Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

[Ishtor]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

It is just my opinion but there is nothing wrong with the TP Method Blizzard has used for both of there diablo games. At this point you might as well put CD on over powered moves where you force a player to rotate wich move they use. If there are exploits in the game TP's are defantly not the biggest issue. Like you said Duping and hacking is such a big issue, and i rather them focus on this than a ingame function that has alsway been there by the creator's choice.

a 5 to 10 minute CD in some way could be fair, but at the same time would the CD work from game to game?

Since they will have a method to summon a person to you, will this work at anytime. i apologize if i am wrong, but i have not come across anything like this and would like to know how this is going to work and implicated in the game. If you could provide a link that would be awsome.

I forgot about the check point thing that was added.

donuts was not a key point i was just making a comparison/analogy. I was just staing if you are one of the people that abuse the use of TP, what right to you have to complain about it if you use the convience it provides. Like i said there is nothing wrong with a tp, especially if they add a new system like you stated, they will not need to be used as much.

i aslo want to state Knight_Wolf, from what i read in the forums already i can tell you seem ot know what you are talking about anif i am wrong i do not mind being corrected.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

http://diablo3community.com/topic/86/indiablode-interview-with-jay-wilson-part-2/

The idea of town portals we wanted to reject, since from the viewpoint of being in the middle of a fight, it's very easy to abuse, simply disappearing. It just goes back to being the kind of thing we don't want. Players often go back to town more when they really need to. But if you give players the opportunity every two minutes to town portal, they'll take advantage of that and carry every last piece of loot, even worthless things, back to town effortlessly, which isn't very fun. That's why we wanted to move away from that. We also looked back on the original Diablo to get a feel for dungeons being difficult to escape from, but Diablo 2 never balanced this very well like we have now. We want the player not to be stuck in a dungeon forever, we want to provide intervals where they can go back. We don't want players to have to keep dropping items, but we also don't want them to be able to go back as often as they want like in Diablo 2. There are a lot of pros and cons and we're currently balancing it all. The removal of town portals is beginning to feel bad, because everyone was accustomed to it, but we're trying our best to find the right way to do this so that the game doesn't suffer for it.

One thing we're trying with our waypoints is adding a "town portal" like ability to it. Previously in a Diablo 2 game, if a friend wanted to catch up, he'd have to yell "TP! TP!" and wait until someone portals them to where they are. This isn't a very good way to get players together, because it requires the other players to drop what they're doing to summon a portal in a safe spot. That's why we're allowing waypoints to teleport you directly to other players. The player steps on the waypoint, clicks the function "Teleport to friend" (this won't be the final name of the function, it'll certainly change) and immediately a list of other players in the game appears and he can click to teleport to them. This takes the load off the existing players who are already out playing and might be in the middle of a fight, and it also allows everyone to catch up. I know this is a fairly long answer. For all these features, we're just trying to decide whether the advantages of them outweighs any disadvantages, and then try and implement them.

Btw what everyone seems to be forgetting is that NPCs in D2 could heal you to full mana and HP, so if TPs are back like they were, the whole point of nerfing potionfest would go down the drain. I am certain that TPs wont function as D2 at all.

 

[Ishtor]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

thanx for this link... alot more to soak in. I will read it all though. what ever they do, i know blizzard will do whats best for the game.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

My issue with that quote from Jay Wilson is that he's deciding for me what I consider is fun or not.

If Jay Wilson wants to radically alter TPs function or even remove them because they don't fit in the new game mechanics, fine -- I'll live with that even though I find TPs an iconic feature of the Diablo series. But reading stuff like "they'll take advantage of that and carry every last piece of loot, even worthless things, back to town effortlessly, which isn't very fun" (sic) really sends a shiver through my spine.

 

[Ishtor]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

My issue with that quote from Jay Wilson is that he's deciding for me what I consider is fun or not.

