Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

[Akse]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Don't they replace tp's with checkpoints and waypoints.

Checkpoints are something that you return into if you die? iirc. So no more corpse runs.
There will probably be more waypoints.

I'd only take townportals if they are rare or really expensive to buy.

 

[Ishtor]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

The one thing I don't see about this thread, and pardon me if it's been covered and I missed...is one of the other reasons for "TP Abuse" and the removal of a "sense of isolation" is the fact that some characters under the current model are inherently superior at surviving on their own.

Case in point, how many times does a low level sorc (if not "abusing" the TP mechanic) have to stand around waiting to refill mana prior to continuing? She's not trying to gank the system, but rather trying to get back to the "adventure" as quickly as possible. Being able to refill items for certain classes like the amazon (arrows,bolts, javelins), sorcs(mana pots), or even repairs on good mod weapons that are low durability for the fighter classes?

{Before you fire, I understand potions are being dealt with as a separate issue, but since they fit the scenario, I thought they warranted inclusion.}

Is it unrealistic to expect a warrior class to have to switch to a secondary weapon if their major weapon becomes damaged and they are not allowed to "Jump" back to town to effect repairs anymore because of a "sense of isolation" or a sorceress to have to stop every time they run out of mana? That's one of the many reasons people in movies are never caught re-loading...it takes away from the action...so the quicker the re-load(refill, repair, whatever) the faster the action can resume.

I think if these actions can still be accomplished with the removal of TP's, then fine, but I think the TP are a necessary evil that could survive just fine if some of the other ideas presented here are implemented without the removal of the "TP mechanic".

Just my 2gp.

well said......... :coffee:

 

[Knight_Wolf]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Case in point, how many times does a low level sorc (if not "abusing" the TP mechanic) have to stand around waiting to refill mana prior to continuing? She's not trying to gank the system, but rather trying to get back to the "adventure" as quickly as possible. Being able to refill items for certain classes like the amazon (arrows,bolts, javelins), sorcs(mana pots), or even repairs on good mod weapons that are low durability for the fighter classes?

All the points you mentioned could have mattred if we were talking about D2 .. but in D3 things are 180 degrees diffrent .. and that's why TPs benefits are almost all gones and nothing is left of them other than their downsides.

Meaning:-

-Bow using class won't need to refill arrows or <insert throwable weapon> because ammo for throwable weapons is removed.

-Wizard (or any caster) won't need to wait for mana to fill because of few things ... wizard has melee enhancing skills both low level, hi level .. and there is a skill to make mana orbs drop more often .. and the WD has soul harvest.

-You won't need to fix anything because durability is removed from the game.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

The one thing I don't see about this thread, and pardon me if it's been covered and I missed...is one of the other reasons for "TP Abuse" and the removal of a "sense of isolation" is the fact that some characters under the current model are inherently superior at surviving on their own.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what is this "sense of isolation" in Diablo 2. Or is it just being used to artificially (read, dishonestly) add a new argument to the debate?

After 8 years of Diablo 2, this "sense of isolation" is a first for me. Did you just discovered something new about the game? Hmm?

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what is this "sense of isolation" in Diablo 2.

Its just not there. It never had it because of Tps.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Its just not there. It never had it because of Tps.

I see... hmm... I feel I could say something. But I reserve that type of speech to my close friends when they say something really dumb. You, on the other hand, would be offended and I would get a ban.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Well you want an explanation here it is

Sorry but TP as it was in D2 wont return, it has no point in discussing, every argument was already explained here and the new direction of the game has already been pointed out by the main head developer of the game and he considered the way how TPs worked in D2 as something bad to the game and thus, TPs might return but will never return as they were in D2.

If you cant see how badly they worked in the game and what means sense of isolation with some ability that allows you to return to safety any time you please, then... well... there is nothing I can add, once again everything was already covered I dont understand what the difficulty in understanding the damage that TPs would make to Diablo 3.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Dammit kiroptus!
You folks really need to read the threads before posting on them...

