trying to avoid playing paladin

Superhal

Diabloii.Net Member
trying to avoid playing paladin

I don't like paladins. i tried twice in 3 years. the first time, i thought the sprite just looked dumb. the 2nd time, for the .10 hammerdins, i thought he casted the hammer using the Pheobe dance. you know, the dance pheobe does at the beginning of every episode of friends. that did it. i made him a mule, and not a very good mule either.

so, i played with my sorcs, barbs, and necros. barbs got a pretty heavy nerf, with nothing to balance it, so my ww barb has to stock up on resist eq. my sorc is somewhat better, but with the new skill rules, she also has to depend on eq for defense. my necro has no worries and uses full mf eq, but can't do much other than a5 su's, because his biggest nemesis is a sharp turn. yep, a sharp turn. one sharp turn and his entire army goes Bush on him. (i don't have enigma armor yet.)

it's not bad, doing a5 su's, but they tend to get boring. i get about 1 unique every 2-3 hours or so, maybe 3-4 set items with @500 mf. i find myself thinking of a specialized build just for boss killing.

my favorite .09 mf char was my meteor/dr sorc. tp for speed, storm/shako for dr, tal's ammy/armor/belt for resists/mf, max block. she only had about 400% mf, but she could kill anything, usually without breaking a sweat. i used her for nithalak runs.

but, in .10 (i only play ladder, my .09 chars have expired,) find myself thinking of the 6 item boss drops again, and the best way to do them. i have searched the forums for a while, but nothing came up. from my experience, a boss-runner needs some key characteristics:

1. speed: 1 run per 1-2 minutes, 5 at max. this excludes duriel, baal and diablo off the bat. the rest can be found quickly with some teleport.

2. resists: enough to survive tp'ing past a whole bunch of enchanted bosses and gloams.

3. distance: the ability to control the movement or range of the opponent.

4. mf: imho, an mf char should have at least 300 mf. i think i can hit this easily with armor (wealth or 4 ptopz), head (harle), boots (war travs) and charms. i have 2 ists waiting for an ali baba already, so i should be covered here.

5. power: related to the speed rule, the char should have enough power to do a boss quickly. there's no point to get to a boss in 10 seconds if it takes you 10 minutes to kill it.

6. self-sufficiency: this char should not go through belts and belts of pots per run. related to the distance rule, this char should have some way to regen mana if it can stay away and not worry about health.

what really burns me, as i made these ideas, is that a hammerdin meets all these conditions perfectly:

1. speed: vigor helps BH, easy to get a tp item.

2. resists: stupid shields.

3. distance: can go melee or ranged.

4. mf: can use the resist aura for getting past random bosses, switch at the boss, makes for more space for mf items.

5. power: BH is unaffected by boss resist/immunity.

6. self-sufficiency: might be able to get by with meditation, some damage-to-mana, or a limited number of pots because of 5.

my next best idea is a hydra/dr/block/energy shield sorc:

1. speed: tp

2. resists: very weak here. i have to double check, but if energy shield still absorbs elemental damage, there's a chance.

3. distance: probably strongest point. for andariel, this sorc can stay near the stairs and tp/hyrda andariel on the other side. also good for the moat trick on meph.

4. mf: limited here because of +to mana, blocking shield, resist eq. i'm hoping for just over 300 after silkweaves, frostburns, caster rings.

5. power: another weak point. if i use points for energy shield and one of the frozen armors, this leaves hydra that much weaker.

6. self-sufficiency: another weak point. my old sorc also pounded pots in favor of speed. hydras are not cheap to cast either. max block means more dex and less energy/con.

right now, i don't have the "perfect" eq for any 1 character. enigma might tempt me to use my necro for boss duty, but he has terrible resists, power, distance, and self-sufficiency.

so, my question is: based on my criteria, what would be a good non-paladin build for boss-busting? barbs are pretty much eliminated because they almost always have to fight at melee range, a huge minus. i've never played an assassin or druid. my necro experience is limited to my current ce/summoner hybrid and a skelemancer during beta (maybe a p&b necro with a tp item?) i don't like to use zons for mf because of power (no good single mob killing skill) and self-sufficiency (their most effective skills are expensive to use.)
 

Frost-X

Diabloii.Net Member
you've got to have very godly items for easy mf runs pally.
If u depend on wizardspike and has no enigma then ur pally is going to be slow in mf although he may be able to survive.
 

