Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

DWS

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

There's a fine line between abuse of too many WPs and TPs, and spending 5 minutes just running through content you've already completed.

One thing to think about is end game TP abuse vs early game. In D1 the TP scrolls were somewhat precious. In D2 you had so much cash by lvl 2 it didn't matter you can just buy up 10 in the tome or you could hop WPs.

I'll be honest though I have not really ever been involved in the D2 bnet community as I really do not like the culture.
 

rCt Arbitur

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

I'd love if they incorporated survivability and creative thinking in the game. like if you dont have a teleport you will have to run or think of something smart to get rid of your foes combining terrain and spells. Like a wizards Time Bomb; use it near a doorway then when the enemies comes through you just spam at them with your strongest spells. I remember playing with my trap assassin in D2 when i ran out of mana ALL the time, i had to use the terrain to lure the enemies into lines/packs then try to place my traps so they would hit as much as possible since it took like 20-40 seconds before i had enough mana for another trap (lol :crazyeyes:)

I dont think they should take away teleport scrolls completely. BUT make them very rare. Like make them cost alot and make them timed so their not up forever (enough time to maybe stash some items). This would make teleports very expensive and wanted by players, like if you find a teleport scroll and your like: w00t im rich $$$ then sell to a rich player for a nice amount of gold or just keep incase of emergency.
 

Knight_Wolf

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

I dont think they should take away teleport scrolls completely. BUT make them very rare. Like make them cost alot and make them timed so their not up forever (enough time to maybe stash some items). This would make teleports very expensive and wanted by players, like if you find a teleport scroll and your like: w00t im rich $$$ then sell to a rich player for a nice amount of gold or just keep incase of emergency.
Hahaha, that would work pretty well, but still making TPs hard to get while making them available to a good extent at the same time can be a little hard to balance ... hope Blizz can get this done.


 

Tidexian

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

If blizz didnt mean for people to use the ****ing portals they wouldnt have put them in the game....they are there so people can use em if people choose to abuse there portal powers....WHO CARES, single player is ftw man....if you dont like people abusing em, dont play online...
 

Knight_Wolf

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

If blizz didnt mean for people to use the ****ing portals they wouldnt have put them in the game....they are there so people can use em if people choose to abuse there portal powers....WHO CARES, single player is ftw man....if you dont like people abusing em, dont play online...
Sigh, i advice you to go back and read few of the replies, not everything the Blizz puts in the game works the way they intended .. there is something called BAD game design .. and all developer are prone to make BAD choices and get unexpected results they never took into account.

Not to mention the D3 team is not the same team that made D2 .. those guys went off and made HGL and other games elsewhere.

As for TPs ... the TPs from D2 don't fit with D3 design .. short and clear ... they know they need to change them like they did to potions or scrap them and replace them with something else .. big deal .. the whole skills system changed 180 degrees from D1 to D2 and it was by 200% a great decision XD


 

KnS

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

I agree with your first suggestion...
The third isnt that far out either...
but the other 1 is a bit ridiculus
and 200k for a TP?
Im pretty sure they are going to make gold harder to get in a big way :D
to help it be the main currency
Just my opinion
 

Ishtor

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

I agree with your first suggestion...
The third isnt that far out either...
but the other 1 is a bit ridiculus
and 200k for a TP?
Im pretty sure they are going to make gold harder to get in a big way :D
to help it be the main currency
Just my opinion
it would be nice to have a controled currency, we could still set the prices but be nice to always know it would be gold.

Tps do need to changed though wiht what direction they are taking the game, i dont want the removed completly but would like some restriction on them.


 

BovinusRex

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Play my way or Hit the Highway seems to be gist of far too many posts here. Just because one person likes to have fun a certain way doesn't mean everyone else enjoys that. The fact that someone else might be having fun playing the game a different way shouldn't trouble anyone.

If town portal makes it to easy to run away, than don't use it to run away when you are playing.