You failed to read my early arguments. I'm not into having TPs work exactly the same as they did in D2. I will say again; I can understand there is a need to change the mechanics of TPs.

But what I do not agree at all is this notion that to defend our position anything goes. A good debate starts with the principle that both parties will be in their best behavior. They will try to listen to the other side, counter their arguments, accept they will probably have to concede on some points (I have started this debate not wanting to change TPs, and now I understand there is a need to). And definitely they will not invent new terms that don't belong at all to the game and try to secretly pass them as valid arguments.

All of a sudden I start hearing about "sense of isolation", because one person mentioned this. Al of a sudden this becomes some feature of Diablo 2 no one ever heard about before. All of a sudden this is also an important feature. So important, it should demand TPs to be either removed or altered. So, a non existing game feature that is not a part of what this game was intended to be becomes the holy grail of the Anti-TP Movement.

This I call intellectual dishonesty. Trying to sway people's opinions basing oneself on false premises. I'm sorry, but that's not the way to have a honest debate. If you want a feeling of isolation, ask for it on the official forums. Don't pretend it was some feature of D2 that somehow was destroyed by TPs. TPs existed in Diablo 2 exactly as they were planned to exist. So you can safely say there was no intention to have a "sense of isolation" in D2. Blizzard didn't want it. They didn't make a game so that you felt alone and far away from a safe heaven.

If you feel this is important in D3, fine. Argue in that context. Say "I want a feeling of isolation in D3". Don't make it look like D2 portals destroyed a game feature that was never there in the fist place and because of that TPs broke the game. There are many other reasons to complain about portals in D2. And all of them have already been addressed on this thread.

EDIT: Not even mentioning that the so-called "feeling of isolation" is a personal feeling. And as such can be controlled by the player. If they wish that feeling, they can establish their own rules for TPs usage and play that way. So the "feeling of isolation" argument isn't even a particularly bright argument.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

*sigh*

Its pure logic. Its about being actually more immersed into the game's story and the situation, "sense of isolation" is a concept that was never present in D2 but It SHOULD have been there. Its about going into the depths of hell itself but with some actual difficulty of returning to safety, what TPs did in D2 is to completely take that out and I am not speaking only of bosses here, why should bosses be the only places where we believe its fair to have limitations on Town Portal? You should be encountering difficulties among the journey that you would have to face without always having the ability to ressuply and heal ALL the time.

What the point of going through so many dangerous places when in fact you are always one step from civilization, safety, convenience and healing supplies. It was like that in D2 BUT that doesnt mean its right! Lets get to the point: To nowdays standards, Diablo 2: LOD and Diablo 2 classic are AWFULLY badly designed. I love Diablo 2. I also hate Diablo 2. I learned to see through it, I am not blind by the good moments I spent with the game, it IS badly designed, the way how TP did function was WAY too convenient for players and bad for the immersion and it should be rightfully adressed now.

I just dont understand the difficulty of grasping this concept into Diablo 3. I honestly think you are just inventing this barrier to get this.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

I honestly think you are just inventing this barrier to get this.

No. I'm not inventing a barrier. I'm trying to keep the debate open-minded, honest and to the point.

A barrier is this:

what TPs did in D2 is to completely take that out

No. TPs didn't take anything out that wasn't meant to be there in the first place. If you had accompanied the development of D2 back then you would know this. That TPs in D1 and D2 were created exactly as they wanted. A quick means for players to move into town and back to action, since some of the game features planned such as item repairs, gambling or questing were all town-centered and forced players to constant visits.

So blame it on the decisions that lead to the problem. Not the solution that was TPs.

Now, I can for sure take the argument the one would like D3 to introduce a feeling of isolation. I don't agree it should, mind you. But I can take that argument and could debate it. What I cannot agree is what I said on my previous post.

One last time... please, Lets not use false arguments. TPs have been bashed enough on this thread already. Everyone is convinced something needs to be done. There is no need to invent new (and false) arguments against TPs usage in D2.

*sigh*

I mean no harm Kiroptus. Do not take me wrong. It's just an attitude that bothers me particularly and which I tend to be more vocal.

