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Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Cranium, Jul 12, 2008.

  1. Cranium

    Cranium IncGamers Member

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    Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    Intro

    Firstly, I would like to state that Tri Sorcs are the do it alls of Hell. I use mine to do everything I need to get my other builds up and running. The only thing it cannot do as of yet is Ubers. I have been refining this build over the entire time I have played it works and has worked for 6 years. So yes this is a Tri Sorc build that works. Try it and see its awsome power.

    The items for this build will be cheap to get it up and running and more expensive towards the end.

    A little education on how this build works


    This build works off of a very fine balance of items spells and knowledge of how to use the sorceress. The main reason why this

    build works is because of %Damage goes to mana. The more of this you have the better off you actually are. Here is how Damage

    goes to mana works, "Nightsmoke: When combined with

    Sorceress' Energy Shield: The effects of Energy Shield are applied first, then the resulting damages are modified by

    Nightsmoke. That ability doesn't change how much damage you take at all. It just calculates 50% of however much damage you took

    and gives you that much mana.
    " So having a high energy shield is not important only balancing the energy shield with

    damage goes to mana is important. You want to gain back the mana you lost and then some.

    Next we take a look at the order things are applied in.

    * Energy Shield: This is where the damage is redirected by Energy Shield and mana loss due to Energy Shield occurs.
    * Damage Reduced by X/Magic Damage Reduced by X: The damage that is not redirected by Energy Shield is reduced by the

    appropriate amount and possibly nullified.
    * Resistances: Resistances are applied. This phase does not just include the resistances listed in the character screen

    (Fire/Cold/Lightning/Poison) but also Magical damage and Physical damage (gained from equipment like Shaftstop). This phase is

    also where curses like Lower Resist, Amplify Damage and Decrepify are applied, as is Conviction.
    * X% absorb: %-wise absorb is applied here. I won't go into details here, since we aim to avoid this phase.
    * +X absorb: See above.
    * Damage Goes to Mana: Mana is gained based on the amount of damage still left at this point.
    * Ouch: Damage is applied to life.
    * Mana Burn: Technically not part of the damage resolution, but part of the hit resolving that occurs after damage

    resolution. I mention it here to indicate that it will not take down Energy Shield before Energy Shield gets the chance to

    redirect the damage.


    No everyone knows that putting points into telekinesis lowers the mana taken. Frankly we do not have the points to spare in

    order to do this.

    Ok now the reasoning behind everything. This build is a balance of everything a sorc needs and wants along with a balance of

    burdens put on the sorc by certain spells. In order to reap the benefits you should follow this build to the letter. Everything

    in this build supports another feature which supports another and another. IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO FOLLOW THE BUILD EXACTLY IT

    WILL NOT WORK. This build is like a house of cards. If you mess up the slightest bit in one area the entire house falls on top

    of you.

    Spell Reasoning

    The reason why the points in Shiver Armor, Thunder Storm, and Energy Shield are the way they are is strictly for the amount of

    time they stay up. Energy Shield is also done for the balance of %Damage goes to Mana and Energy Shield. Fire Mastery over Fire

    Ball synergy the reasoning behind this is you will not have enough points to get the explosion high enough to 1 shot things.

    Along with that if you use the burn time like a firewall and stand there while you drop meteors on their heads. You can take a

    couple of hits because of the %Damage goes to Mana. Also you can light a trail up and lure them into the trail causing alot of

    damage. Meph also dies faster when you use the Corner of the Screen trick. The burn time will amount to a larger number then

    that of the immediate strike of the meteor. Frozen Orb needs only 1 In cold mastery everything you wear will add to it. Meteor

    and Orb are at 20 because they are your default damage skills. Frozen orb will slow them while you drop meteors on their heads.

    It is a tried and true setup. The difference now is you get that added damage from thunderstorm. Along with that the lightning

    mastery will add up to enough damage you can take down Dual Immune Fire/Cold Monsters.