If you don't like giving portals to people asking for them, don't cast a portal for them.

If you don't like people leeching off you, don't join their party or let them join yours.

With the thousands (at one point hundreds of thousands) of people playing Diablo on Bnet at any given time, you should be able to find a group of people who enjoy playing the game the same way you do. Finding people you enjoy being around is a social skill worth developing, and if more people on Bnet had this skill they would find their gaming time far more enjoyable and successful.

If someone isn't in the same game with you, what difference does it make whether they are suffering and struggling at every twist and turn, or getting through the game without much trouble? When someone’s pain is someone else’s joy, than the former is simply a griefer no matter what ideals they pretend to hold.

The game is supposed to be fun. Difficulty does not equal fun in all cases. Would it be more fun for the programmers to be forced to code the game in Cobol? Would it be more fun for the lawyers battling pirating if companies were forced to take all copyright protection and CD keys off the games? Should five random Blizzard employees go without a paycheck each month so they can have more FUN with the paychecks they do get?

If challenge is the only measure of fun, than we can all go back to some of the the joys of Diablo I, like your character losing all their gear when they die. Go back to the fun of the old lag monster ready to eat your game at any time. Stash size? Forget all about that stash and that wimpy backpack too. Characters get what they can wear and use sounds more fun because it’s more difficult right? No towns, no checkpoints, no health globes, and no running. Just the pure FUN of waiting for your character to heal and a long slow walk everywhere. In fact, forget using the mouse, let's all just use key combinations to make things even more fun.

No thank you. Been there and done that in too many other games where the programmers excluded user friendly options. When I was playing these non Diablo games, I kept thinking why did the programmers drain all the fun out of the game by making things unnecessarily difficult. I had played great games made by Blizzard, and I knew better. There is a time and a place for challenge, but the user interface with entering and exiting active play isn't it.

If too many players are abusing the town portals to run away from battles, than that suggests either a fundamental game design flaw or a player flaw. Neither Blizzard or any other human entity is going to fix flaws in the player's psyche. Players should be relishing every moment of the big battles. Leaving a battle with a town portal should leave the player with as much anguish as having the television go out during the last minutes of a close playoff game with your favorite sports team.

If characters are getting persistently blown to bits by the monsters and are leaving because of that, than either the monster needs to be toned down, or the game set up so that characters can't get to that monster without being better prepared (Killing monster level N or completing quest level N before being allowed into a portal for a level N area for instance).


Blizzard has a strong following because they make fun games, and I think town portal is a key part of an online, multiplayer real time game. With town portal to take an instant break, you can handle that brief phone call from the real world and not have to leave and rejoin a game.

A brief cool down period could be used for town portal, but then that idea could be used to nerf all kinds of spells and skills. A character could only be allowed to carry one town portal scroll and the town vendor only replenishing their supply of scrolls on a timed basis. All sorts of methods could be used to limit it, but none of them address the underlying cause of the so called town portal abuse.

Game balance and overall game design would fix most of the "abuse". Having useful items drop when your character can and still might use them, or realistic item stat/level requirements for instance. They could try overall re-scaling of the whole game so that Boffo the Barbarian doesn't have 18,427,547,302 hit points and do twice his hit points in damage with an axe that's three times the size of the Statue of Liberty. Don't let the game get out of control in the first place, either with the characters, the gear, the skills or the monsters. Three difficulty levels might not be enough for the wide span of character levels Diablo allows. Does it mean some more work for Blizzard to get it right in the first place? Yeah, it does. But, it will also mean a game that has a much better flow throughout. A game whose challenges are anticipated and sought after. A game that players around the world will look to as the pinnacle of what a game can be.

I don't buy Blizzard always knows best. They thought they knew best when they decided not to make PK'ing optional in Diablo II. Giving people more options usually means more fun. Less options seldom means more fun. If it did, why bother letting us choose our character types, skills etc?