I do happen to consider you and Knight_Wolf good people. I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, and certainly you don't have to agree with me. But it's because I have been reading you folks posts on other issues and slowly started building my respect for how you expose your opinions, that it bothers me and makes me mad the fact on this particular issue you are choosing to trade rational thought for low opinion swaying.

 

[ThomasJ]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

TPs have been with Diablo since the beginning. I just couldn't imagine not having any. If you start taking away all the things that made Diablo, it is not going to feel like Diablo whatsoever when we finally get to play.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

TPs in D1 and D2 were created exactly as they wanted. A quick means for players to move into town and back to action, since some of the game features planned such as item repairs, gambling or questing were all town-centered and forced players to constant visits.

This is where the bad design comes. In the old times we didnt realise, it looked naturally but nowdays we can see that it was just that: bad design. It wasnt a "means to take the player quickly into the action" it was the oppossite, it was always a HALT in the action. D3 is taking most of those needs out and its easier to see how unnecessary those halts were.

But saying that Diablo never wanted or claimed to drive the player into a hostile enviroment is denial. The concept of the game is to throw the player into that but it was borked because of the convinience of the TPs.

But it's because I have been reading you folks posts on other issues and slowly started building my respect for how you expose your opinions, that it bothers me and makes me mad the fact on this particular issue you are choosing to trade rational thought for low opinion swaying.

Im sorry but I do think its quite valid to believe that isolation and danger do belong in diablo and should always be there.


It ALWAYS felt very cheap to the immersion and I cant understand how anyone could deny it, not only because of boss fights but in the whole game itself. Giving players control over when to return is not wise. That is the problem with Diablo 2, it gave too much freedom to the player. It might sound like its a good thing but its not and we know it from the game's history. The freedom to PK, the freedom to TP, to rush, to whatever the hell players wanted just dont work on a MP enviroment because the whole community will want to play the game in most cheap way possible, taking out the player's control over TP is a good thing and will help people adapt to their situations quickly.

Now, I can for sure take the argument the one would like D3 to introduce a feeling of isolation. I don't agree it should, mind you. But I can take that argument and could debate it. What I cannot agree is what I said on my previous post.

Sorry but you once said that TPs are "iconic" to Diablo I would certainly argue against that but whatever the point is, you believe that TPs are iconic and that they are important to the game and cant see the harm they did to the immersion. If you believe that D2 never wanted to make players feel isolated in the depths of hellish dungeon, that it was fine for everyone to return to civilization as they pleased, ok. But thats your view, you believe that Diablo never intended to have this feeling but I have to disagree. I dont think its a weak argument at all and I would add that I believe its one of the stronger reasons of its removal/big nerfing in D3.

Just like you think its a low opinion swaying I do believe that you are in no condictions to be impartial (sp?) to this subject as you claimed many times that TPs are iconic to the series and to me, "iconic" is quite a strong word.

TPs have been with Diablo since the beginning. I just couldn't imagine not having any. If you start taking away all the things that made Diablo, it is not going to feel like Diablo whatsoever when we finally get to play.

Tps have always been there because of the need to return to town all the time, now its not necesarry nor it is good to the immersion so it should be rightfully adressed.

PK has been with Diablo since the beginning and its a horrible concept for an instanced game like Diablo, so it was rightfully removed. In the times that Diablo was developed gaming design and balance wasnt as much as a science as it is nowdays, if Diablo 3 would return with too many elements from its past interations without any changes we would end up with a game with an outdated design just like how Diablo 2 is nowdays.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

It's a shame it ended that way. My participation in this debate has ended. I have said all there was to say.

 

[Ishtor]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

It's a shame it ended that way. My participation in this debate has ended. I have said all there was to say.

i think you did a good job holding up your part of the debate, and think you were well spoken.

but anyways, this is how i see it. Like previous stated TP's are in both game, taking all these funstion away changes what we know, altering or nerfing based on new developements is the way to go.