    Uses

    Key Runner
    Rusher
    MF
    Baal Runner



    How the Setup Works

    Main Attack

    Frozen Orb
    Meteor

    Defense

    Energy Shield
    Shiver Armor
    Teleport

    Alt Attack

    Thunderstorm
    Chain Light
    Static Field


    Skill Distribution

    Cold Skills

    1 Ice Bolt
    1 Ice Blast
    1 Glacial Spike - Prerequisites for Frozen Orb
    1 Frost Nova
    1 Blizzard

    1 Frozen Armor - Prerequisite for Shiver Armor
    1 Shiver Armor
    1 Cold Mastery
    20 Frozen Orb


    Fire Skills

    1 Fire Bolt
    1 Fire Ball
    1 Inferno - Prerequisites for Meteor
    1 Blaze
    1 Fire Wall

    10 Warmth
    10 Fire Mastery
    20 Meteor


    Light Skills

    1 Static Field
    1 Nova
    1 Telekinesis
    1 Light Bolt - Prerequisites for Thunder Storm + Energy Shield
    1 Teleport
    1 Lightning
    1 Chain Light

    5 Thunder Storm
    4 Energy Shield
    10 Light Mastery

    Total Skill Points 99
    Skill Quests -12
    Actual Level =87


    Stats

    Strength 156

    You are a Sorc not a melee person you do not need hi strength. The reason it is even this high is so you can use a spirit

    monarch in ladder.

    Dexterity 75

    This is for Wizardspike and chance to block. You need Dex to be able to block well.

    Energy 130

    The reason I did not go higher for this is because of the fact the more health you have the better and I don't lose alot of

    mana because of damage goes to mana.

    Vitality 150+

    Put everything you have left into vitality the more health you have the less you have to worry about it. Plus if you get

    poisoned it helps to have time to hit pots.



    Equipment

    The things to look for:

    + Skills
    % Increase Maximum Mana
    % Damage taken goes to Mana

    Some stuff is expensive but, not everything hear is needed. Everything here has been picked out with careful consideration. Any

    time you are doing MFing you want to try and have around 50 % damage goes to mana or higher. If you don't its going to be much

    harder to play.

    MF Setup

    Starting out sell crap items from baal runs and look at Larzuk for MF Items each run. This will help you get some crappy MF

    items to help start you on your way. Also pick up every ring and amy people will drop crappy ones transmute them in your cube

    till you get rings and ammys you want. Remember 3 ammys=1 ring and 3 rings = 1 ammy. Normally i do this all the way through the

    entire time I'm leveling. By the time I hit Nightmare I normally have 20-30% MF rings and ammys. Your Defense will not be a

    problem as you will be doing meph runs a special way where you will barely get touched. On top of that remember you have Shiver

    armor it will boost your defense so don't worry. You are also not going to want to MF till you get to Nightmare it will be a

    waste of time otherwise. Also you must remember that you still need some %Damage goes to mana or you turn into a paper mache

    and will get shredded to pieces if hit.

    Helms

    Shako* (P Topaz'd) - +2 All Skills, +2 All Attributes, Life and Mana, and 10% Damage Reduction, 74% MF.

    TarnHelm (P Topaz'd) - +1 All Skills, 49-74% MF

    Triple Socket Helm (3x P Topaz'd) - 72% MF

    Random crappy MF circlet - 5-50 % MF

    Weapon

    Occy* (Ist'd) - +3 Skills, Resistances, Faster Cast Rate, Enhanced Defense, Vitality, Energy, 80% MF

    Ali baba - 1-99 %MF

    Gull Dagger - 100% MF

    Shield

    Milabrega's Orb - 20% MF

    Rhyme - (Shael+Eth Bone/Grim/Troll) - 25% MF, 25 All Resist, 15% Mana Regen, 60% Chance to block

    Splendor - (Eth+Lum Bone/Grim/Troll) - +1 All Skills, 20% MF, +10% Faster Cast Rate, Regenerate Mana 15%, 40% Chance to block

    Spirit Monarch* (ladder only) - +2 All Skills, Faster Cast Rate, Faster Hit Recovery, Resists, Magic Absorb

    Armor


    Tal Rasha* (P Topaz'd) - Cold/Light/Fire Resist 40%, 102% MF

    Naj's Armor (Ith'd)- +1 Skills, all resist, 60% Damage taken goes to mana, life

    Belt

    Tal Rasha* - 10-15%MF, 37% Damage goes to mana

    Goldwrap - 30% MF

    Boots

    War Travelers - 30-50% MF

    Random MF Boots - 5-35% MF

    Gloves


    Chance Guards - 25-40% MF

    Random MF Gloves 5-25% MF

    Ammy

    Tal Rasha* - +2 Sorc Skills

    Random MF Ammy - 5-50% MF

    Rings

    Nagel - 15-30% MF

    Random MF RIng - 5-40% MF

    *Suggested MF Setup for Hell Difficulty. Tal Rasha when 3 items combined mf becomes 65% for ammy totaling a possible 182% for

    the 3 set items.

