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Trav barb weps

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by dOOmas, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. dOOmas

    dOOmas IncGamers Member

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    What is the most common trav barb wep combo?
    Just started my lvling my trav barb.
    Also i only have 1 lo atm,so would grief be better for now,or should i go for forti?
     
  2. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Grief is the best weapon for a Travbarb, I'd definitely make that over Fortitude. Oath is probably your second best choice until you get two Grief.
     
  3. japanzaman

    japanzaman IncGamers Member

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    Grief without a doubt. Most item find barb builds use Enigma, so no need for a Forti.
     
  4. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I think that depends on which other characters you have. If you have a bowazon, she would benefit massively from a Fortitude armor while a paladin (or other melee sharacters in general) would fare better with Grief, preferable in a phase blade.

    If you don't share equipment between characters or even bury them with their stuff once you are done with them (respectively, it's about hardcore), Grief is probably the better first choice for melee characters, not just for (recommendation for Trav) frenzy barbs. The second Lo could go into Fortitude. The second seapon could be something with emphasis on something else than raw damage, like a nice aura (Beast) or CB (Stormlash). That would need investments into two masteries (except you go for Beast and make Grief in a berserker axe, making it less useful for non-barbs), but 10 points in each are probably good enough.

    With respect to business, a GF character will need a long time to earn back a Lo investment. I prefer to make GF characters for nightmare Trav. In that case, you give him as much GF stuff as possible, as he will be good enough with upped Ali Babas.

    Edit: Confusion due to missing bracket fixed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  5. dOOmas

    dOOmas IncGamers Member

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    I dont share equipment,otherwise id use my sorc mercs forti,but alas,ill have to make a 2nd one.
    2 more jahs would be nice,would make last wish.
    Btw i dont rly need eni for a trav character,if i ever make a necro or something,then an eni might be worthwhile.
     
  6. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    It all depends on your goals. If you want to be as efficient as possible a Travincal barb runner needs an enigma. If that isn't a priority and you want to play the way is more fun to you and makes you run more, it's a different story.
     
  7. crawlingdeadman

    crawlingdeadman IncGamers Member

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    Mine uses Grief + Silence Phase blades.
     
  8. Zenigma

    Zenigma IncGamers Member

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    So what is the most efficient way then? Would it be teleporting to the council, killing them on /p1 then going to /p7 to hork?
     
  9. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Hork works as if the game is on p7 anyway. For a reasonably geared trav barb p3 gives you the best balance of kill time vs drop chance for the kill. Teleport is both better because it lets you position your merc (decrep is a major boost) and because it makes it quicker to get to the council and then return to the waypoint (starting in act 4 instead of act 3 will shave seconds off your runs).

    The most efficient runner is whirlwind barb with dual griefs and enigma, that much is pretty clear, but you can run trav with other setups. I was doing 63 second p3 runs with dual Razor's Edge and a Leviathan, for instance. But dual Grief plus Enigma shaves more than 20 seconds off that time, which obviously is an absolutely insane amount of time saved over numerous runs. With practice and a good map Grief/Grief barbs can go under 40 seconds and if you use 1.07 eth BAs and 1.07 charms you can get down to 30 seconds or even below.
     
  10. frozzzen

    frozzzen IncGamers Member

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    Or just load up Blizzard sorc and do sub 20 sec runs.
     
  11. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    True but answering every "what's the most efficient?" question with "be grip" gets old after awhile.
     
  12. srrw

    srrw IncGamers Member

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    Mind if I ask for the setup? I know I've seen it somewhere before but it's been awhile and I've forgotten. I think it was max damage + Inifinity to break Toorc's immunity?
     
  13. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Fortunately, the froz prince made a video awhile back to show just that.



    Don't remember if he said it in the video, but for the RFO froz said Hellmouth were the gloves of choice, and I did really like having them on.
     
    Gripphon likes this.
  14. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    I think I understand your "problem". Even though Enigma is unbeatable solution for Travincal barb armor, I can see it can be kind of problematic to make Enigma for Travincal barb since you don't share equipment among characters. I myself would then rather save runes for Enigma to use on pit zerker or something else.