If you are going to say D2 was badly designed, you are very narrow minded Kiroptus, i dont want to affend you but you have to keeo stuff in mind. This game is over 8 years old, we have more ideas and functions available to us now then we did then. When D2 was created it was very well designed, blizzard make the best quality games, the deffantly believe quality of quanity, and they have the trek record to prove that. If this was a new game i would agree with you, but its not.

and now unto the phrase, "feeling of isolation." until the first person that posted that phrase, it was never even thought of as a defence. all though thing will be different in D3 for sure, there will never be a feeling of isolation. This is not Resident Evil or Silent Hill where you have no support untill you beat everything and get out. This is a party game, they want us to party and interact, other wise they would not put this online for us to play together. If you want this feeling play by your self and with the light off.

Things about Diablo have came Iconic with the game. TP defantly have done this, not the scrolls it self but the portal itself. Because of how things arwere designed this funtion was needed.

1) Repair and Restock - repairing your items and geting pots and arrows when you needed them was a needed thing. Sorc with out mana is useless, along with a amazon with arrow for her bow. D3 this will not be needed as much since item will no longer have durability ( which i think is dumb, another thing they are taking away; and very un-realistic to all those that think they went to cartoony with the graphics theres something else for you to complain about) and they will have have no ammo.

2)party play - having a friend come play with you as fast as posssible, this also will not be needed in d3 do to the new improved WP system.

3)empty inventory - hold charms among other thing, your 40 space could become filled quickly. but in D3 there no charms to worry about i think and the new inventory will allow you to hold more.


Town portal needed to be altered but not removed. This is a great item in the game, and did not ruin D2. If you abused a feature like this, what ruined the game was your self. you make your own choices, and chooseing to abuse something til it no fun is your own fault. but sadley most things tps did and people have complained about still will be there, but in different forms.

the only thing you wont be able to do is go back to town when ever you want, but at the same time and to be fair, with what they said there wont be much need to go back. Also alot of these reason Tps are are still going to be there but this time with out us having to use an item.

it has been recomended before, and i agree with it fully now they jsut need a small cool down, like 5 - 10 minutes at most.

 

[Knight_Wolf]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

but anyways, this is how i see it. Like previous stated TP's are in both game, taking all these funstion away changes what we know, altering or nerfing based on new developements is the way to go.

Agree, but how far would that altering or nerfing go .. what if TPs ended up becoming completely unneeded and was replaced by other different mechanics that do the job better and fit D3.

1) Repair and Restock - repairing your items and geting pots and arrows when you needed them was a needed thing. Sorc with out mana is useless, along with a amazon with arrow for her bow. D3 this will not be needed as much since item will no longer have durability ( which i think is dumb, another thing they are taking away; and very un-realistic to all those that think they went to cartoony with the graphics theres something else for you to complain about) and they will have have no ammo.

Good you know things are different in D3.

2)party play - having a friend come play with you as fast as posssible, this also will not be needed in d3 do to the new improved WP system.

There is a function (a scroll for now) to be used only in town so that a player can catch up to his/her party who are out there fighting.

That's beside the WP system.

Town portal needed to be altered but not removed. This is a great item in the game, and did not ruin D2. If you abused a feature like this, what ruined the game was your self. you make your own choices, and chooseing to abuse something til it no fun is your own fault.

When given the choice most people will choose the most cheap way to do things ... that's why some things should be more under control or regulated according to the will of the game designer not the player .. besides .. you don't play the game by yourself .. there are others ... putting aside what Kiroptus mentioned about the sense of isolation and flow of action (which i agree with but will only influence SP) it does have effects on PvP as well .. there is no denying that.

it has been recomended before, and i agree with it fully now they jsut need a small cool down, like 5 - 10 minutes at most.

The cool down is one way to do it .. but i think it needs more than that .. make a little harder to purchase or something along those lines .. that if there is really a need for it to stay in the game.

-----------------------------------------------------

i think you did a good job holding up your part of the debate, and think you were well spoken.

True, nice contribution Krugar ... see you around

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

In fact, I feel there's something else that needs to be said.