Just for the record, I'm not an anti-challenge player. I don't mind the heaping helping of humble pie. I do mind the time wasted over and over on game mechanics that add little if nothing to game play. The walkathon as RPG is not my cup of tea. Things that make it simpler and quicker to get to and from the real action in a game like town portals and waypoints are good IMO.

I've enjoyed playing all sorts of characters, from the unusual builds to the cookie cutters, ironman, and even the oddball zero point characters. If you want a bit of a challenge try making Wirt's leg your character's only piece of gear. Whether its agonizing endless deaths at the hands of a creature you just can't seem to kill (Think Deathspit) or just cruising along chatting and blasting everything that moves to smithereens (which is possible with any well thought out and played co-op group), it can all be fun. Just let other players choose how they decide to have fun and play, and you can choose how you want to play.

For me a large part of the fun from Bnet games comes from interacting with the other players in the game. It's not just about me or my character. Any change in town portal that limit the way I can interact with other players could seriously diminish the game's potential for fun.
 

Krugar

Banned
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Top post, BovinusRex. And your first at that! Did enjoy very much reading through and we share a similar view on this issue.

I'd like to throw in another thought, if you don't mind.

There's an unfortunate natural tendency to handle game design problems by thinking the problem gets solved by removing it. Often the solution is exactly not remove the problem, but solve the problem. And I'm a firm believer this is the issue with TPs.

It's been clear Blizzard sees TPs as a problem, as do some players. This is fine. But instead of removing TPs, the best solution is often found by taking a look at the actual source and solve it. It's not TPs that create a problem. They in fact solved a lot of them by allowing players to quickly get in and out of the action... on a game one wants fast paced. The real problem was the lack of defensive code to avoid the exploitation of the game feature called Town Portals.

This very much has been acknowledged already by Blizzard itself when they mentioned the reasons behind them not liking TPs. What was worrying was however the posture of not fixing the problem, but to simply remove it altogether... creating immediately another one; how to get players fast back into the action? The waypoints solution is so far, unsatisfying because it is forcing players to walk back and forth every time they wish to remove themselves from the action and go back into it. A player must always be given the choice to play the game at their own pace.

It's not without a surprise that Blizzard itself is thus reevaluating their initial position on this matter, since it became clear to them simply removing TPs is not solving the problem.

...

My stance on this issue has been an attempt to be moderate about my criticism. I do agree that some aspects of Town Portals need to be addressed. It's is true that players can simply choose not to exploit TPs in D2 and avoid being around anyone who does. But the presence of this possibility has a psychological effect that must not be denied.

A solution that strips TPs of any tactical advantage in combat is my only concern. And in this context I see no reason to remove TPs. On the contrary. There are solutions already on this thread (and Blizzard has the potential to come with even better ones) that can alter TPs behavior, solving the problem of them being used as tactical tools in combat, while maintaining and respecting their always intended purpose: to allow players to control their own game flow and move them fast between these options.

EDIT: One of the most criticized features of D1 was the fact players couldn't run, slowing down their game pace. In an hypothetical D3 in which TPs didn't exist and players would have to go back and forth between waypoints every time they wished to visit town and go back into the "dungeon", there would almost certainly be a similar criticism. Especially after players experienced in D2 a much more convenient alternative.
 

isak viking

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

things that make it simpler and quicker to get to and from the real action in a game like town portals and waypoints are good IMO.

I've enjoyed playing all sorts of characters

For me a large part of the fun from Bnet games comes from interacting with the other players in the game. It's not just about me or my character. Any change in town portal that limit the way I can interact with other players could seriously diminish the game's potential for fun.
all around great poste, just had to quote this. because this is the shiit. i couldnt have said it better myself.. maybe because my english sux, but very good point. does the rest of the party have to wait if u used the only portal u could use this hour.. if the portals will have cooldowns.. where does the fun go?:agree:


 

Ishtor

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

i can say i agree with that too! but at the same time you will need to relize as they said before, Blizzard is add new system in the games, that will also solve alot of these issues tps where ther to solve. This including players join the action where you are and a better invitory system. Please Keep in mind that the way we use tps now, some of these reason will have new solution, having an end result where tp wont be as needed and having a CD on them will not hurt too much. By the way i think you are right when you say tps are a problem, but they are not THE problem, there was other issue evolved, which at the same time i know Blizzard is trying to fix with another method to deliever us the best game they can, and that is what we deserve after waiting so much time for this game.