    Baal Runs/Rushing/Key Runs

    Helm

    Shako* (Um'd) - +2 All Skills, +2 All Attributes, Life and Mana, and 10% Damage Reduction, 15 All Res.

    Peasant Crown - +1 All skills, +20 Energy & Vitality, +8-12 Replenish Life

    Weapon


    Occy* - +3 Skills, Resistances, Faster Cast Rate, Enhanced Defense, Vitality, Energy, 50% MF

    Random +2 sorc skill orb

    Shield

    Lidless* - +1 All Skills, Increase Max Mana, Faster Cast Rate

    Spirit Monarch* (ladder only) - +2 All Skills, Faster Cast Rate, Faster Hit Recovery, Resists, Magic Absorb

    Ancient's Pledge - +50% EDef, Cold Resist 43%, Fire, Light, Poison Resist 48%, 10% Damage Goes To Mana

    Boots

    Aldur's Boots*- 10% Damage taken goes to mana, Fire Resist

    Random Hi Resistance Boots

    Armor

    Naj's Armor* (Ith'd)- +1 Skills, all resist, 60% Damage taken goes to mana, life

    Heavenly Garb - Regenerate Mana 25%, All Resist 10, +15 Energy

    Ammy

    Tal's Amy*- +2 Skills, life and mana, light resist

    Random* +2 Sorc Skills Amy

    Saracen* or Prismatic Amy

    Belt

    Nightsmoke* (Up'd) - 50% Damage Taken goes to mana, 10 all resist, +20 Mana

    Tal's Belt*- 37% Damage taken goes to mana, 10-15%MF, +30 mana

    Rings


    Dwarf Star*- 15% Fire Absorb

    Raven Frost* - 20% Cold Absorb

    Gloves

    Magefist (Up'd)- +1 Fire Skills, Regen Mana, Faster Cast Rate, Defense=80

    Suggested for Baal Runs

    Wisp Projector - 10-20% Light Absob, 10-20% MF

    Suggested for Nihalik Runs

    Nature's Peace - Slain Monsters RIP

    *Required to do hell difficulty well. Also 2 Tal Rasha set items = Replenish Life 10.

    Your resistances will be fairly low so you will need a Perfect Diamond to put in lidless and you will want to get resistance

    charms. To upgrade items you need to use a Hordric Cube Recipe.



    Leveling

    Leveling a build that is so spread out like this can be extrordinarly tricky so I am going to put down your leveling guide

    here. If you can try and get a hellforge hammer to use at lvl 1-15. Also grab any orbs or staves be greedy here people cause

    you are going to need it more so then any other builds while leveling.

    Level 1-10

    Levels 1-5 will be done in one game by going into a baal game clearing blood moore till you find the den and then clearing the

    den. Save this 1 point till later I will tell you when to use it.

    After Level 5 join a Trist run game and party up and just follow the group and help kill what you can.

    All stat points go in Strength. This helps to build up your ability to wear armor and not get hit as easily.

    All Skill points go in Warmth. This will seem hurtful at first but you should use the starting staff and hit enemies with it.

    Level 11

    Stat points go into Strength. This will set you at 65 strength which is enough to get you through normal to baal runs.

    Skill Point Goes into Frost Nova. This allows you to slow enemies so they don't hit you and so party members can kill them. It

    also has a wide radius allowing you to keep them spaced out enough to escape from death.

    Level 12

    Stat points go into Vitality. Gives you the little more health you need for Tombs.

    Skill point goes into Frozen Armor. This allows you to up your defense and get away from a guy cause he will freeze when he

    hits you.

    Level 13

    Stat points go into Energy. Now that you have started using spells you need mana.

    Skill Point goes into Static. This gives you the ability to help drop gris and uniques life point helping out your party.

    Level 14

    Stat points go into Energy. Now that you have started using spells you need mana.

    Skill point goes into Ice Bolt. We need to work our way to Shiver Armor.

    Level 15

    You are now don trist runs. Good for you you now need to Kill Andy and Duriel. The best way to do this is make a game asking

    for help ex: Plz Help Act1-2. Most of the Time people are willing to help and if not join one where a bunch of people your

    level are doing it together. You are not going to be strong enough to kill them without help. Once you have done this join a

    tomb run game.

    Stat points go into Vitality. You are going to need more health in tombs because of poison.