You said some things, Kiroptus, that really bothered me. And I need to get it of my chest...

But saying that Diablo never wanted or claimed to drive the player into a hostile enviroment is denial.

Where did I say that?
Quote me exactly where I said that. I want you to do it.
And when you find you can't actually do it, may it serve you as a lesson to not put words in other people's mouth... or on this case writing.

Im sorry but I do think its quite valid to believe that isolation and danger do belong in diablo and should always be there.

It is valid to have an opinion. But it is not valid to turn your opinion into a fact and use that new "fact" as a weapon to convince others of your opinion. Read that again if it confuses you.

And despite all my attempts you keep ignoring my appeals for better judgment. So here you have it:

Contrary to you, I was there 8 years ago discussing Diablo 2 during development. I know perfectly well how and why Town Portals were made the way they were. You, obviously don't. You keep insist in ignoring my comments on this issue and come up with your fabricated story. But you sir have no idea of what you are talking about.

Just like you think its a low opinion swaying I do believe that you are in no condictions to be impartial (sp?) to this subject as you claimed many times that TPs are iconic to the series and to me, "iconic" is quite a strong word.

And here you go the extra mile and try to finish it with a bang. Only, you do it badly.

Yes, Town Portals are a Diablo icon. Did you play D1? Hope so. I know you played D2. Now tell everyone if you can think of the Diablo games and not see the iconic, almost unchanged between both games, town portal image? Can you think of Diablo and ignore altogether town portals? Can you think of Diablo and ignore the one means of transportation that everyone used for the past 10 years?

Now... for fun, lets do the same exercise for your precious "sense of isolation"... Right.

Contrary to you, I don't pretend. I don't invent. I don't say anything that isn't there for anyone to see. And I'm humble enough to admit when I'm wrong and change my opinion. As I changed here when I agreed that indeed TPs need to change.

Have a nice day, sir.

And now I am truly done. Thanks everyone for the debate.

 

[Ishtor]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Agree, but how far would that altering or nerfing go .. what if TPs ended up becoming completely unneeded and was replaced by other different mechanics that do the job better and fit D3.

I dont think they will never be useless but i know with changes not as useful.

Good you know things are different in D3.

LOL, thanks how boring work is and after i found this forum i have been glued to it, reading and learning more. I find my self always one the opisite side of the debates. which is fine with me, i got to say sir i respect you, and you have showed me stuff i did not know and have change my opinion before. I am strong headed and stuburn, and hard to admit when i am proven wrong and i think you have done this once or twice.

There is a function (a scroll for now) to be used only in town so that a player can catch up to his/her party who are out there fighting.

That's beside the WP system.

thats kool learned some thing new again:alright:

When given the choice most people will choose the most cheap way to do things ... that's why some things should be more under control or regulated according to the will of the game designer not the player .. besides .. you don't play the game by yourself .. there are others ... putting aside what Kiroptus mentioned about the sense of isolation and flow of action (which i agree with but will only influence SP) it does have effects on PvP as well .. there is no denying that.

other than the isolation thing, i can slightly agree with you. PVP wise i can see how it cause issues, at the same time i been on the recieveing in how it helped. When you get those time when you get those player that like to kill you when your naked and gaurd the town intrance an kill you as soon as you walked out, it was nice have that back door to get your body back and kill the noob for being so retarded.

People do always choose the easiest way, but thats there choice. to use it and complain about it is kinda of hypocrital. But in no means i dont think this one item ruined the game. when it was made i think it was the best simple option they had to fix alot of other issues, but with what we know today and the change over the decade, other system can be used effectivly to replace alot of the functions, but a town portal is a convience to use.

The cool down is one way to do it .. but i think it needs more than that .. make a little harder to purchase or something along those lines .. that if there is really a need for it to stay in the game.

i agree, easy access was an issue with things like that and pots, i dont think this stuff should of been sold by a vendor at all, or atleast the better versions. but thats just me. early game not a big issue but as the game progresses and you can i buy minor they would be come usless or more tactful to upgrade them with the cube.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Yes, Town Portals are a Diablo icon. Did you play D1? Hope so. I know you played D2. Now tell everyone if you can think of the Diablo games and not see the iconic, almost unchanged between both games, town portal image? Can you think of Diablo and ignore altogether town portals? Can you think of Diablo and ignore the one means of transportation that everyone used for the past 10 years?