If Jay Wilson wants to radically alter TPs function or even remove them because they don't fit in the new game mechanics, fine -- I'll live with that even though I find TPs an iconic feature of the Diablo series. But reading stuff like "they'll take advantage of that and carry every last piece of loot, even worthless things, back to town effortlessly, which isn't very fun" (sic) really sends a shiver through my spine.

i read that too and was like um... no also

I have to remind myself it is not the same team that has made the first two games and i know stuff will be changed, as long as is still is Diablo, i am sure i will love it. beside what he said the addition to the orbs and the barbarian using fury and not mana also east at me. this is niether god of war or WOW, wish they can keep that separate. Before i go a huge rave over what they change and how it suck i want to atleast see some more game play videos or try it for myself.

 

[drae]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Imho, the "not fun" was referring to having to actually go through the motions of running to town; most likely due to limited bag space, rather then collecting loot.

I wouldn't worry on that front, hauling in lewt is apart of the Diablo experience :thumbup:

----------------------------------------------

Honestly, I believe Blizzard is trying to make individual games last longer then in D2; none of this 5m Baal run stuff. I see longer individual games, with more areas explored in a single instance. I think the method of D2, where the End-game is composed of like 10% of the total game won't be repeated. It's too much of a waste.

That being said, 10m would be an appropriate "cool-down" in my mind; whether reset from game to game or not, in my opinion; matters little as games will ideally (and at the beginning most likely will) last longer then 10 or 15m.

Of course the duration of the "cool-down" would be tweak-able.



Another Idea; spawn a portal to the closest town (or the town of that act, or whatever...) at the completion (end boss kill) of each dungeon. Giving you an opportunity to offload your lewts. Or after scripted events, or quest completion.

 

[drae]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

I have to remind myself it is not the same team that has made the first two games and i know stuff will be changed, as long as is still is Diablo, i am sure i will love it. beside what he said the addition to the orbs and the barbarian using fury and not mana also east at me. this is niether god of war or WOW, wish they can keep that separate. Before i go a huge rave over what they change and how it suck i want to atleast see some more game play videos or try it for myself.

Well said.

Gameplay is hugely important; and hard to convey in words or examples, to judge it before you try it is an injustice. Especially considering Blizzards track record, everything they produce has addictive gameplay if your a fan of the genre.

 

[Knight_Wolf]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

It is just my opinion but there is nothing wrong with the TP Method Blizzard has used for both of there diablo games. At this point you might as well put CD on over powered moves where you force a player to rotate wich move they use.

There are already cool downs for abusable and exploitable moves in D3 .. like the one on the Barb skill that stuns all enemies around ... this is a muct to prevent cheap exploitation.

If there are exploits in the game TP's are defantly not the biggest issue. Like you said Duping and hacking is such a big issue, and i rather them focus on this than a ingame function that has alsway been there by the creator's choice.

Sure it ain't the biggest issue, nobody said it was .. sure things like duping are more dangerous ... but in the end it is one of the things that need to be fixed to accommodate for the various changes in D3.

a 5 to 10 minute CD in some way could be fair, but at the same time would the CD work from game to game?

It's irrelevant from game to game ... what really matters is preventing abuse of TP within the specific current game.

Since they will have a method to summon a person to you, will this work at anytime. i apologize if i am wrong, but i have not come across anything like this and would like to know how this is going to work and implicated in the game. If you could provide a link that would be awsome.

Here is the text regarding the new function.
http://www.diablowiki.net/Checkpoint

In addition to waypoints and checkpoints, the D3 Team has talked about adding some mechanism (such as a town portal-like scroll) that would enable players to instantly travel from town to the location of the other players in the game. It's not clear why players in the game couldn't just cast a town portal, but it seems that those will be limited in Diablo III (as a strategic element, to prevent players from escaping back to town any time they want), so the instant location scroll is meant to save battling players any delay or pause in the action.

I forgot about the check point thing that was added.

No problem

donuts was not a key point i was just making a comparison/analogy. I was just staing if you are one of the people that abuse the use of TP, what right to you have to complain about it if you use the convience it provides. Like i said there is nothing wrong with a tp, especially if they add a new system like you stated, they will not need to be used as much.

Ahm, i do understand that donuts were meant for analogy, but the example wasn't really accurate at all IMO, donuts aside ... the whole point isn't just about abuse of TPs .... there is much more to it than that.

