb I didn't use a frenzy switch, I just used the throwing weapons for frenzy as well. It's a really fun flow of combat to switch between frenzy and double throw. The increased attack speed from frenzy is just too good not to use with double throw, your DPS really jumps.

    I had frenzy on right click, and double throw on left. If you happen to find a totally sweet rare throwing axe you can swap that in instead of warshrike and pump axe mastery to increase your frenzy damage. Same goes for a nice javelin-class weapon for spear mastery, but of course that doesn't help the lacerator's damage unfortunately.

    Here's a video that I leaned on heavily while making mine. It's so in-depth (and lacking that mod) that I've wondered if they're part of this forum...

     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
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  5. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Sounds cool. Looking forward to reading more !!!
     
  6. drmalawi

    drmalawi IncGamers Member

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    @Jocular that dude in the YT clip has some dope builds! He do not use the runeword mod either so it is very impressive!
     
  7. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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  8. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    @Jocular Yeah that guy's videos are entertaining, I've watched a few. Don't think he's around here but he mentioned the forum a few times so probably lurking a bit. ;) You're right one Lacerator should be enough to proc AD, and War Shrike is available also, and in particular two eth Demon's Arches I thought about using for the stylish eth/replenish. But it just wouldn't serve any purpose at all when using mainly Frenzy with the swords. :) I'll have to see how the gameplay goes though, maybe the throw switch will be put to use apart from proccing AD, in that case I'll go through my options again.

    @maxicek Oh I've read it, great read and I definitely thought about hitting with the big stick as well. :) But I wanted to focus on fire skills with just a backup FI solution, and wanted to use summons for that as I've never done it. Never played a Faith/Summons build so need to tick that off the list! Might change my mind though and indeed go with Shapeshifting if it turns out it doesn't work well...
     
  9. Grape

    Grape IncGamers Member

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    I'm definitely happy you decided to start this project. With your knowledge/items/skills, this will be entertaining for sure!

    I'll be cheering and try to give ideas along the way. Now that you've started this, you'll see yourself thinking about possible builds all the time while checking your drops, especially if there's something with big potential. Quite likely some big drop/craft etc. can change some of these char's path totally, and that's the cool thing about this. Nice concept :)
     
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  10. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Zod God's seal of approval = all I need. ;)
     
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  11. T72on1

    T72on1 IncGamers Member

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    Ok, then I'll take his blessing for the second round of RFL as well :p :rolleyes:
     
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  12. Jocular

    Jocular IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, he's one of the few youtube D2 uploaders that I've found to be both knowledgeable and actually enjoyable to listen to.
     
  13. drmalawi

    drmalawi IncGamers Member

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    @ffs has some dope stuff there aswell and also @Kitteh :D

    Would be fun to see your barb in action
     
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  14. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Quickly went through my untwinked stashes to see what I still have to farm for this project (if I stick with the above gearing choices).

    Regarding the FA Zon, I thought my untwinked Fishymancer found a 4os +3 GMB during RFL round 1, but it was actually on the (super twinked) Javazon that ran half a 20h set after that. :/ For some reason I thought maybe I could get lucky in one cow run, and it's funny how the game sometimes delivers instantly.

    Screen Shot 2018-04-20 at 19.48.15.png

    I consider that a good sign! Not superior, but I'll take it.

    Right now I can only make either Faith or Ice, so the final piece is one Jah (or equivalent) and I'm good to go with the above list, unless I decide I need another CoH or an extra Fortitude or something. Should be perfectly doable, worst case some extra LK running.

    So, time to finish RFL and the remaining 25-30 hours on my 99er Sorc, and get to this before the weather keeps me from playing at all. ;)
     
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  15. Jocular

    Jocular IncGamers Member

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    Jeez, nice drop!

    Your resistances are scary :confused:
     
  16. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Now that HelpYourself is done and hit 99, I started to take first steps in order to get this project going.

    I will play the Amazon first, and probably just update everthing in here instead of individual threads for each character in order to not spam the forums that much. ;) So, I started out by double-checking IAS breakpoints, and decided to go with an 8% ED Matriarchal Bow for her Ice over the GMB:

    Screen Shot 2018-05-01 at 12.16.41.png Screen Shot 2018-05-01 at 12.16.51.png

    Nice CSD roll! ED is rather low but that doesn't matter. ;)

    So why the Mat Bow over the GMB?