I played D1 at launch date and D2 to even nowdays, I love them but I always thought that TPs always felt cheap.


And yeah I can picture a Diablo with a more restrictive tp, even Diablo 1 and 2. To have them only working on certain moments or making them only in shrines (which would be more common). Infact there is a mod for D2 called Hell unleashed which is like a superhard more for D2 with some extra monsters and TPs are indeed removed and TP shrines are more common because if we give the player the control to TP, as Jay wilson said, the players WILL be going to town to make every little mundane task.

And I am sorry I dont share your same love for TPs, I simply dont, I always saw TP as a need because of the game's flaws and not because of brilliant design. Never I saw TPs as a Diablo icon and if any of the creators actually said such statement I would understand but its only your opinion.

Contrary to you, I was there 8 years ago discussing Diablo 2 during development. I know perfectly well how and why Town Portals were made the way they were. You, obviously don't. You keep insist in ignoring my comments on this issue and come up with your fabricated story. But you sir have no idea of what you are talking about.

Everyone knows why TPs are in. Whats the big secret? Potionfest, repairs, restock, limited inventory grid, etc... certainly not good things. The problem is that because of the need to supply those flaws/outdated designs is that it did make the distance between a dungeon and the town's safety way too easy, its all I am trying to say and I dont believe you didnt get that.

It is valid to have an opinion. But it is not valid to turn your opinion into a fact and use that new "fact" as a weapon to convince others of your opinion. Read that again if it confuses you.

Well... I would rather think I am presenting it as an argument rather than an opinion. I never said its a "fact"... its just how TP's functions were harmful to Diablo's immersion, I cant whats wrong here and why I would be trying to shovel my opinions as facts into other people's throats... I was pointing out how harmful TPs are to this concept...

This game is over 8 years old, we have more ideas and functions available to us now then we did then. When D2 was created it was very well designed, blizzard make the best quality games, the deffantly believe quality of quanity, and they have the trek record to prove that. If this was a new game i would agree with you, but its not.

Geez I dont know what is wrong with you people... I said many times to nowdays standards its very bad. I loved D2 but nowdays I just cant play it anymore, its way too faulty and its flaws are NOT brilliance(like some people here who defended GA pierce bug and the cowlevel, and think that Enigma and Rushing are great!) and MUSTNOT be carried over to D3.

D2 was great at its time but nowdays its closing to mediocre-average, by far easily the most unpolished and unbalanced game on Blizzard's portfolio and I hope that 1.13 can spark some fixed on this because the game deserved better.

and now unto the phrase, "feeling of isolation." until the first person that posted that phrase, it was never even thought of as a defence. all though thing will be different in D3 for sure, there will never be a feeling of isolation. This is not Resident Evil or Silent Hill where you have no support untill you beat everything and get out. This is a party game, they want us to party and interact, other wise they would not put this online for us to play together. If you want this feeling play by your self and with the light off.

Isolation has nothing to do with anything that happens in Silent HIll or RE, we are talking about immersion, about immersion the player OR the whole party into the dungeon, to make everyone work towards a goal. This "feeling of isolation" that seems to be so imcompreensible for some people here is nothing more than a mean of immersion for the game. Its not about being isolated like being alone scared and nothing like that. Its about actually feeling you progressing through a dark dungeon and not like you are in some playground on a nearby town that you can go there as you please. If you are down in the ninth-layer of hell a simple buyable and cheap scroll shouldnt be able to take you back to civilization in a mere second!

Geez what the hell, am I being THAT cryptic here and it also seems that I am spilling the ultimate offense to everyone here?

People do always choose the easiest way, but thats there choice. to use it and complain about it is kinda of hypocrital.