    Skill point goes into Ice Blast. This will allow you to freeze the uniques and stronger monsters so the melee people dont

    recieve as much damage in tombs.

    Level 16

    Stat points go into Vitality. You are going to need more health in tombs because of poison.

    Skill point goes into Shiver Armor. This will greatly beef up your defense allowing you not to get hit as much.

    Level 17

    Stat points go into Vitality. You are going to need more health in tombs because of poison.

    Skill point goes into telekinesis. This is so you can get teleport.

    Level 18

    Stat points go into Vitality. You are going to need more health in tombs because of poison.

    Skill point goes into teleport. This is so you can get away from enemies and so you don't have to deal with running out of

    stamina.

    Level 19

    Stat points go into Vitality. You are going to need more health in tombs because of poison.

    Skill point goes into glacial spike. This is on the way up the tree to frozen orb.

    Level 20

    Stat points go into Vitality. You are going to need more health in tombs because of poison.

    Skill point goes into charged bolt. This is a prereq for Energy Shield and Thunderstorm.

    Level 21

    Stat points go into Vitality. You are going to need more health in tombs because of poison.

    Skill point goes into lightning. This is a prereq for Energy Shield and Thunderstorm.

    Level 22

    Stat points go into Energy. You are going to need this for baal runs.

    Skill point goes into chain lightning. This is a prereq for Energy Shield and Thunderstorm.

    Level 23

    Stat points go into Energy. You are going to need this for baal runs.

    Skill point goes into nova. This is a prereq for Thunderstorm.

    Level 24

    Stat points go into Energy. You are going to need this for baal runs.

    Skill point goes into Energy Shield. The skill point that we have been saving from den goes into Blizzard. This allows you to

    get an awsome damage spell for tombs/ancients/baal and a defensive spell for less damage to character and lowering your chances

    to die at ancients.

    Level 25

    You now need to do ancients. Once again you will need to make a game asking for help or join a game of similar level people

    trying to complete the quest.

    Stat points go into Energy. You are going to need this for baal runs.

    Skill point goes into Thunderstorm. This is an awsome spell that will help stun even lightning immune creatures before they can

    get to you adding to your protection for ancients.

    Level 26

    You now need to do baal runs until you hit level 45. You will need to join a game of similar level people trying to kill baal's

    minions. Remember always check quest log so that you do not kill baal in a game and get the quest before you are level 45 or

    you will have a really rough time trying to level.

    Stat points go into Dexterity. You are going to need this for blocking with a shield and also for possibly wiz spike.

    Skill point goes into fire bolt. It is a prereq for Meteor.

    Level 27-29

    You now need to do baal runs until you hit level 45. You will need to join a game of similar level people trying to kill baal's

    minions. Remember always check quest log so that you do not kill baal in a game and get the quest before you are level 45 or

    you will have a really rough time trying to level.

    Stat points go into Dexterity. You are going to need this for blocking with a shield and also for possibly wiz spike.

    Skill point leave unused.

    Level 30

    Stat points go into Dexterity. You are going to need this for blocking with a shield and also for possibly wiz spike.

    Skill points that have been saved up now get put into frozen orb/cold mastery/light mastery.


    Level 30-37

    Stat points go into Dexterity. You are going to need this for blocking with a shield and also for possibly wiz spike.

    Skill points go into frozen orb.

    Level 37-44

    Stat points go into Strength. This will help you wear heavier armor from nm.

    Skill points go into frozen orb.

    Level 45

    You now need to find a baal for quest game. Kill baal for the quest. From there go into nm and join a baal game and ask for the

    wp and complete the quest in your own game and repeat until you have beaten nm. You can also look for games with like level

    players who are doing the same or you can make the plz help games although in nm you are less likely to get help as no one

    stays in nm very long.

    Stat points go into Strength. This will help you wear heavier armor from nm.

    Skill points go into frozen orb.


    Level 46-50

    You should have beaten ancients by now or you leveled up on your way to beat them. Once you have beaten ancients do baal runs

    until 65-75.

    Stat points go into Energy. This will help you with your mana woes.

    Skill points go into frozen orb.

    Level 51

    Stat points go into Energy. This will help you with your mana woes.

    Skill points go into Fire Mastery. This will help your fire spells you are now acquiring.

    Level 52

    Stat points go into Energy. This will help you with your mana woes.

    Skill points go into Inferno. It is a prereq for Meteor.