The system is basically an artifact from the previous games, the way it worked back then doesn't fit with the new game approach and newly added mechanics .. that's why it either needs to change and adapt or be removed.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

The system is basically an artifact from the previous games, the way it worked back then doesn't fit with the new game approach and newly added mechanics .. that's why it either needs to change and adapt or be removed.

Sorry Knight_Wolf. But you don't have any basis to sustain this claim. Neither Jay ever mentioned this specifically. From all we know TPs are to be removed or their function altered because they don't like how things were in the past (which, I repeat is fine. Definitely won't take my sleep). There's no mention of game mechanics an how TPs don't fit in this supposedly new model.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

I have to agree with Knight_Wolf with the sense that TPs really dont fit this new model because of the changes made to the game. By removing potions as the main healing method and the requirement of touching the orbs to replenish your health, which means a more strategic positioning and thus more danger in certain situations with a lot of monsters, the game now focus on this: creating a situation where you actually feel in danger, not because of 1 hit kill monsters but because you are in low health, stuck in the depths of a dungeon.

TPs removed this sense of fear and of being in danger as you can always go back to town. Also TPs represent a halt in the action and D3 wants to have action flowing, hence why there is no more inventory tetris, the inventory will certainly hold far more items than in D2 so there wont be too much need to go back to town because of loot issues, there is also no need to worry about having to carry lots of potions around because orbs will spawn and not even existing players in the current game need to stop by to create a portal, players can get into their location right away. From the direction that we can see, the action needs to flow and there needs to have a sense of danger. TPs cant return as freely as they were in D2 at all.

 

[Knight_Wolf]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Sorry Knight_Wolf. But you don't have any basis to sustain this claim. Neither Jay ever mentioned this specifically. From all we know TPs are to be removed or their function altered because they don't like how things were in the past (which, I repeat is fine. Definitely won't take my sleep). There's no mention of game mechanics an how TPs don't fit in this supposedly new model.

Ok, let me explain, here are some reasons.

1-Corpse runs:
One of the reasons that TPs were used is retrieving corpses, the player activated a TP whenever he/she felt there is a tough fight ahead or during a boss battle and then could fight as carelessly as ever knowing that if he/she get killed a TP will be open in town to take them back to their corpse so that they collect their precious items and open a new TP and continue the fighting.

Now all that happens when you die is respawn at the last check point you activated .. One of the reasons why TPs were needed is gone for good.


2-Emptying overloaded inventory
In D2 inventory usually get crowded very easily with charms and large items taking several slots, so the need to empty it was quite high.

Now with charms being almost gone, the whole inventory redesigned to accommodate for more large items and many small items players won't need to return to town as often as before, way-points will be more than enough to cover for need for journeys back to town.


Sense of danger:
Jay Wilson said it explicitly, when he was talking about more "fun" he meant a sense of challenge and danger .. the feeling of being isolated and really fighting hell minions on your own ... TPs were an easy ticket to safety that could be used at a whim .. any time and place even during a boss fight (which is pretty stupid really) .. and they were really easy to get ... quite plentiful and you can carry as much as you want ... that completely ruined the feeling the develope3rs in D3 are aiming for in their game.

Not to mention that the D3 dev team want to insure their game flows naturally without too many interruptions (even if that's against what some players want).

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Now we are moving somewhere. Thanks.

I'll address the points one by one...

1-Corpse runs:
One of the reasons that TPs were used is retrieving corpses, the player activated a TP whenever he/she felt there is a tough fight ahead or during a boss battle and then could fight as carelessly as ever knowing that if he/she get killed a TP will be open in town to take them back to their corpse so that they collect their precious items and open a new TP and continue the fighting.

I do have some trouble identifying this as an issue because, while I often used TPs as you describe, I did for quick corpse retrieval and to get back in the action instead of having to walk all the way back to the Boss. I certainly never fought carelessly because I had a TP nearby. TPs or no TPs I just don't like to die. Even more so concerning any increased penalties as it seems will be the case with D3.

But in any case I'll concede here.

My solution: TPs can't be used in Boss chambers.

2-Emptying overloaded inventory
In D2 inventory usually get crowded very easily with charms and large items taking several slots, so the need to empty it was quite high.

