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Troubles with LI (javazon)

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by steuntron, Jul 13, 2008.

  1. steuntron

    steuntron IncGamers Member

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    Troubles with LI (javazon)

    Hi

    My HC javazon is currently lvl78 and I have decided to go to hell.

    I have max resist, 1300life, 75% block, ... so I should be able to survive.

    I figured out that my main problem would be the lightning immunes. usually I avoid these and walk around them. But maggot lair is frustrating. Large rows of lightning immunes take about 20minutes to get through.

    I tried all this (Read about this in threads on this forum)

    1: blade with lvl2 lower resist charges: Not as effectives as i've hoped, too expensive repair costs

    2: jab! I had to add IAS gear and some AR. But i hardly hit anything. I got 2600AR. I should need like 5K-6K for a effective jab.

    3: Wildwitch string bow. (I even wasted 5 points in bow skilltree) -> no damage

    :(

    What can I do? It's impossible to finish maggot lair like this

    thanks in advance
     
  2. ironpaw

    ironpaw IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    Are you for real? Haven't progressed to Hell yet, but if you can't hit anything with 2600AR, or with a WWS, I have no idea how my hybrid zon is going to survive...


     
  3. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator & Inc Clan Officer

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    get some - to enemy lit resist. Griff's, Infinity on your merc, etc. Use Thunderstrokes, even for the LI's. Switch all that stuff out when you see them and then go back to your original gear once their dead.
     
  4. steuntron

    steuntron IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    I managed to get to act4 with help from a cold sorc (all that in just 4 hours!)

    The cold sorc had the same problem as me, he was unable to kill cold immunes.

    I just guess it's a nearly impossible task to finish hell solo without proper gear. You need to team up :)
     
  5. sneakytails

    sneakytails IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    Unless you are rolling in some serious uber gear you are not likely to solve this problem 100%

    But by specializing in the lightning tree this is your outcome here. Especially in the post 1.10 d2lod world. You have tremendous killing speed but there are things that will really tear you up and slow you down. (LI/PI immunes and LI immunes) This game is tough in Hell.

    I also have a HC javie in Hell, but its different for us HC players. We only have one life. This makes things completely different than SC situations/playstyle, or at least it should.

    If you want to Jab LI monsters then have the highest damage javelins and attack speed you can. Crushing blow also helps speed things up a bit. You can gamble decent rare javelins or find them easy enough. If you can get your hands on titans revenge then so much the better.

    Chance to cast amp damage is also a possibility here. esp with faster attack speeds.

    Also don't forget about your merc. Get him the highest damage weapon you can while still having life leech and ctc amp damage. Im talking about a act two defiance merc here. He will stay alive much longer and therefore kill better and the aura will help you survive much better in hell. A decent merc will help your killing speed against LI monsters. A high level valk will as well if you put points into that skill.

    Damage reduction gear on you and your merc will also help with staying alive. aim for about 50 in hell. 25 minimum. Jabbing takes longer. This means taking more hits.

    The problem with jabbing is the physical immune/lightning immune monsters.
    without a third type of damage coming from somewhere these will be exceedingly difficult. A LI/PI unique monster with nasty auras/elemental mods even more difficult, borderline suicide to jab in HC.

    Other ideas:
    1. Could try the cold skills via the bow tree(bow/jav hybrid). This could mean a rebuild however if you are lacking points. Viable but slow and mana intensive like LF. Also slightly gear dependent for best killing speed.
    2. Find a decent elemental damage javelin type weapon (fire/cold/poison) supplement this weapon with charms or other elemental damage gear. This is hard to do in hell/HC and still have max resists and high life/block.
    3. Party with another damage type character (fire/cold/poison)
    This works very well. My Lightning/javie played perfectly with my brothers freezing arrow bowazon. I like this approach best.

    When jabbing have slow missiles handy. Ranged attacks hurt when you are pinned down whilst jabbing.

    I am sure that there are other solutions but they involve uber gear and are not a viable solution for a HC character that does not keep a warehouse stocked with this stuff. The problem is the uber gear approach is the most commonly suggest solution. Oh yeah just get griffs and some rainbow facets...blah blah blah. I have played SP for many years and have never seen half this stuff. Most peeps never do.

    perhaps someone else has some more creative ideas.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  6. steuntron

    steuntron IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    Thanks for that amazing post!