YomoKimyata

Diabloii.Net Member
You think the Phoebe dance is good, make a Leaper barb and shift-enter at your feet while Leaping. Knocks back all your enemies, but you look like one of the Lords of the Dance.

back on topic, I have resisted making a paladin all through 1.09 and 1.10 so far, but I keep finding godly paladin items, so I am going to have to capitulate.
 

Superhal

Diabloii.Net Member
Drukqs said:
The Phoebe Dance :lol:
I didn't read the rest, just found that amusing :p

-Drukqs-
also what irritates me is that he shakes his butt too. why on earth would he shake his butt? is that where the hammer comes out from?
 

Superhal

Diabloii.Net Member
Frost-X said:
you've got to have very godly items for easy mf runs pally.
If u depend on wizardspike and has no enigma then ur pally is going to be slow in mf although he may be able to survive.
on the 2nd pally i mentioned, i found a 4 socket normal pally shield with resists, put in 4 pdiamonds. it has 109 all res. sick.

there's also a wide array of pally scepters with + skills. i was going to use the holy water sprinkler, but it expired.

good news though, as i was trying to revive my old meteorb sorc, she found an ali baba. :)
 

Superhal

Diabloii.Net Member
i was doing some research, i might go with a p&b necro based on the PVP build, if i can get some marrowalks. does the marrowalk bug still work?

by the same criteria:

1. speed: tp amulet
2. resists: probably wiz spike/pdiamond shield on the switch for tp
3. distance: can control distance with golem or moat trick
4. mf: might be able to pack it on if wiz/pdiamond can support res.
5. power: bone spirit + synergies seems servicable.
6. self-sufficiency: probably low here, can't think of any mana regen items that wouldn't displace mf eq.
 

octa24

Diabloii.Net Member
hammerdin is pretty much unstoppable if it has enigma and perfect resist. best character for mf, imo. the only decent pally i've made. not interested in making foh cos it seems to be a boring and weak character to level. :scratch:

since patch i've been avoiding to make any melee character , except dual claw assa. it's fun to play assassin and i don't have to spend alot to buy assa gears.
 

Drukqs

Diabloii.Net Member
octa24 said:
hammerdin is pretty much unstoppable if it has enigma and perfect resist. best character for mf, imo. the only decent pally i've made. not interested in making foh cos it seems to be a boring and weak character to level. :scratch:

since patch i've been avoiding to make any melee character , except dual claw assa. it's fun to play assassin and i don't have to spend alot to buy assa gears.
I'm currently leveling my new MF-Hammerdin, he looks very promising
Although aiming the Hammers can be tricky/annoying...

-Drukqs-
 

Danembont

Banned
Just to note, BH is resistable as it's magic damage, but yeah, I don't think any bosses you'd MF have any magic damage. Strange thing with Hammerdins, they were great in classic because of a bug, then got nerfed to variant status in 1.08. They weren't actually that bad, I don't know why they didn't get played. Then they benefited the most from the synergies in 1.10 and are now awesome.

Btw, interesting to see you're still here Superhal. Heh, I actually had the impression that you were banned at one point but obviously that was wrong. You won't remember me, trust me.
 

Superhal

Diabloii.Net Member
i don't want pallys! i want non-pallys!

i was banned for a while but it disappeared when they redid the forums.

i get bored playing after i'm rich, everything expires, i play again. i'm waiting for the next ladder reset.
 

FattyMcGee

Diabloii.Net Member
For meph/andy/pind runs only:

BLIZ SORC. Can tele (w/o enig), can hold tons of mf items, can attack at a distance as well as completely freeze enemies (gs), meph dies in like 3 blizzards. They can't be beat for pure speed and mf capabilities for those bosses.

If you want to be more versatile, and do pit runs and baal runs as well, go with a meteorb sorc (though you'll use fireball most, so it's a misnomer). Can tele w/o enig, tons of mf, my lvl 90 meteorb sorc on ladder has 451% mf, and does baal + meph runs in 6-7 minutes every game. pind is 30 seconds or less, pit runs are under 5 minutes. These chars can mf anything, and do it at good speeds too. and its' NOT A PALLY!!! :drool:


Also, since your'e going with a sorc don't use an ali baba. use an isted occy: 80% mf, and the killing speed will greatly make up for the lack of more mf. My sorc already has 450% mf.... with a 2isted ali she'd get 520% mf but lose a lot of killing speed (even if it's on switch) and defensive capabilities (+20 vit + energy +res on occy, etc.). the difference in finding items from 450% mf to 520% is virtually nothing, especially with the increased diminishing returns of 1.10.




gogo mf sorc.