Now with charms being almost gone, the whole inventory redesigned to accommodate for more large items and many small items players won't need to return to town as often as before, way-points will be more than enough to cover for need for journeys back to town.

I know you know this is a weak argument
Should I explore it, or you care to reconsider it?
Planning to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Sense of danger:
Jay Wilson said it explicitly, when he was talking about more "fun" he meant a sense of challenge and danger .. the feeling of being isolated and really fighting hell minions on your own ... TPs were an easy ticket to safety that could be used at a whim .. any time and place even during a boss fight (which is pretty stupid really) .. and they were really easy to get ... quite plentiful and you can carry as much as you want ... that completely ruined the feeling the develope3rs in D3 are aiming for in their game.

I don't agree with this interpretation of Jay's words. He used the word 'fun' when talking about carrying items, not when discussing fighting monsters. And in that context I reiterate; I'm not very keen on having someone telling me what I should consider fun or not.

But addressing your issue specifically, there's no easier method to get into safety than running away from battle. You can argue "running away" is an acceptable method. But I'll tell you that is no different (and much easier) than to TP away. I said this before, I died more times trying to open a TP to get away from a tough battle that was going against me than I did when I tried to run away.

Similar, even more damaging methods to the issue at hand involve teleport or the barbarian jump skills.

In any case I agree I'm arguing on a tangent here. What I'm trying to establish is that the real problem here is not TPs presenting an easy escape, but a TP in D2 representing more than just getting away, it means full-health. Now that is a problem indeed.

So again I concede.

My proposed solution: Cooldown and the end of town healing. One can escape once but the cooldown will make sure next time is for real.

A final note... players should be offered with means of escaping battles. No game can put a player in a situation that means they will have to fight and they will have to die. The feeling of danger is always there when one faces a tough foe, regardless if they have an open door somewhere. I can easily escape Diablo without a town portal. And yet that is still one of the most feared monsters in the game.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

A final note... players should be offered with means of escaping battles. No game can put a player in a situation that means they will have to fight and they will have to die. The feeling of danger is always there when one faces a tough foe, regardless if they have an open door somewhere. I can easily escape Diablo without a town portal. And yet that is still one of the most feared monsters in the game.

I agree, its easy to run away from a monster and get to safety without a TP. 1 more reason to not include TPs in the game as its one of the reasons people keep speaking about Real life problems that might happen while fighting a boss. Only run some steps backwards and you might be able to get away from it.


The thing is, too much freedom to use TPs is something conceptually problematic for a dungeon crawler, its quite astonishing that it took so much time for the developers to realise that, we needed to get to D3 to have a developer that could see it. You are supposed to be going deep and deep into a dark and dangerous dungeon but with Tps, in reality you are just one step from the safety and convenience of a town. I was very happy when I first heard about the changes to TP.

And honestly we need someone to dictate rules to help the game flow, if once again we fall into D2's anarchy where anyone can play as they please or how they deem it to be "fun" everyone will play the game in the most effectivelly cheap way possible. Again, I hope D3 is more like a dictatorship of rules, but helping the game flow into a fun and action packed ARPG, rather than the anarchy mess that was D2.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Well, but this is where I disagree entirely Kiroptus.

Some initial notes:
Technically speaking Diablo is not a dungeon crawler. It could be said of Diablo 1, even though we would risk a debate. But not definitely 2, and from all we know not 3 either.
Keep also in mind later quotes have revealed the removal of TPs or a radical change to their use are just not as taken for granted as before.

On to the discussion:
Where I really cannot agree entirely is with the notion TPs should be removed altogether from the game. TPs have been an iconic feature of the Diablo series. But if this argument lacks substance, it doesn't the fact TPs serve a specific purpose of accelerating the gameplay.

There was nothing particularly dumb about previous development teams and TPs, as you seem to insinuate. The new team isn't brighter or has a clearer picture about TPs. They were there because TPs were a central aspect to MUDs. So, there is something that can't quite strikes as true on what you say if you consider TPs are actually a central aspect to many games from which Diablo got much of the inspiration and gameplay.