    I'm going to switch my holy freeze merc for a defiance merc :)
     
  7. Tarantella

    Tarantella IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    Excellent post. :thumbup:


    If you're running solo notwink then sometimes you have to think a bit.

    Maggots lair are lvl 85 so if you want your merc to be helpful you must back off questing and level up a bit in the pits or elsewhere. At the very worst cobble up some mf gear and go back to nightmare for a bit.

    Mercs dont follow very well on such maps but if you teleport in and back they quite often take the lead.

    Some lair levels are designed to a pattern (exit first right I think) allowing progress to level 3 in a few minutes.

    If you find a LI/PI then lead them back to a loop in the map, or even just room, and dodge past them whilst using decoy and valk to pin them.

    A recastable high level valk can do good damage with a might mercs aura.

    Remember you can shop for wands with useful things on such as lifetap and confuse.

    And even if it takes an hour or more you're only doing it once? :whistling:



     
  8. Kijya

    Kijya IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    To make a bow switch work you need more AR.

    1) Hybrids should have decent to high dex, 300+ isn't bad, and it lets you have max block with a spirit monarch.
    2) Enchant, get it from lava gout, demon limb or obedience.

    You can also try lowering your opponents defense with eth runes in the bow, or charges of cloak of shadows (nadir helm is cheap).

    If you're looking for an "AR-less" solution you can go with FA as suggested, but it'll require more skillpoints, reducing your CS damage somewhat.
     
  9. Ugla

    Ugla IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    First, you don't have to use the same tactics all the time!

    e.g. in Maggots lair, you can take the good ol' Buriza. It's reasonably fast even with normal attack. You were unable hit "anything" not because of low AR, but simply because Jab is bugged in combination with Avoid. The scarabs release lightning bolts when struck which interrupt the Jab cycle on the server side. On the client side it seems like you are whiffing all the time.

    About 50% of LIs are unbreakable by vanilla means (lvl2-3 Lower Resistance charges), namely monsters with 110% and higher LR. If you can afford 'Infinity' you will break some more. In either case, you need some -%eLR gear to be effective (as Dacar already mentioned), since both Conviction and Lower Resistance work at 1/5 efficiency against immunes, leaving them in ~90% values which is still too high.
     
  10. steuntron

    steuntron IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    I traded a Thunderstroke. unique matriarchal javelin with -15% enemy resistance.

    How does this -enemy res work? does it get lowered by 15% each time i hit him? Does it work properly if I use charged strike on lit immunes?
     
  11. steuntron

    steuntron IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    thunderstroke isn't any good it seems. My ethereal upgraded titans kill faster. -enemy resistance only works if u physically hit the target and only for that target. My lighting skills don't seem to damage lightning immunes, even if thunderstroke has -15% lit res.
     
  12. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    No, you don't need to hit them. It's passive. It only works once. It doesn't work against immunes, but it does against broken immunes.

    Infinity would probably be the best solution, but bers don't grow on trees. Remember to use your valk and merc in the best way possible (Isuggest you keep holy freeze). IWith enough gear, you can pre-buff your Valkyrie to lvl 17, and increae her offensive capabilities by alot. They hardly die anyway
     
  13. steuntron

    steuntron IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    My problem is solved atm. Baal dropped me a unique thresher, so my merc handles the lit immunes for now.
     
  14. sneakytails

    sneakytails IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    Just a note on runewords. The mod suggested a obedience polearm for the act2 mercs. What I like about runewords is that you can eventually find the runes if you are constantly playing the game. Especially the mid to low level runes.

    I am about to make one for my defiance merc. This should help a great deal.
    Good call on the titans. Good luck.

    I never liked thunderstroke either when I played SC, my eth titans that I found were my babys. I never had the gear to compliment the strokes.
     
  15. phor

    phor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    I'm in the exact same situation.
    Playing SP SC as a lvl75 Furyzon untwinked.

    Made it through act1 without much issue (merc could kill most LI's I ran into).
    Got to act2 and got destroyed over and over...

