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Trapper PvP Questions

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by Polaris, Jun 26, 2010.

  1. Polaris

    Polaris IncGamers Member

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    Trapper PvP Questions

    I just recently geared up a trapper because I wanted to see the other spectrum of assassin pvp and just have a few questions.

    I'm running W/S setup with a Spirit phase, and spirit by itself covers the 48 fhr bp, but at the same time, I'm using sandstorm treks because I like the pr and stats. Would you recommend dropping the treks for waterwalks and a trap lifer to stay at the 48 fhr bp? or I can swap a trap lifer for fhr with the treks to hit the 86 fhr bp. Would it be worth it to hit this bp? I'm mostly participating in pub games atm doing 1v1s or general ffa.

    Would the extra 11 points in str be worth it to wear shadow dancers? +2 Shadow skills seems decent, but not amazing for a trapper, I dunno. The 30 fhr is nice, and would put me at 85 fhr with spirit, ffffffff... I'd lose the poison resist from treks though, which isnt bad vs psn necs with LR

    I have a ring slot which is free for anything since I'm not building around it. Would you recommend Bul'Kathos or something? I have dwarf and wisp in stash for specific swaps, but need a recommendation for a default ring.

    My excess points are currently going into Fire blast atm since it's a 1v1 build. I was just wondering if there are any tips on how to hit with fire blast? I cant seem to account for the delay when fireblast is in the air. Should I be precasting where I think the player should be?

    How should i setup traps? 2wof - 3ls? 1wof - 4 ls? is there actually a good balance? or should be swapping depending on who i'm dueling?

    How do you deal with excess sorb? I've been attempting to deal with it with fire blast but as you can see, I'm having issues with aiming fire blast on teleporting targets

    Are fire trappers any good? I saw a guide for a fire trapper, but it's a bit outdated so I was wondering if they're viable at the current meta-game


    Thanks in advance for any replies
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2010
  2. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    If you're just pubbin, and nothing too serious, you shouldn't have to worry too much about gear. I used to pvp with my trapper who was in pvm/mf gear.

    Hitting the 102 fcr bp makes it a lot easier to tele around while traps whittle away your opponent, though you'll want to avoid having to resort to that. However, I used a hoto/spirit monarch, I wouldn't be keen on a spirit pb even with the fhr.

    Absorb is the bane of all elemental damage, that and cyclone armor.... and a bit of ES.

    But ultimately, in a GM game you shouldn't have to worry about heavy sorb. If your lightning does no damage/heals your opponent, don't bother. You'd have a hard time keeping a stunlock with a few WoF and having to drop FB on em - and for that you'd need to be on top of them or nearly to keep a decent rate.

    Trappers are top tier duelers last I checked, but that's assuming GM. Since your primary damage is lightning, your opponent shouldn't have more than a tgods OR a wisp, and definitely not both. But if its just a pub and no one seems to care about "duels" just avoid anyone who is built to sorb.

    Wof is easier to use with MB to stunlock, but you'd be pressed for damage. It's possible to stunlock with lite traps, but its harder to get them around without your opponent teleporting to safety.

    I've yet to see a fire trapper, although I did try using them one season. The damage is poor and the top tier fire trap is just plain lousy as far as I remember. Wof is still a 1 point favorite for me though.

    Your opponent should basically be in hit recovery when you throw them FB, otherwise yes, it should miss because your opponent should be moving as soon as he/she is no longer stunned. Last I remember FB being used well on me was someone putting me into recovery then telestomping and finishing me off between a lite trap or few and fb, keeping me stunlocked till death.
     
  3. wizAdept

    wizAdept IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    you can hit 86fhr without too much problem on a spirit pb build, dancers + spirit almost hit it alone, a charm would bring you up a bp, and a charm slot is worth that. although trappers are playable at 48fhr as well which is what hoto/bos builds do.

    dancers are much worth it as they are the best trapper boots overall. both because they have amazing stats (2sd + fhr, dex is also amazing if you want a max block build which a spirit/ss build should definitely consider) and also because they are natural desync boots, which is kinda a subtle reason to use dancers but a very strong point players overlook.
    if you can get the 11 str from your equipment that would be optimal. if you want to drop 11 points in str thats quite a bit but you can always restat later if you get better equipment.

    bk vs most opponents, freedom to swap to wisp if needed. dwarf isn't needed but feel free to stash it anyway.


    the standard trap build nowadays is:
    1 fade/1 shadowmaster/1 wof
    20 mindblast
    20 ls
    60 in ls synergies (maxes out at level 99)

    if you want to go with a 1 point mindblast ls/fb build then max ls synergies first and put the rest in fb, which is what it looks like you are doing already.
    learning how to use fb is a bit tricky at first. the main strength of fb is that it uses trap ias speed, being a 9fpa attack at close range which is kinda like the speed of casting mindblast @ 174fcr. use it after telestomps to hold players in place and deal a bit of extra damage while traps do more damage. you can kill some players with fb alone as well. again it works best with telestomping.
    here is a vid of myself using a LS/fb build like yours (spirit pb, faded, maxblock ss build) with fb stomping vs an evasive blizzard sorc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwsyAW7jqew
    bunch of fbstomping tactics displayed in that vid.

    depends on who you are dueling and what is going on in the particular duel. feel it out.