    Level 52

    Stat points go into Energy. This will help you with your mana woes.

    Skill points go into Blaze. It is a prereq for Meteor.


    Level 53

    Stat points go into Energy. This will help you with your mana woes.

    Skill points go into Firewall. It is a prereq for Meteor and a decent spell for fire damage for the time being.


    Level 54

    Stat points go into Energy. This will help you with your mana woes.

    Skill points go into Fireball. It is a prereq for Meteor.

    Level 53-57

    Stat points go into Energy. This will help you with your mana woes.

    Skill points go into Meteor.

    Level 57-67

    Stat points go into Strength. This will help get you ready for the spirit monarch.

    Skill points go into Meteor.

    Level 67

    1 stat point into Strength and 4 stat points into health. This will complete the monarch strength requirement and start you on

    your health.

    Skill points go into Meteor.


    Level 68-73

    Stat points go into Health. This will help you with your mana woes.

    Skill points go into Meteor.

    Level 74-83

    Stat points go into Health. This will help you with your mana woes.

    Skill points go into Fire Mastery.

    Level 83-87

    Acquire the rest of the skill quests.

    Stat points go into Health. This will help you with your mana woes.

    Add skills in this order 3 Energy Shield, 4 Thunderstorm, 9 Light Mastery.

    Level 87-99

    Focus on your weaknesses such as through fire mastery and light mastery. Stats use as you see fit.


    Tips for playing this build type

    When you go to use this character you want to make sure that you have thunderstorm, shiver armor, and energy shield up when you

    go to fight well at least the ones you have at the time up. The other thing you got to remember is you can use frozen orb to

    attract monsters even if immune to cold and to drop meteors behind you and run back past them and force the monster to walk

    through it as you drop more meteors on top of them. Continue this and you should only run into dual immunes. For dual cold/fire

    immune switch to chain lightning and make sure thunder storm is up. Static them if you can and between thunderstorm and chain

    lightning they shouldn't have a chance. Also dont forget you can drop meteors across water to hit things that you would

    normally need to teleport or cross a bridge to get too. This will keep you at a distance from them. Souls can be taken care of

    by teleporting and orbing and repeating that over and over.


    Final Words


    If you have anything to add don't be hesitant to even if it is negative. I would like to get other peoples points of view on

    this build but, if you do feel like commenting on skill structures I ask you try it at least in open battle net first. For it

    is much easier to make a character in open to test him then to spend hours of time to level in closed.
     
  2. Ilumm

    Ilumm IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    My main problem is that i don't see how you can actually kill something in hell with it.

    I had problems with my frozen orb sorc in NM against NON cold immunes because the dmg is to small... And in hell you sometime have problems with blizz sorc against non cold immunes even if the dmg is a lot bigger.

    Any chance you can provide us with an exported char with this build so we can try it in Open Bnet/SP(if forum rules allow).
     
  3. LongingForDeath

    LongingForDeath IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    I agree with Ilumm. It's basically a Meteorb sorc with missing synergies for the main attack. With this skill layout, EVERY skill is a backup attack. You might survive in hell with it, but it will take quite a while to kill anything. I'd rather synergize the fire tree instead and let my merc take care of the occasional CI/FI boss. That'll take a lot less time than fighting with 3 weak attacks.
     
  4. Cranium

    Cranium IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    You say it doesn't work yet I've used it for 6 years with no problems. Try it get the exact setup and try it. If you think it doesn't work after you have fine. But you are knocking it before you have tried it.

    If you want friend me jthemules and jtheconquer. The first is my current ladder account the second is my old ladder account with a fully finished one. Put me where ever you want ill kill whatever monsters are there except ubers.

    Also damage is so small i do 380-400 dmg per spike there is 40 of them on each orb how the hell is that dmg so small. Maybe you should do the math before you say something is crappy.

    Try it it works if you don't think so then prove it.

    Damage is not weak wow. I told you try it before you criticize it yet you haven't done that. All you are doing is flaming because you have no clue.
     
  5. ToeBasher

    ToeBasher IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    First of all, the stats are totally utterly wrong. The str and energy stats you have put way to much in. The skills, without synergies, will feel like a pinch to the enemies in hell. I havent created a complete tri element sorceress to test it out, but i have used my lightning sorc to do so. I've added 20 points in to frozen orb and the preq and equipted all of the items you've listed. And man, must i say i stinked like a stinky cheese. Imo, this is build is to fool around with, not be be taken seriously
     
  6. AgentMarth

    AgentMarth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    The thing is, you have 1 pt in CM. Therefore, your damage isn't as high as someone with a 17+ CM. Your Orb is your strongest attack, but is weaker then when it is used as a Back-up.