    I was actually building the "Fishyzon" (LF, CS, FA, CA), and thought that Frozen Arrow would be my savior against Lightning Immunes.
    But even with 32% mana leech(tal's mask, crescent moon, manald heal), I just could not keep enough mana pots to allow me to kill LI's with FA.
    My AR was just too low to hit with the physical portion of FA. And even though my arrows were piercing, and I was doing good damage with FA, I just could not seem to leech enough mana to keep it up long enough for the kill. Furthermore, since I put points in FA/CA instead of Valk, when my merc got trounced, I was up a creek.

    I tried rebuilding to a WWS strafer, but I have the same sort of problem with killing speed against PI's with that build that I did against LI's before.
    I used a might merc for this build instead of defiance, and he dies even faster than my defiance merc did.. even with 75 all resist, 17% life leech and a 200+ dmg polearm. Life leech for mercs seems to take a HUGE hit in hell mode. He was refilling his entire life bar with 1 hit in NM, but in hell, I can't even tell if he's leeching at all... which means I am left recasting valk after every second or third strafe volley just to keep stuff off me. The strafer does seem to be safer than the Fishy build since you leech a lot more health/mana and when your merc dies, you can just re-cast valk over and over as many times as needed...
    I think it would work well eventually if I sat in Act1 and leveled up for a while before trying my hand at act2 and beyond, but after reading a bunch of suggestions, I think I'm going to go back to my Furyzon.

    I'm going to try to keep FA on tap to use against LI mobs, but alternate FA/Guided in order to keep my mana up. Since Guided always hits, it should provide a good source of leech. And since I wear mainly +skills gear, it should be cheap to cast.
    I also think I'm going to re-gear my defiance merc slightly since the high amount of Leech doesn't seem to be helping at all. I'm going to put Blackhorn's on him to see if the lightning absorb will help at all. I'm also going to switch his polearm to an amn'd up'd woestave to see if that might help him survive longer.
     
  16. sneakytails

    sneakytails IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    Thats funny I am building a WWS strafazon right now as well. I am going to try the Obediance polearm with a might merc for that build. See how that works.
     
  17. Plinko

    Plinko IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    Have you thought about adding more dex?

    This is all based off Act 4/Act 5 hell:
    Jab + 480 dex = LIs are dead in 1-2 seconds.
    Lvl 1 Magic Arrow + Harmony Bow + 460 dex = LI/PI uniques are dead in a few seconds.
    Lvl 1 Multi Shot + Harmony Bow + 460 dex = groups of LIs die in a few seconds.
    LF + 480 dex = Massive amounts of LIs are injured bad enough where you can clear them with a few multi shots afterwards (since the physical damage of LF is quite good when they are clumped up).

    This is with a might merc btw who's just using Insight+Tal's Mask+Gris's armor. He pretty much never dies unless it's vs IM or lister gets crazy mods. I do have to give him some red potions occasionally when he's fighting boss packs of undeads who are LI.
     
  18. ntsan

    ntsan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    There are some rare's that add huge amount of AR ie 33%AR and 1000+AR point depend on lvl, my zon got 6200 ar rating with ar adding spear
     
  19. AgentMarth

    AgentMarth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    I am surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but a great way to help AR problems is:

    Inner Sight

    They isn't a reason to not have it, and will decent plus skills, it takes a nice chunk outta there defense, allowing you to hit them better with Jab.

    My Zon, yes in HC too, last season before I acquired Infinity, and Griffon's, would do a few things to handle LI's:

    One, LR wand. I found that with Fury it didn't do much, but if you have a nice CS, it can still take them out fast enough. It is a bit costly, but worth it.

    Two, Jab. Combine it with Inner Sight, Up'd Titans, and Might Merc, took care of them quite well.

    There is also the option of Tiamuts Rebuke (sp?) Shield with Demon Arch on switch. It offers decent Elemental damage to take stuff out, but is a bit slow, so you may want to work on IAS, like maybe a 15 IAS Jewel in the shield.

    Alot of that was just repeating what others said, but I really just wanted to point out Inner Sight.
     
  20. phor

    phor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Troubles with LI (javazon)

    Do you know if Inner Sight can break phys immunes?
    If you're relying on jab, what do you do against phys immune lighting enchanged/immune mobs?

    That's the beauty of the LF/CS+FA/GA build, you can play SP and untwinked and still have a safe/effective way to take on every mob in the game from range.
    The only downside is that you have to rely on your merc more as a meat shield unless you wear a Peace armor (which is actually quite easy to make, even in SP untwinked).



     

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