    For that reason, I second suggestion of trying blizzard sorc. Even without Infinity (which mostly makes you don't skip Toorc every run really), blizzard sorc can outperform enigmaless Travincal barb by a huge margin. Doing 25 sec running with good map is really doable with some practice even without Infinity (LOL check EDIT!). Add Infinity on that and you have godly Travincal runner. Since you don't want to make Enigma on barb, blizzard sorc will be A LOT more efficient Travincal runner. Then give barb some other job to do or run Travincal with him for fun when you are bored.

    Btw even with Enigma, barb and sorc are at par with each other when it comes to efficiency of running. I even believe most people would make more efficient Travincal runner out of sorc than out of barb. My godly optimized Travincal barb is 7% more efficient than my not so hard optimized blizzard sorc. While barb has 1.07 atma bugged grief zerkers, enigma, great rings, 1.07 35 33 and similar maxers etc, blizzard sorc has infinity, fathom and rest is rather easy to find gear, along with charms. And they are still at par with minor minor advantage toward barb. That's how godly Travincal runner blizzard sorc is. Without such godly equipment on barb, I believe blizzard sorc would be more efficient runner for pretty much any player.

    To give you idea about my travincal barb, here is the video

    As for blizzard sorc, here is video

    Comparing those two videos along with video posted above, I must say how much more relaxed and easier to play blizzard sorc seems to be. No million items on the floor, no horking, no ww-ing, just tele, blizzard, spam a little and go back. Can it get easier than that? But blizzard sorc requires pretty good map to be so easily playable, similar to posted in last two videos where minions are at one bunch. My blizzard sorc travincal map is practically perfect, but it takes some time to roll map like that. Barbs map is also fantastic for sorc. Any map where minions are together will work. Best place is that balcony where minions can't scatter around easily.

    So my overall evaluation is that blizzard sorc = barb for travincal when both are optimized, and sorc > barb when they are not optimized. Not using infinity means you will skip Toorc every run, but who cares. You still kill 10 minions each run and will, I believe, outperform enigmaless barb easily in both efficiency and gameplay difficulty.

    Hopefully my comment was helpful. Btw LK >>> Travincal when it comes to fast farming. Just saying.

    EDIT: after some additional thinking, I think I greatly overestimated sorc abilities in Travincal without Infinity. I've forgotten that even the best players with Infinity used to run Travincal in like 22 secs with blizzard sorc, so average player with average equipment can't do 25 sec running, no way in hell. Average equipment including Hoto, shako, vipermagi, bad rolled facets and such I mean. 6.5k blizzard is doable to get with double soj and some skillers with such equipment etc... Truth is I don't really have idea how good can average player with average equipment perform with blizzard sorc in Travincal. On the other hand, it's still possible he would beat enigmaless barb. How long it takes for that barb to fully kill council, like 1 minute or more at best? Sorc would need like 40 seconds and below to beat that barb. This time I really think that should be doable with average equipment. Hopefully I won't be back in 5 mins to edit post to say I suck in evaluating performances of sub-optimal geared characters. I've spent too much time in a world with great geared characters that I forgot about how hard some parts of a game can be without optimal gear and without much practice :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
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  15. dOOmas

    dOOmas IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for all the replys,the reason i want a trav barb is change of pace from my blizz sorc,which has an infinity and fort on my merc,but is mostly used for Lk and At runs.
    My sorc was never a twink,but i might twink a char or 2.
    If enigma seems like a better choice for a trav barb instead of fort,since i have the runes,ill make 1 and transfer to my barb after its finished lvling.

    Rule of thumb i go by,twink only after hell is finished.
     
  16. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Grip and I had a little discussion about this earlier and I'll post my differing experiences here by way of illustrating a counter point, but I will go ahead and point out first that, to the point that dOOmas was asking about: if you want to run for runes and don't share items between your chars then LK is just your best choice. Unless you focus on gearing up and practicing/rolling up a great map trav is just less efficienct for runes and is just always worse for gems, charms and the like. If you just want to run travincal for fun/just cause and are willing to spend a Lo on that character then Grief is just way better than Fortitude, it is not close.