Keep in mind when i started posting in this thread, i was hardcore TPs do not need to be changed at all, then when i read the debate back and forth and could see both side, i was able to make a new educated disiccion. (sorry for any bad spelling) Not one person on this forum can not say they abuse the use of TP's, everyone does it, its like a drug.

i will state the way the designed D2, at the time the town portal scroll was the best solution, but with how things are today, with all the new ideas and systems used in other games, and having a new team make this game, we will see changes and inprovements. We might nit like the change as the describe it, but after it is all done, and we get to play i am sure everyone will enjoy it.
 

PahaLukki

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Gahd.... People just play D1 and look how it is. You get portal scrolls from library rooms which only spawn on levels 1-8! That and portals cost 200 gold at the witch. As a reference my Lord's Sword cost 40 000 and when I bought it I had 60 000 and this was during caves I think. So 200 is no small sum. Common leather armor only gives 75 gold at Griswold, so you have to carry 4 of those just to pay the portal. But then again, you can get the town portal spell (but mana costs too as it doesn't replenish unless you lvl up!).

I actually remember running out of portals.

So here's the deal: make portals cost like 200-500 gold and not a droppable item, instead make 'em as loot in libraries, and... problem is solved. You'll be carrying like 1 portal to get out. And no tomes for portals, 1 scroll, 1 slot.. It's a huge scroll you know, with a blueprint of a portal...

Secondary suggestion is to make the monsters primarily drop gold or something small and that is worth something to the merchants in town, or the dungeon chests could be filled with ample gold. If gold's not an inventory item, and if the merchants would sell everything from rings to swords, then it wouldn't matter, as long as the sold stuff was viable gameplay wise... and there you have it, inventory problem solved. But then there's the problem of finishing quests and getting new ones. I suppose the waypoints would do.

An additional problem is that if loot is primarily gold, then going "ironman" into dungeons isn't available anymore. So you have to be very stocked before you go and you can't keep improvising as long as you could with item-based loot, and eventually have to come to town via waypoint or something.

I'd say this is a non-issue. Town portals are fine. You can't limit casting by monster presence because in dungeons you can be behind locked doors and not know what danger lurks next door yet you might want to cast tp and if that tp says no can do, you know there's monsters and that's just nuts. The only idea I liked here was a longer cast time and high vulnerability to attacks during casting tp. Cooldowns sound horrific. What if there is lots and lots of loot to transfer? Run?

You could always just make inventories really huge..
 

Chorkstain

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

That's a sucky example, who carries 4 leather armours in their inventory? In Diablo 1, running out of Town Portals happened because you forget to buy them, not because you ran out of gold.

Maybe if you didn't pick up random bits of armour and **** for money, instead looking for artifacts to sell like a real treasure hunter, there wouldn't be such a big problem. They should make it so that carrying excess armour is not viable! Decrease inventory size!
 

PahaLukki

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Not really, I shipped everything worth over 100 or even near 100 to town with TPs. Then again that's not really good gameplay. But TPs off just because they take away from immersion is a bit vague as well. I mean look at that barbarian. Pauldrons the size of a camel, stomp attacks, flashing red arc sweep attacks, gigantic leaps.. it's patheticly ridiculous disney land combat already (you might only add the *KAPOW* bubbles like in that batman seriea and it would be perfect..) and TPs won't make jack **** difference to immersion anymore. They hardly took any away from D1 either, as D1 was so diabolical to the core that only a handful of spells were a little off.. namely guardian maybe. And that overbright lava pool animation..
 
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