    First reason is physical damage is not that important aside from Mana leech for Freezing Arrow. I have a pair of 3/10 gloves available for use that she will use most likely, and together with HLW and the 20% of Ice she will be running with 50% IAS. With a Mat Bow, that means she will hit 9 fpa FA without Fanaticism (42% breakpoint), and 7 fpa (48% breakpoint) if I should choose to go with Faith Merc. The GMB breakpoints on the other hand are not that convenient for her envisaged setup: With a 13+ aura Faith Merc, 48% would put her at a nice 8 frames also, but 7 frames is out of reach at 95% IAS, and I didn't want to lock her into having to use a Faith Merc. Without Fanaticism, even the required 56% IAS for a lackluster 10 fpa would require the use of other gear (in particular gloves), with lower FA damage in the end.

    Second reason is that she will use Windforce on switch using Strafe, delivering both Mana leech and Knockback. The latter is much more useful while Strafing than for FA anyway, so I think this setup should work out well (instead of having to craft Knockback gloves and hope for IAS, + skills and ideally Mana leech). The Windforce will conveniently hit the 46% IAS breakpoint for 5/3/3/3/8 Strafe at 50% IAS. Thus it doesn't need to be socketed with IAS, and allows me to go with an ED/min damage jewel in it.

    I think this enables the most flexibility for her, and the option to choose between Insight, Infinity and Faith for Mercs.

    I am still not sure which armor she will use. I'm leaning towards upped Viper 'Um' (cheapo CoH as I don't want to spend more HRs on her than necessary) or Smoke, but maybe Treachery to hit a higher IAS BP, or a random socketed armor (or Peace even :D). Will have to see how her survivability turns out especially.

    Looking forward to leveling her!
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
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  17. Grape

    Grape IncGamers Member

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    Good choice with the Matriarchal Bow! That's what I did for my 'Ice' as well :)
     
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  18. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Went through the rune stash of my 99er Sorc to see what else I can make with them for this project. There are a couple of Surs and Los left, so that brings me to the Sorc.

    Considering aura stacking and Holy Fire damage scaling, it seems the originally envisaged single Dragon setup doesn't make much sense (but rather either 2 Dragons or none at all).

    @Grape, I've realized you've done something similar to what I have in mind. Was the fire damage from double Dragon worth it at all for you? Otherwise I'm considering taking a different route with her entirely..
     
  19. Grape

    Grape IncGamers Member

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    Yes, at least I liked that build a lot in general. I achieved nice fire damage, and Dragons made an impact big enough, but yeah - probably one isn't that much alone...
     
  20. ffs

    ffs IncGamers Member

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    Well, runes are there to have fun with them right? Sorc stuff:

    Screen Shot 2018-05-03 at 21.31.13.png Screen Shot 2018-05-03 at 21.31.44.png Screen Shot 2018-05-03 at 21.36.01.png

    The AP will mean a couple more strength points spent than necessary, but I wanted to go for a less leathery look for a change ;) and of course this project is not about min-maxing anyway! Also I might want to try a full Auradin with these at some point, and he definitely needs a shiny armor. :p

    As for the remaining gear for her, I'll try to get some CB (for FIs), FHR and 63% FCR on switch for decent teleport, if it's not too much of a stretch. This is what I currently have in mind:

    - Guillaume's Face 'Shael'
    - Dracul's Grasp - love them for Bear Sorc and don't see how this won't get frustrating otherwise ;) but means lower IAS of course...
    - Maras or craft amulet: +2 Fire/10 FCR/life/mana/[email protected]
    - Arach
    - Gores (possibly Treks if I can't get good enough FHR from charms and GFace alone)
    - Raven
    - some other ring (BKWB or rare with whatever may be lacking, FCR if using Mara's)

    - Switch: CtA/Spirit

    The alternative route would be to go for a higher Zeal BP (e.g. HLW and 20% IAS gloves would mean 3.28 instead of 2.84 attacks per second), but sacrificing a lot of convenient stats. We'll see, recommendations most welcome of course!
     
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