    My experience with the trav sorc vs trav barb was the trav barb being drastically easier to play than the sorc. Now I will definitely concede that I'm a worse player than grip, but I do have hundreds of hours of practice with sorcs, the majority of that with blizz sorcs, so the mechanics of playing one aren't exactly alien to me. As another note against my findings though, I only played the blizzsorc in trav during the RFO and without any real practice ahead of time, whereas I probably had somewhere between 75-120 hours of WW barb practice in Travincal from years past.

    What I found was that even with absorb my sorc had consistent mana and life problems and did insufficient damage to keep the council from scattering quickly enough to affect my times. Fire damage was not a problem, but even with high resists I was finding cold and lightning a nuisance, though the bigger problem was from physical damage as I found it rather tough to fit my sorc in the sweet spot on my map that left me both spawn them where I wanted and not give them enough time to scatter before I could start spamming. Granted, physical damage became a much smaller issue once she got over level 90 (I forget exactly where I started with her, 86-** or so) thanks to the to-hit penalty but I don't know what the overlap of "want to run trav with mid-gear sorc" and "have a sorc over level 90" are. Even then she died some, so it's not like the problems completely went away.

    As for gear, here's what I was using:
    -Nightwing's Veil, 15% Cold Skill Damage with a +3/-5 cold facet
    -Mara's Kaleidoscope ([email protected])
    -24% Death's Fathom with a 4/4 facet
    -Vipermagi with ptopaz
    -Spirit
    -Hellmouth
    -Arachnid's Mesh
    -2 rare rings with mana/res
    -rare boots with res/FHR
    -CtA/Spirit

    Charms were mana/life/res since I had no skillers. Don't remember exact resists but definitely high (pretty sure cold and lightning were 75, not sure about overstack) and life was ~1700. Obviously that gear can be beaten, but it's not exactly bargain level. Damage was ~7700 on Blizzard.

    In contrast, the barb was wearing
    -Arreat's
    -Highlord's
    -dual Grief PBs
    -Enigma
    -LoH
    -SoE
    -2 rare rings
    -Gore Rider's
    -2x Suicide Branch on switch

    Charms were Steel/Sharp/Fine plus a Sounding skiller to hit the next FI breakpoint. He had excess points in Strength to make up for the damage disparity of me not using 1.07 items/charms and yet he died much, much less than the sorc did even before level 90. After level 90 he basically stopped dying except to corner case spawns of conviction+fanaticism/might.

    Video of the barb: here
    Video of the sorc: here

    One of the biggest issues with runs with the sorc are how much more important a good map is for her than for the barb, or to put it another way: how much more a non-optimal map hurts the sorc than the barb. I have not had good luck with trav maps, so I can't say for sure how difficult it is to get a high end one (my sorc got hers within an hour, but it is significantly worse than grip's for instance; the map in my barb vid above is bad but the best I've seen in over 3.5 hours of looking.)

    At the end of the day, those were the chars I ran the Rune Find Olympics with and the run times for each 20 hour stretch were 27.541 seconds per run for sorc and 41.516 for the barb (which went up by from 36-37 seconds in the last half of running after I spent 2 hours trying to roll a better map and gave up when I realized I was cutting it close to being able to finish and ended up with a much worse one.) My experience with running without Infinity on the sorc (froz lent me one for the tournament) was adding ~10 seconds to the average, while killing at least one less member (Toorc is always CI, but Ismail can also roll CI). That was also with a worse map, but even if we assume a good map shaves 5 seconds off, that's still 32 seconds per run average without Infinity with at least equivalent to average gear, which is roughly equivalent to around a 50 second barb? That's probably a little fast for a barb without Enigma, I assume, but certainly within the range of even like an Oath/Oath or Grief/Oath barb with Enigma and with the rune drop rates and LK drop patterns it's much easier to get Enigma than it is Death's Fathom on average. If the sorc is much slower than that she gets in the range of a 60 second barb build which, as I said in the other post above, I was around with a dual Razor's Edge + Leviathan build that I wasn't even pushing to go fast with.

    Note: I was working on this and got sidetracked several times and just saw grip's edit. Yeah I definitely think it's possible a sorc with pretty average gear could beat a barb without enigma, but when we're talking about 60 second barbs and 40 second sorcs we've kinda reached the point where trav just isn't efficient anymore. Maybe for facets and jewelry, but I think an average geared sorc could probably run meph fast enough to make up the difference, though I'm not sure on that.