    CL will do no damage worthy of note, and Meteor may do some, but not enough to be worth it either.

    5 in Tstorm? Like... why.... why.....

    You recommend ES with only 4 points and none in TK, therefore making it hurt more then help. DTM should be moot since you shouldn't be wanting to get hit in the first place.

    NM Ancients at 46-50? If you are twinked like mad maybe. Trying solo at that level otherwise is to tricky.

    Points in energy >_> and 130 at that <_<

    75 Dex for Wizzy, ok, but don't expect block with that, moreso with Spirit.

    No mention of Insight anywhere. Talk about fixing mana woes.

    Fix the format, the copy pasta didn't work.

    The only Tri Sorc that would be semi viable would be 20 Orb, 20 Nova, 20 LM, 20 FM, 20 FW + pre reqs. Which I don't even think is possible unless you hit like 99.

    ~~~

    I could spend alot more time picking it all apart, but it wouldn't be worth it. I hate to be mean like this, but I second:



     
  7. Cranium

    Cranium IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    If you read the entire post Agent Marth you would see my reasoning. It is infuriating when I put information up there and you decide to not read it.

    Lets explain this again damage taken goes to mana negates the mana taken from energy shield when you get hit and after its done negating that it normally has enough to add some mana to your pool. I didn't add insight cause frankly i dont need it. You can put it in if you want it but it is not needed with the damage taken goes to man the only time i use pots for mana is when im getting hit like a mofo or when i am casting a lot more then i need too.

    Also You people wanted an open version of this character here it is: tri_sorc.rar
     
  8. AgentMarth

    AgentMarth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    Lets just say 100% DTM, which in and of itself is very unpractical. Even moreso since the vast majority of end game gear lacks it entirely unless you wanna Ith your Harly.

    ~100 Damage hit taken 50% ES With 0 TK so 2:1 Ratio
    50 Life - 100 Mana

    So then 50 Life effected by 100% DTM is, wait for it, 50 Mana. Half of the Mana taken, along with still 50 to Life. Ouch.


    ~100 damage hit with 75% ES 0 TK
    25 Life - 150 Mana

    25 Effected by 100% DTM = 25 Mana, 1/6 the Mana regained. Yeah.....


    ~100 damage hit with 25% ES 0 TK
    75 Life - 50 Mana

    75 Effected by DTM = 75 Mana back, therefore canceling the Mana out, ok, but still 75 to life.


    Thing is, 25% ES just ain't gonna happen, between 4 base points, plus skills, and the fact that iirc is starts at 20%. Add in the fact that DTM is not easy or worthwhile to get, you wont be breaking even on your mana loss, and are better off not even using ES, pumping synergies instead, and taking focus off DTM.

    If you really could effectively cancel out the mana loss from ES using DTM, people would be using it more often. Add in the fact that getting that right % ES would be a PITA, the variable of DR%, PDR, MDR, DTM and other things, its just not a good idea. The point is none the less, even IF you did find out how to cancel out the mana loss, you STILL have the life loss to deal with. The best way to use ES is max TK, 75%+ ES, and enough PDR to cancel out the damage done to your life.

    Anyways, that is only one of the things I pointed out. Is there a reason why you choose to ignore the others?

    ~I didn't mention it last post, but you comment on taking hits in order to land some of your own. Horrible idea, even moreso in HC.

    ~"Stat points go into Health. This will help you with your mana woes." - How many times was this put down?

    ~The mention of making plz help games repeatedly. Can it not solo on its own?

    ~More I'm sure I could find.

    You shouldn't post a guide, which came out horribly formatted and made it very hard to read, then ask for comments if you are not going to try and counter all of them, and instead just go for one of them alone. That is infuriating. I commend the effort you seem to put into the guide, but there is no way I would ever recommend it, or even try it.

    Apparently I am bored enough at work to comment more on this, at least I got a good laugh out of the LoTR reference.

    EDIT - Thinking about it, the only way to do a Tri-Elemental Sorc is with Enchant, Dreams, and Orb. That being a mix of Melee and Caster. But to make a Tri-Caster, its just not worth it, and there is no point.
     