    fb isn't as much of a solution to light sorb as it is a method to chase casters and hold them in place. although you could pk some pubs that throw on a lot of light sorb, keep in mind it is not that hard to absorb both elements as well.
    sorb is a problem 1v1 but really there is nothing that says they have to pk you once they start sorbing. just tele circles around them and don't bother with dueling sorbers, town if you want it's bm after all. try to mindblast them into someone else's hammers if its a pub game. if you have friends then team trappers do not care if someone is sorbing them at all. if it's 1v1 and someone is not dueling by gm rules well.. just avoid them. annoy them if anything they'll give up chasing after a while.

    nope not really, fire trappers struggle with some bad game mechanics behind wof, it doesn't do much damage, it has nextdelay so stacking more than 2-3x wof will not add more damage or stun, wof also has a longer startup shot than the initial ls shot when a target enter range which makes it much easier to avoid for players with quick reflexes, it has a much smaller area of sight, and puddles can be abused vs wof. In many cases it makes sense to use LS on a pure wof trapper to help with stunlocking. It's still a viable build but has problems.
    any pvp assassin should make use of both wof and ls for stunlocking however, of course.

    np :)
    good luck with your sin.



     
  4. Polaris

    Polaris IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    Thanks guys

    Yeah, guess I will swap to the Dancers and hit 86 fhr

    Unfortunately, my only str from equipment is from torch, anni, and enigma so I'll have to dump those 11 points into str, but w/e

    What's natural desync?
     
  5. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    IF WizAdept says its good, its good =)

    11 points is minor, remember these are the days of respecs =P

    @WizAdept

    I figured most serious trappers were c/c. So it wasn't all that uncommon for the hoto/spirit 102+FCR build as I thought?
     
  6. wizAdept

    wizAdept IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    all items that give frw but are not displayed on your opponent's end of things cause movement desync. this includes any frw granted by charms, as well as any str bugged items on your equipment. the str bug is caused by the opponent's end of things not seeing your charms, so to them it looks as though you are not wearing the gear even though you are. this extends to boots and other things, when the opponent's end of things does not see boots equipped on your character it does not see the frw as well, that causing frw desync same as using frw charms.
    Dancers have a high str req which you are likely getting by using anni/torch, meaning they will be str bugged on your opponent's end of things.

    c/c 102 is the standard.

    most w/s sins are of the shell variety, 102 spirit pb/ss, because they are quite flexible. usually built as ls/fb traditionally, started by GhOsT-Shell which was the original one years ago. although no reason it can't work as a maxed mb build as well.

    hoto/stormshield 102fcr/48fhr builds are dedicated bos setups, basically same thing as a spirit pb/ss setup except unable to fade and with a bit more +skills and resists to help getting max res on bos. not quite the caster killer (large problem vs necs) but the most anti-barb variant of trappers. and of course they would probably carry a shell type setup (spirit pb and ias equip for fade) in the stash anyway. usually max mb variants and not fb.

    hoto/spirit is used for 174sins which are quite a rarity among assassins but can be quite nice.
    a few years back it was very popular on priv realms to go with 174 vita setups with a eld'd ss/hoto/saftey amulet switch, which can reach max block @ level 99 with optimal gear at base vit. this allowed players to switch up to a 43dr/maxblock/tgods/102 setup for tpk when block/dr was needed, and switch to 174fcr when it wasn't. to my knowledge no one really does this on bnet, but it's a surprisingly strong setup for a tpk build that isn't c/c 102.

    c/c 102 is still considered the most solid build for tpk and overall though.

    102 spirit/hoto is low budget pvm/mf stuff. :p



     
  7. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    how do you hit 102 fcr c/c, is that griffon's (with cham socketed) mandatory or something?

    I did try that 174 fcr sin, was that much closer to never touching a sorc again hehe.
     
  8. wizAdept

    wizAdept IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    yes, griffons on ladder. no other way to do it. cham, ber, depends what you value more. a lot of people keep multiple griffons stashed.
    08valk being the best way to do it on nonladder.

    on a side note, 08valk is beastly for trappers. going on that natural desync topic from earlier in this thread, it is possible to fully str glitch dancers/08valk/enigma on a 102 c/c trapper. on top of just being a helm with amazing mods that blows away griffons.



     
  9. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    Awesome, I think when I first started really playing was back in .09, so I was never familiar with the valk, but definitely something for me to look into. As for the griff's used to be a fan of it but I hate how it does nothing for traps.
     
  10. wizAdept

    wizAdept IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    +1skill 25fcr hat.
    the breakpoint is more important than the damage. since you could get quite nice damage on a 65fcr c/c setup, but obviously it's not as good as using a 102 setup if you can gear up that way.
     
  11. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    I was looking up the stats for the old valk since I know they use them in SP still apparently. I'd definitely be willing to lose +skills for that, I see why it was so popular.

    My current trap is a 65 c/c - so with that said, is a 102 fcr ghost viable, as I remember Tienje recommending at least 65, but I can't recall if gear wise you'd lose too much to hit 102
     
  12. wizAdept

    wizAdept IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    ghosts profit from highlords. @102 they are kinda like flies. although that can be a fun char to play if it floats your boat. but 65fcr ghosts are the standard cause of damage.

    trappers profit a lot more from 102.



     
  13. Polaris

    Polaris IncGamers Member

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    Re: Trapper PvP Questions

    I've been lured by the damage of c/c setups

    Would you recommend a 65 c/c setup over a 102 w/s setup?

    102 c/c setups are pretty expensive, and the lack of dr is bothering me



     

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