Sorry it doesnt work like that when the game is multiplayer. When we are in a multiplayer enviroment its all diferent. Look at act3. Its a forgotten and easily skipped act. I am not cheap, I like to appreciate the game and all but I am not going to be only lone sucker that is going to create Khalim Will to break the orb. If I am on SP, its fine I will do that, but in Bnet, if I create a game for act3 first:

1-No one will want to make it.
2-They will call their high level friends to give trav wp, kill the council and get Durance 2 Wp.

In a mp enviroment, everyone will abuse those features and as D2 is a cooperative game, either you adapt to what the community is using or you will a be raving lunatic that should be playing alone.


For me diablo is about hack and slashing action that is good to play cooperatively and fairly which is why I think its quite sad that nowdays the game is pretty much 100% exploitable, nobody plays together, everyone just wants the WPs for their goals, nobody can be trusted because of PK. D2 is a skeleton of a MP game, you pretty much just need ppl to give you WPs, and a high level character (usually a hammerdin... props for allowing a character to solo 8ppl hell games with so much ease) to auto-boost you on your baal runs. For a cooperative game that its insanely poor which is sad because the game has so much potential, its just a shame that we had to wait for D3 for that.

I remember playing Gauntlet Legends for the N64 (the version with a LOT of monsters, unlike the others). I played with my bro and my sister (who hates videogames). But it was so much fun, the game is quite simplistic but having to work with your friends to hack and slash your way through hordes of monsters with non-stop action was very very fun, we stayed up playing that until 4 a.m. which was insane for my sister. Now when the hell did we ever had a feeling like that in Diablo 2? I am sorry but I never felt it, if this ever happened on Bnet I would be once in a blue moon, there is so much pauses, so much grief among players (drops and PK), so many "easy-way" outs that some guy in the party wants to abuse, etc....

Players actions do need rules and limits, D2 is way too anarchic for its own good. This idea of "you only abuse it if you want" is out of place in Bnet, most people will do that and if you try to play the game in a more non-exploitable manner no one will want to play with you as the exploitable manner is faster and more effective.

 

[Mad Mantis]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

we are talking about immersion, about immersion the player OR the whole party into the dungeon, to make everyone work towards a goal.

Bethesda really ruined the word immersion for me. I loath it at this point in time especially because it gets thrown around all the time.

Progressing through the Forgotten Tower towards the Countess a lot of us probably do get the feeling that we are fighting towards a goal, to finally slay the evil thing at the bottom. We know the quest and still feel that it is a coherent design. The fact that we can TP back in order to bug Cain about some loot ID and sell some of the stuff to Charsi doesn't matter. It detracts nothing from the experience of dungeon fighting.

Maybe for you it does. I have no idea what you find appealing in games and how your mind works. For a lot of us the biggest blow to the atmosphere doesn't come from the TP, but from the fact that we have run the countess close to a million times.

TP's could do with an overhaul. Disabling them during Boss fights should be pretty standard. At the very least they should reset the monsters when you do use one. Being able to only cast them when not fighting is not a bad idea either. But removing them entirely or crippling them into useless things is not the way forward in my opinion. A quick trip to town could be useful for a lot of reasons. Not all of them have to be in-game reasons. We still have RL to contend with.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Not all of them have to be in-game reasons. We still have RL to contend with.

All that is necessary is to run back a little from the monsters you have slain and you will be safe. Unless some prick in the party decides to lure monster into you but in D2 anyone can even PK you and as that doesnt work in D3, its not a concern.

Progressing through the Forgotten Tower towards the Countess a lot of us probably do get the feeling that we are fighting towards a goal, to finally slay the evil thing at the bottom. We know the quest and still feel that it is a coherent design. The fact that we can TP back in order to bug Cain about some loot ID and sell some of the stuff to Charsi doesn't matter. It detracts nothing from the experience of dungeon fighting.

Well I never got that feeling, in D2 it always seems that hell or any evil forgotten dungeon was nothing more than a nearby playground of a safe and confortable town. But anyway it doesnt matter, Blizzard will find the right balance to put players together toward a goal, its up to them.