--fatty
 

Superhal

Diabloii.Net Member
i messed around with my bh pally. man he sucks. i just remembered another reason why i hate them: aiming. not only is bh a pain in the butt to aim, but mobs are always in a different place on the server than my screen.

blizz sorc sounds good, i used to have one in beta. 3 blizzes for meph?? what damage does yours do?
 

Yeoldsnake

Diabloii.Net Member
Here are some ideas I have considered.

You could concentrate on a leap barb, at lvl 20 with lvl 20 leap its 870% to your damage. He could use fast run, and howl to make the enemies get out of his way.

You could try a nec, with fast run/walk and terror to just run past all the enemies. You could put a crushing blow weapon on your merc in this situation and I herd it'll take down the bosses quickly.

You could try a assassin, with cloak of shadows to stop sticky situations, dragon flight to tele somewhat, and dragon talon with crushing blow to deal with the boss. With dragon talon all the way up and some points into burst of speed those kicks go real quick.

Thats all just theoretical, I don't make many mf chars.
 

Any1

Banned
Superhal said:
I don't like paladins. i tried twice in 3 years. the first time, i thought the sprite just looked dumb. the 2nd time, for the .10 hammerdins, i thought he casted the hammer using the Pheobe dance.
Your reason for not playing Paladins seems to be as much about the graphical redering as the actual game play. Hammerdins are extremely over-powered and thus painfully lame.

I play Paladins almost exclusively since the early days of D2C. They're great fun. IMHO, the most versatile character in the game. If you want a fun build try one of the half dozen Ranger (Paladin with a bow) builds.

One more thing, try and avoid "Friends", it rots the mind. :howdy:
 
Let me explain to you my favorite character

lvl 87 zealot

Equip.

perfect 40/15 gaze or I can switch to shako for mf
Enigma
Botd Eth Zerker
Eth Exile or 4 isted monarch
Dracules or perf chancies
primarily nos coil or goldwrap
Rings vary, cgrip, soj, perfect manald, 10% fcr rings
Whatever the unique war boots are I forget or war travs for mf

On "w" I can switch to wiz spike and lidless accompany this with enigma and you have one fast mother F*&%ing tanking mfer.

I know these items may sound expensive but you can get the same effect with lesser items. Except enigma that is kinda required, cause using a teleport charge kinda gets expensive to repair. But to replace the ability to charge the paladin has a nifty skill called charge which all you need to do is hold shift and click where you want to run. Than just keep a mana pot or simply just attack a few monsters and you got all your mana back.
 

toogreen

Diabloii.Net Member
Hey , why not do with a Wind Druid. Use Cyclone Shield for elemental dmg, so that leaves slots open for high mf items. Im currently making one right now.
 

ssmsdb

Diabloii.Net Member
FattyMcGee said:
For meph/andy/pind runs only:

BLIZ SORC. Can tele (w/o enig), can hold tons of mf items, can attack at a distance as well as completely freeze enemies (gs), meph dies in like 3 blizzards. They can't be beat for pure speed and mf capabilities for those bosses.

If you want to be more versatile, and do pit runs and baal runs as well, go with a meteorb sorc (though you'll use fireball most, so it's a misnomer). Can tele w/o enig, tons of mf, my lvl 90 meteorb sorc on ladder has 451% mf, and does baal + meph runs in 6-7 minutes every game. pind is 30 seconds or less, pit runs are under 5 minutes. These chars can mf anything, and do it at good speeds too. and its' NOT A PALLY!!! :drool:


Also, since your'e going with a sorc don't use an ali baba. use an isted occy: 80% mf, and the killing speed will greatly make up for the lack of more mf. My sorc already has 450% mf.... with a 2isted ali she'd get 520% mf but lose a lot of killing speed (even if it's on switch) and defensive capabilities (+20 vit + energy +res on occy, etc.). the difference in finding items from 450% mf to 520% is virtually nothing, especially with the increased diminishing returns of 1.10.




gogo mf sorc.

--fatty
I've seen a couple posts like this,claiming that they can run Baal,I have a pure Orb sorce, full Tals set,Soj,Wartravelors and Rhym'd tower shield,on switch for tping I have a Spike and Lidless,This char has absolutely no problem running Andy and Meph but im looking to find some higher end equipment,so this brings me to the possibility of a sorce that can run Andy,Meph aswell as Baal ( on this particular sorce,I would be useing my current setup ) I play HCL,so with this in mind,Is the Meteorb sorce suited for this task.

Scott
 
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