Trading etiquette or what to do?

ZeN

Diabloii.Net Member
Trading etiquette or what to do?

I have a question, that might be considered a personal preference one, but nonetheless i want ask you that.

Recently a non-legit trader was discovered:

Link to Kremtok's post

And I, after having an impression that this aforementioned trader was legit, had a trade with him.

Trade thread

I have a policy ( as you can never tell for 100% about new members ) to put in quarantine the items i receive and those i give away for about two weeks, without using them ( unless it's a trade with a well known and respectable member ) and follow the trading of that newcomer. In my perception, if there is any chance of him being non-legit it will be discovered shortly. This time it was exactly that way.

The question is, which of the following should i do:

1. Delete received and my items and forget about the trade

2. Delete his items and reactivate mine

3. Send him his items and reactivate mine

4. Send him his items and delete mine ( as they are somewhat tainted in general point of view )

There are also options 5 and 6, but those are inacceptable to me as you can easily understand :)

I tend to the option number 1 ro 4, even though it is a harsh one.

What do you guys think? Do i try to be to strict?

Thanks

EDIT: changed options numbers...
 

Nautilus

Diabloii.Net Member
I haven't had any problems with illegitimate traders so far, but I think if I did and was in your situation, I'd delete the items and not reactivate your items.

My reasoning being for this is that even though we know the items are gone from our community, it is still a duplication of items. Somewhere out there there are copies of the items you have backed up. The less times we see duplicated items the less times we have to go through this rigamarole.

Also if you really feel cheated by the results above I would cry softly and tell the forum what you'd lost out on. There's a lot of folks in this community who give items to those who need them. Its a benefit of being in a community, a little something we call sharing.

Nautilus
 

ZeN

Diabloii.Net Member
I would do sharing my self, if it was somebody in my situation, but i most definetely won't beg or cry for the lost items. :)
 

Shagsbeard

Diabloii.Net Member
Happened to me a while back. I traded two skillers for an illegit HoZ. Milamber was nice enough to replace the illegit HoZ with a legit one (I suppose). The illegit HoZ was then deleted along with my two skillers. Problem with this game is that there is really no way to tell legit from illegit other than trust.

In the opinions presented to me at the time, if you keep your items they are illegit. They have duplicates out there somewhere, therefor they are bad. You got shafted in a trade, and many on this forum would be able to replace your loss.

My policy is now and for ever more never to trade something I wouldn't mind deleting. That keeps me out of the high end trades pretty much, which is fine by me.
 

galtzaiLe

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, i like to be honest with myself, that means no dupes, editors, etc... so i think i would pick option #4

I agree with you ZeN that is hard to trust in new members.
I am a new member, and that's why i didn't intend to trade anything until i gain your trust :p
 

Zhao_Yue

Diabloii.Net Member
Wasn't there a similar discussion a while back where one suggestion is to put new members on a probation period?

It does bother me that from time to time, new members suddenly appear and trade high TC's without much concern. Many regular forum members are more than willing to trade for them in a speedy fashion.

Another point thought is, does it follow that if you have the ability to find high end items, you have been playing for quite some time and therefore have a general idea of the value of your items?
 

HBeachBabe

Diabloii.Net Member
I suspect most people here will tell you to delete the items you traded away as well as the ones you received and hope that some nice forumites will replace your lost items, thus rendering any "quarintine" system useless. Personally, I disagree. If you know the received items are from a bad trader who has since been banned and no longer part of this community, I don't consider the items you traded away "dupes" since the "dupes" are gone, out of the trade pool and out of the community. The forum stance punishes the honest trader, but it is what most people around here believe. Fortunately, I have never dealt with a bad trader so I haven't had to argue for my right to keep my traded items, but If it were to happen, I would certainly make the case for keeping your originals. I think of it as canceling a check written for goods never received. YMMV
 

Hrus

Diabloii.Net Member
From legitimacy point, it is even worse for you ZeN. Because if you have played some time with illegit items, all your finds are tainted. And you can't probably remember what have you found in that period...