On the subject of pace, TPs bring all aspects of gameplay closer together by accelerating the access to towns and back into the action. It's in this context they should be viewed and any problems with previous implementations dealt with. Many ideas on how to change their use have been presented already. Some I agree, others I don't. But otherwise, there is no factual or convincing argument you can come up with that will convince me TPs need to be removed.

 

[Knight_Wolf]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

And honestly we need someone to dictate rules to help the game flow, if once again we fall into D2's anarchy where anyone can play as they please or how they deem it to be "fun" everyone will play the game in the most effectivelly cheap way possible. Again, I hope D3 is more like a dictatorship of rules, but helping the game flow into a fun and action packed ARPG, rather than the anarchy mess that was D2.

You speak my mind, well said. :thumbup:

My solution: TPs can't be used in Boss chambers.

Fair enough ... but another point other than the bosses is that there is less need to use TPs altogether due to removal of corpse runs as a penalty mechanic.

I know you know this is a weak argument
Should I explore it, or you care to reconsider it?
Planning to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Haha, yeah ... I'm actually 50/50 on this one, the game forcing the player to make meaningful choices with what items to carry with him into the wilderness and what to leave behind to have enough space in the inventory for hunting loot feels interesting to me as well as carefully planning my journeys back based on the locations of way-points which feels like real adventuring .. but i do understand not all people feel the same.

I don't agree with this interpretation of Jay's words. He used the word 'fun' when talking about carrying items, not when discussing fighting monsters. And in that context I reiterate; I'm not very keen on having someone telling me what I should consider fun or not.

He and Bashiok did mention the "flow of action", "sense of isolation" several times on different occasions (not necessarily when speaking about TPs) but it makes things clear what are the goals they are aiming for .. and indirectly one can understand that TPs (as they were in D2) clearly go against those goals .. that's all there is to that "fun" part as i understood it.

And i think the developer has the right to define what's "fun" in their game, Blizz teams always make games they enjoy playing first .. i can't imagine how bad a game would be when the Dev team making on it doesn't even enjoy playing the game :coffee:

A final note... players should be offered with means of escaping battles.

You said it .. just running way from monsters is enough to escape mortal danger, but still you can resume fighting right away and isn't 100% safe or back in town.

 

[Ishtor]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

thanks Knight_Wolf for the link i asked for.

The way i see it in Diablo II they did make it way to easy to get potions and town portals scrolls. I honestly think both of these issues could of been fixed by either making harder to retireve these items or make them more expensive.

The game will be differrent, and the use of TPs might not be as needed, but i would still like the freedom to head back to town when needed. As far as Town portals, what in my opinion broke them if anything was the Tome of Town portals, where you could hold 20 scrolls and only take up 2 spaces.

I know the game will be greta and i know they are making the game to be better than the other, but things like body running, town portal and potions to me are something that always should be part of the series. Even though body running could be annoying, especially when you body has a sworm of demons ontop of it, that was factor of the game and what sometime made it fun when you tried to get your body back.

Not saying things like Town portals and potions should not be nerf'd, i am saying that they should not be removed completely.

 

[Kiroptus]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Dungeon Crawler, ARPG, whatever, the thing is that TPs completely removed any sense of isolation, we never had that in Diablo2 so maybe its time to test a new aspect in the game in D3.

It can be said that TPs help to accelarate the game but I beg to differ. TPs are extremely necessary in D2 but mostly due to its own game problems. Like having to carry charms which further limits your inventory, then there is inventory tetris which makes storing bigger items a chore so you need to return often to sell/store stuff and then there is potionfest which means you need to go back to town to restore your supply once and a while (doesnt happen often in monster runs as potion drops a lot but happens quite often in boss fights, which is lame). And everytime one of those aspects happen, its a halt in the action which is not what they are aiming for.


Its possible that TPs might make a return but they will be quite restrictive on their use, I can take for granted that TPs, in their actual state in D2, wont return, thats a given.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

Somehow I cannot partake of this idea TPs are such an horrible feature even in D2. Such things tend to kill a game and not make it still one of the most successful games in computer history, being played and making the top sell lists 8 years after first launched.

I think it's justifiable the need to address some of the problems exposed in D2 and the need to review their usage. But I also think that throughout this discussion the use of superlatives are detracting the reality of the actual game experience -- and that is, TPs are not that evil and their usage is often, I'm pretty sure, done in the correct context they were created for.