  9. supergoatman

    supergoatman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    everyone says tri-element sorcs are the most underpowered builds in diablo 2, and i cant agree more
     
  10. Cranium

    Cranium IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    Considering the fact that the gear I listed si end game and it is what I use and I get 120% DTM I would have to disagree that end game gear doesnt support it. A Najs plate with an ith and a upd nightsmoke is 110% DTM. It is a really good equipment setup. The armor is just as good as anything else for a sorc. The belt gives you 10 all resist which is good for a belt no matter how you look at it.

    Najs Plate Ith'd

    Defense: 721-830 (varies)(Base Defense: 421-530)
    Required Level: 71
    Required Strength: 79
    Durability: 60
    +300 Defense
    Requirements -60%
    60% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
    +1 To All Skills
    All Resistances +25
    +65 To Life

    Up'd Nightsmoke

    Defense: 61-75 (varies)(Base Defense: 35-40)
    Required Level: 20
    Required Strength: 25
    Durability: 16
    16 Boxes
    +30-50% Enhanced Defense (varies)
    +15 Defense
    50% Damage Taken Goes to Mana*
    Damage Reduced By 2
    All Resistances +10
    +20 To Mana

    Also mana lost = damage redirected * (2 - 0.0625*TK) where TK is the total number of skill points spend on Telekinesis. With the setup that you are given you end up with 2 from shako, 2 from spirit. 1 naj armor, and 3 occy. That means 8 plus the 1 already in it which means telekinesis is at lvl 9. Then 8 +4 energy shield is equal to lvl 14 which is 67%.

    So you take your 100 damage and take 67% of it so you have 67 damage going to energy shield 67 * (2 - 0.0625*11) = 67 * (2 - 0.6875) = 67 * 1.3125 = 87.9375. We now have the 33 that went down the line to the next step 10% Shako off 33 is 29.7. We then take this 29.7 and multiply it by 1.3 which gives you 38.61. 87.9375-38.61 = 49.3275 Mana Taken away. We are not done yet though. We have mana regen that has yet to be factored in. Warmth is at level 21 do to the addition from the +1 on the magefists. That means the mana regen time is at 270 before we add anything else. So you take normal regen time and speed it up by 270%. Then after you have done this you factor in the Item magefists which give you an additional 25%. This roughly factors out to 19.9 mana per second. 49.3275-19.9 = 29.4275. So out of 100 damage you lose 33 Health and 29 Mana. When you have 841 Health and 678 Mana this is a very small fraction and can be offset b simply tleing/running away and with in 3 secs your back at full mana. Thus making the sorceress pretty much untouchable. Plus obviously you are not going to stand still while your getting hit. You also have to realize that you do not have a low defense with this build its going to be between 2711 - 3100 after shiver armor. So you will not be taking blows as much as most sorcs that do not use this.

    So there is your math and with 87-99 you can invest in warmth and telekenesis that along with sojs, cta, and infinity it can nullify mana loss. But as it stands taking this little amount of damage from the enemy is low enough you can hit pots if you needed too. So there is your math if you want to do all of it use http://library.planetdiablo.gamespy.com/concept-manaregen.htm to get the mana regen information. So regardless this does get rid of your mana woes as you barely use any mana defending yourself and you dont have to invest tons of points into telekenesis. The open character is uyp there for you to play with. Try it as for now Im tired of trying to prove my point to someone who wont even take the 45 mins to play the character and get a feel for it.

    Try the open charcter if you dont believe me that it works and works well. I am tired of proving myself to people who dont take the time to do the math.
     
  11. ToeBasher

    ToeBasher IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    The bottom line is, a tri-element sorceress could never compare with a well equipped infinity lighting sorceress or a meterorb. I just think taking all that time to find equipment for a tri-element is really a waste while you could be building a mono-element sorc that would possibly be times better. well thats just my opinion
     
  12. Cranium

    Cranium IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    Ya if you build straight up you can get more damage but, I like the flexibility thats all. I use it for everything and it gets the job done I rarely die so all in all i like it. I have built Lightning and Meteorb straight up and i don't like them in the least cause not being able to kill something infuriates me.
     
  13. AgentMarth

    AgentMarth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    ~Only hard points effect the synergy, so thats moot.

    So you still take ~130 to mana (Sorry, I ain't taking the time to do the math perfectly) with 67% ES, unless you put more skill points into it.