    One last note to dOOmas: Grip and I are talking about efficiency here and that's of course fine for those of us who have that near the forefront of our playing decisions, but if you just want to do Travincal to mix things up feel free to run it with whatever you find fun. And even within the realm of efficiency there are also concerns of what you like and/or what you're good with. There are very good Diablo 2 players on this forum who wouldn't run a whirlwind Travincal barb even if it beat their sorceress in efficiency because they either don't like or have trouble using whirlwind, for instance. If you just want to have fun, then have fun, and since what Gripphon and I have been discussing here is aimed at high efficiency you can disregard it or take from it as you will.
     
  17. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Interesting video. I had to watch it with the speakers switched off, so I might ask what has been explained by words.

    The sorc is using 1.07 LoH with 50% fire absorb, as well as +2 BK rings which were available in a later beta patch IIRC. His other stuff is pretty impressive as well. I'm wondering a bit about the amulet having more than two affixes, even though it's magical (at 2:12). Is that the result of a particular cube or crafting recipe in a particular patch level?

    Also, it seems that the maker of the video can select the difficulty with a keystroke, rather than clicking the button with the mouse. I didn't know that, so which keys are for which difficulty? I'm assuming it doesn't need a hack, of course.
     
  18. dOOmas

    dOOmas IncGamers Member

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    Wow,thanks for all the informative replies.
    My playstyle is sort of weird,i play as efficiently as it its still fun and doesnt feel like counting each milisecond.
    i guess eni makes it easier to gear the barb without investing too much into str.
    Seems like ill have to make an eni if i ever want to be even close to competitive level.
    Thanks again to everybody on the SPF for every bit of info.
    Edit: My sorc is sort of mid-high end,missing DF and NV.
    again,merc has inf.

    P.s off to look for another PB base and another Lo for 2nd grief.
     
  19. Espr

    Espr IncGamers Member

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    I found my sorcesses harder than my barb as well. Part of that, I think, was just that my barb was better geared, but I agree that the map has a bigger effect on the sorceress. Mostly because poorer placement/distribution of the council for the barb means a loss of a seconds of efficiency. For a sorcess it means that, AND a loss of safety, which can potentially snowball into yet further loss of efficiency.

    poisonmancer on the hand couldn't care much less about placement. just sayin'.

    @krischan His amulet is a 1.07 prismatic amulet craft. The prismatic aspects of that craft are added after the fact, so they are in addition to rolled affixes and can appear on uniques and sets as well.

    @dOOmas ..less strength? Less strength. I.. barbs can have too much strength? (I tease, I'm sorry. ^^)

    In terms of ED% per Lo, Grief+Enigma is only about 65% less than Fortitude at Lv90 or so, which isn't much considering how much ED% a WW barb can collect pretty reasonably (LoH + unboosted skills alone is 500%).
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  20. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    As for strength on barb, I think that you will find out that, after you cast BO and so on, you will have tons of life if you put rest points into vitality, or will have too much AR if you put them to dexterity. Remember, Griefs have ignore target defense which means you automatically have 95% chance to hit against 8 out of 11 minions in Travincal. 4.5k AR or 5k is really the most you need using Griefs to help you hit more against bosses with -% defense mod on Griefs too. My barb from video has below 5k AR alltogether since I calculated somewhere that after that point its more profitable to put points to strength to increase damage output (using Griefs only, for Oaths limit is a bit higher). You will have 136 dexterity anyway, so I think you will have more than enough AR after that, even probably above 5k anyway.

    Naturally you will put as many points into vitality as you want to have bigger life, but usually going above 3k is not much profitable since at that point barb will already be very strong and hard to kill from council members. So, with charms on, after 4.5k - 5k AR and 3k life (or go lower if you want, I find 2.5k life barb also very strong), rest points go into strenght. Out of curiosity looked basic stats (not in-game stats) on my barb for example. Dexterity is 104, vitality 194 and strength is 252. That is my setup for 2.4k hp and sub 5k ar. Don't be scarred to invest points into strength. Unless you fear of death so you want to go with 4.5k hp, also possible option, but definitely overkill.
     

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