If there is a need to review their usage -- and there is that need indeed -- one should really avoid going overboard with it. I'm saying this because I think we really should try to be more careful about some of the "accusations" (loosely speaking) we make and try to be more intellectually honest by actually reviewing our own preconceptions before exposing them. I speak of such things as "TPs completely removed any sense of isolation", or "its quite astonishing that it took so much time for the developers to realise that, we needed to get to D3 to have a developer that could see it", Kiroptus.

There's no such thing as the intention of creating a sense of isolation in a game like D2, and if you want that feeling you can control it yourself by creating your own rules for TPs usage. On the other hand, playing the role of an armchair designer doesn't give us the right to question the competence and quality of the work of those that create the games we -- irony of the ironies -- love so much and discuss still today.

 

[drae]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

TP's wreck the feeling of isolation. Emotions are subconscious. If in the back of your mind you know you can escape; the emotion is not nearly as strong.

People abuse TP's without even realizing it, sure they work in the way they were intended, but it kills all sense of immersion, isolation, and danger. It is not a good mechanic in a game that try's to stress all of those emotions in the theme and setting.

It's not that you shouldn't be able to go to town when you need, but there should be restrictions on use.

Also removing town heal AND potions is likely pretty difficult, as it would leave you NO way to heal yourself before heading out into the wilderness. Basically imagine you have 15% health left after a boss encounter; return to town and sell your stuff. But you want to keep going, and now you have to go kill monsters to fill yourself back up? Not gonna happen. There will be some method of town healing.

Corpse Hopping was not apart of D1 unless you were pk'd. Otherwise your gear went flying up in the air and people could steal it. I would not say that's been apart of the franchise, it was simply a mechanic that was implemented because whiners lost their gears to AMG SOUL*****ES in D1.

Ah i miss the danger of D1; you never knew who was going to betray you, MK you and steals all your gear. Sure it sucked, but consequences and the "always watch your back" coupled with the dark intensity of the game made it enjoyable imho.

I really enjoyed D1 Ironman games, seeing how far you could progress into the dungeon without EVER returning to town. (dont carry any tps, dont pick em up) Either solo or as a team. It intensified all the emotions the game used generate... danger, fear, isolationism, immersion, and the "david vs Goliath" feeling. I can tell from experience that the inherent danger increased the emotional response. Further, REMOVING or restraining the use of, TPs; would IMHO accomplish much the same effect. The argument that we have a choice to just "not use them" is invalid, as it would put us at a fundamental disadvantage vs. other players in terms of treasure collection, clearing speed,etc. Remeber it's a multiplayer game, so "choosing" to handicap yourself is not really an effective argument imho.

Atmosphere is an important element to gameplay.

 

[JITBxvx]

Re: Town Portal abuse - it's time to end it.

The one thing I don't see about this thread, and pardon me if it's been covered and I missed...is one of the other reasons for "TP Abuse" and the removal of a "sense of isolation" is the fact that some characters under the current model are inherently superior at surviving on their own.

Case in point, how many times does a low level sorc (if not "abusing" the TP mechanic) have to stand around waiting to refill mana prior to continuing? She's not trying to gank the system, but rather trying to get back to the "adventure" as quickly as possible. Being able to refill items for certain classes like the amazon (arrows,bolts, javelins), sorcs(mana pots), or even repairs on good mod weapons that are low durability for the fighter classes?

{Before you fire, I understand potions are being dealt with as a separate issue, but since they fit the scenario, I thought they warranted inclusion.}

Is it unrealistic to expect a warrior class to have to switch to a secondary weapon if their major weapon becomes damaged and they are not allowed to "Jump" back to town to effect repairs anymore because of a "sense of isolation" or a sorceress to have to stop every time they run out of mana? That's one of the many reasons people in movies are never caught re-loading...it takes away from the action...so the quicker the re-load(refill, repair, whatever) the faster the action can resume.

I think if these actions can still be accomplished with the removal of TP's, then fine, but I think the TP are a necessary evil that could survive just fine if some of the other ideas presented here are implemented without the removal of the "TP mechanic".

Just my 2gp.