That's why I don't trade.
 

Fafner

Diabloii.Net Member
Hrus said:
From legitimacy point, it is even worse for you ZeN. Because if you have played some time with illegit items, all your finds are tainted. And you can't probably remember what have you found in that period...

That's why I don't trade.
I think that's a little extreme to say all of his finds are tainted. Unless he received an ali baba's with two 1000% MF jewels or the like, I think he can just do as HBB recommends and move on.

As part of the forum response, I like Sint's idea. Very generous. The other part, enforcement, changing the rules, I'll leave up to our able mods.
 

tenaka

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't find it extreme at all. I've done complete char/item wipes twice because of similar (but larger scale) situations. It really encourages you to know who you are trading with rather than saying 'no one has proven them a cheater yet' Lately I've seen a lot of people, even the witchhunters, trading with people on their first day in the forum. It wobbles my mind. I don't mean to imply that new people are cheaters, just that no one knows. More caution would go a long way to keeping the trade pool clean rather than the current obsession of getting as much perfect gear as soon as possible. *coughbnetcough*

However I think Zen's quarantine idea is great and probably saved him from even having to worry about having tainted himself.
 

water_moon

Diabloii.Net Member
Hrus said:
From legitimacy point, it is even worse for you ZeN. Because if you have played some time with illegit items, all your finds are tainted. And you can't probably remember what have you found in that period...
That's why they were "quarantined" so he didn't use the possibliy questionalable items or let them taint chars. Very smart over all. I tend to agree w/ HBB that the items you traded for them were never really given to him. I'd deleate the stuff he sent you (why give it back? he'll make more) and reactivate your items like the trade never was. Unless you thik he'll send you back your things if you send his back.

Think of it like a lost e-mail. The data in it was corrupted, you never recived what you agreed to recieve, what would you do if you sent a mule but never got one in return? Why would anyone keep any items sent for any period of time if afraid of a duel copy? Why wait to recive confirmation? Who's to say they aren't lying about not reciveing it? All trust issues and he's not to be trusted as we've found out. But follow your own conscience.
 

Chimaira

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm with Hrus here...All trading involves risk and no matter how trusted a person is you can never know...Even your best friend in the whole world will probably lie to you more than once in the time you have known him. And when you consider how easy it is to lie online...I'd never even consider trading, unless I saw the item drop with my own eyes, and even then I wouldn't do it. It's a chimera to think that all the items in the Single Player Trading pool are legit...no way that is possible. Sometimes when you see what is being traded and the nonchalance in the handling of high-end items you can't help but wonder...
 

shermo

Diabloii.Net Member
Chimaira said:
It's a chimera to think that all the items in the Single Player Trading pool are legit...no way that is possible.
are you implicating yourself? :p

Indeed. I'm less comfortable with having a separate trading forum. Back in the day, when it was part of the spf, I think there were fewer new faces. Almost everyone who posted in that thread posted elsewhere. And due to it being a part of the forum as a whole, more people kept an eye on what was going on.

I've only made one trade since it went solo. (for a skiller)
 

ZeN

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks for the replies, guys. The idea of trading with people, who are yet to be considered trustworthy, was somewhat stupid on my side, but the quarantine thing is working and that makes me happy :). The idea behind the SPF trading is trust, though, and my conception on it: innocent until proven guilty...

Well, it can be a valueable lesson for all of us to learn and may be work a little bit on some overall policy to obtain.

Keep'em coming - i bet we can come up with something.

As for my decision - its 1. I have deleted the items and, even though its a costy decision, it doesn't bother me that much. I look at it that way: i could live without those items after trade - i can continue to do so.
 

mad.as.a.meataxe

Diabloii.Net Member
Good choice ZeN. As I see it, it depends on whether you want to be seen as 100% clean by everyone you're likely to trade with. If you went with any option but 1 you'd automatically go on some folks non-trade lists. While I don't trade (though give away the odd item) the idea that I might want to one day would definitely make me try to stay clean (including non-use of mods).
 
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