    Then 29.7 was right, x 1.3 DTM = 38.61 Mana back

    130 - 38.61 = 91.39

    So 92 Mana 30 Life for a hit that should only do 100 overall damage in the first place. 92 Mana is a hard chunk out of your bulb. Now given, not ever hit is for 100, but the point still remains. If you wanna be picky, you even forgot the 2 PDR on Nightsmoke, but that still doesn't make much a difference.

    ~Mana regen does help, but if you are only talking about under 700 Mana, you will still take a while to regenerate with just Warmth. I run Insight along with a high level Warmth and Mana can still take a while to regen with only that much. Not to mention, you have spells you are most likely casting. I don't know about most people, but I don't like to have to "tele/run away" and wait for my health/Mana to come up. Hardly untouchable.

    ~Viper. Skins of the Vipermagi is a much better choice in so many ways then Naj's armor. Naj's armor is nice, but I would never choose it over Viper on a Sorc. Nightsmoke is a decent low belt, but Tgods/Arach/Rare/Crafted Belt are so much better. Thats just normal easier to find gear. If you venture in runewords, CoH can be very nice.

    ~You then mention getting Infinity, which then makes the entire point of more then one element moot.

    ~Not allow to link to other D2 sites.

    ~I didn't take to much a notice before, but 10 in Warmth? It doesn't even snergize anything, and the Mana regen isn't that huge.


    ~I am not going to play a character that I feel is poorly built. Plus, I doubt its a HC char, which is what I do.

    ~You seem to be stuck on the DTM thing, while not defending the other points people are making about the build. The DTM/ES issue aside, there are ALOT of other things that need to be worked on. Again, you failed to take note of the other points I made. Did you not want the criticism after all?

    CL's damage probably doesn't even break 1k, same with Tstorm (which pulses so slow monster regen out does it, let alone its random). Meteor may hit above 5k, but then you have the whole aiming issue.

    It just seems like the whole thing is poorly planned out skill wise. Set aside the DTM/ES, and the build needs alot of work. It looks like something that would come from someone who just picked up the game for the first time and just wanted to have fun experimenting with random skills.

    Sorry, but thats how I feel, and thats what everyone else seems to think.

    Why did I take the time to do this post? I don't know, maybe I just did it for the lulz.....



     
  14. melianor

    melianor D3 Wizard Moderator

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    Folks, either you stay polite and respectful in your discussion, or i can start swinging the banstick alternatively. Everybody has a right to bringing up their arguments, but stop ridiculing each other.

    Also if the OP claims to have been using this as a Keyrunner, MFer and Baalrunner you might just as well try to reason out why this works. Tri-Elementalist do not reach the damage output in a single tree and maximizer their damage their. They reach their damge output by using alot of skills in combination and yes that works. Yes they will never reach the damage output of a BLizzard Sorc or an Infinity Lightning Sorc, but they can for sure do Keyrus, MF and Baalruns with that. Their damage will be enough for the games that they run. That is a fact.

    You either have played a Tri-Elementalist, no matter what build or not. And with the right gear they compensate power with versatility. I have played various Tri-Elementalist version and have never had problems killing even in 8 player games. Ofcourse the killing speed might night step right up to dual or single tree builds, but why is that a reason to start bashin at such builds?

    Frozen Orb with just 1 hard point in CM is perfectly normal for a Tri-Elementalist. With some added +skills Frozen Orb is still very useful and works just fine, also in Hell mode, though you will already have some +skills here.

    A wellequipped Tri-Elementalist will not have problems in hell with the right equipment. Its not an argument about killing power or speed. That is not always the goal of players. Again Tri-Elementalist is about playing versatile and beiing able to kill anything in the game.

    With this particular build i agree that there can certainly be some improvement.

    Questions to the OP Cranium:

    What is the dex for, except for beiing able to equip Wizard Spike? With 75 Dex you will not be able to block anything with the Spirit runeword Shield. Well you might block sometimes, but that will be more random than anything. To reach max-blocking with a Spirit Monarch Shield you will need more than 300 Dex!

    Also i agree in the reasoning behind ES and TK. Only hard points in TK will work as a synergy.



     
  15. Cranium

    Cranium IncGamers Member

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    Re: Tri Sorc Build - MF/Key Runner/Rusher/Baal Runner

    The 75 dex is mainly for wizspike I guess you could do less if you felt like it and regardless of whether its only a little bit it will raise your chance to block some not alot but, some.. Sry for taking a couple of days of it was mainly to cool down.
     

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