Tournament idea (actually a reenactment)

epaminondas

Diabloii.Net Member
Hi again,

I was browsing through the old tournaments and the skill-less one seemed to me to be underexploited (probably among others). How would the SPF forum react to such a tournament? The basic idea is to not use any skill points. Use only skills given by items. Any merc allowed. I would also see the following modifications to the Docturnal's initial set-up:
- no rerunning
- RWM allowed

The first two editions:
Skill-less tourney, 1st ed.
Skill-less tourney, 2nd ed.

Any thoughts?
 

epaminondas

Diabloii.Net Member
The only restriction is to not place skill points anywhere. Anything else skill-wise is allowed. What do you think?
 

SunsetVista

Diabloii.Net Member
At first this didn't seem all that interesting to me. I recently played in a skill restricted tourney. Skills are fun! It seems like this will be a lot of slow regular attacks and mercs getting kills.

However, then I started thinking about staffmods and which 1 point wonders from gear could make this doable (and interesting) through normal. There are possibilities. I also like that the gear used will often be different from the usual, and every class has an opportunity to be a melee build.

I don't know about NM or Hell though. Blah, now I am planning things. I can't guarantee that I'd play, but it'd be neat to see what people come up with.
 

epaminondas

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, it is true that the previous editions allowed re-running, so their gear was considerably better, but as I see it, it's an opportunity to beat the game using only gear, stat-points and merc. It is true that is difficult, only people who truly know the game will reach Hell, and probably they will have to use everything they know about gear. The rest of us have an opportunity to learn more about that as that's the resource we have to stretch to progress. Also it could be nice to explore merc related tactics as the merc is mostly used to relief pressure and not really as a tactical element. As I've seen in the first edition of this tournament jiansonz reached at least Act V Hell and it seems he has done it single-pass. I would also encourage single-pass, as running bosses eventually gets boring for anyone and it will always have that incentive to try a little more running to slightly increase the chance that you'll make better gear. This would result in little progress and loss of interest.

Also, the tournament must be without a time limit as people don't seem to play as often anymore. It also needs to be HC, but people could use SC, exit the tournament at the first death and then use the skill points for whatever build. So this would be to see how far can they get without the skills.
 

pharphis

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
hmmm... using staffmods, I think a necro would be the easiest since you could get up to 6 skills you want from wep and shield. Amp, decrep, life tap, lower res, poison nova (poison source), and revive could all be very useful... more curses if using a wep switch
 

epaminondas

Diabloii.Net Member
Jiansonz used an assassin which has the toughest time getting the staffmods and he reached the furthest. I think every class has a chance with a good amount of luck & skill (probably the Amazon is a bit underpowered for this, but even she can get far with knockback/slow) . For me, I would let random choose the class and plan accordingly.
 

SunsetVista

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm no jiansonz, that's for sure.

I was thinking necro, too. meleemancer with amp damage somewhere, clay golem + iron maiden on heads for normal bosses. Merc + CE could get through NM without too much trouble.
 

Dazliare

Diabloii.Net Member
If you decide to host this, count me in. I probably spent an hour thinking of ideas. First thought was necro, which is exactly why I wouldn't run it. Thinking a paladin might be a good choice. A +skills helm with a good palading shield, plus a scepter with holy freeze and zeal, and a wand with life tap on swap I think just might work. Or perhaps the mythical HS scepter.

Was also thinking some kind of singer with a +bo helm, but that could get painfully slow.

I wouldn't want to run an amazon or assassin in this. I also think a druid would struggle badly, but I might be persuaded there. I think I would say absolutely not to a sorc run through.

Other thoughts?
 

Dazliare

Diabloii.Net Member
I've never actually tried one, but isn't that the point of the tourney? That just about anything would be awful? You could certainly get some cheese factor going with a necro and curses like IM/Golem for bosses, but I think any other class will be painfully bad. To me, the point of the tournament is just to see how far I could get. I have no expectations of actually being successful :p
 

epaminondas

Diabloii.Net Member
A good number of necro useful skills are available in charges on wands so that is for all classes to use. The barbarian has some very nice skills : Find Item, Taunt, Howl. Some may even find an use for Grim Ward. He can boost his helm skills like no other character with dual wield. I'm not very sure the cries would be that useful as monster level raises and he would probably need to keep quite a few helms around for options, but I wouldn't mind a barb. The druid though, I think is indeed difficult. I see no way for him to be anything else than a support for his merc with not much to do in a fight.

I would tell you to read the previous editions of this but that would be a spoiler :). Anyhow, it is different as reruns are not allowed.

I think you all have valid ideas for the builds (as valid as a 'build' may sound in this craziness), maybe you would like to try them. I would leave the thread open for suggestions for another week or so, and then start a progression thread.
 

Zenigma

Diabloii.Net Member
That lucky attempt where as a barbarian you get to make a grief and you find a bloodletter... hahahahahaha. As if.
 

jiansonz

Diabloii.Net Member
I must confess something that I am not proud of at all.
I cheated in the last part of the first tourney - in a situation I deemed hopeless, I saved and exited in one of the Hell Act III temples. So everything beyond that part is not valid. That's why I stopped updating, something you pretty much never see me do otherwise. My thoughts of guilt eventually caught up with me and I deleted the character.

Ahem.

Up until that temple, everything was done according to the rules. So I made it to mid-Act III Hell.
IIRC, I had Cloak of Shadows and maybe Death Sentry and/or BoS on claws on my weapon switch, and I used Langer Briser as main weapon. The CoS combined with the knockback on my crossbow kept our distance to the enemies. I also found out that an item with +All Skills allowed my Death Sentries to not disappear when I switched away from that claw, something they did otherwise.

I have made Guardian with a Sorceress that only put skill points in Warmth and in the three Masteries. So not quite skill-less but every skill she wanted to cast had to come from gear.


If this tournament takes off, Selena the Assassin will make another attempt, but this time with a Cold rogue as companion.
(that is, if I get to choose the class - I will also play with a randomly selected class).

@Dazliare: I think a Sorc is doable. I would aim for the gear my Mastery Sorc used: GSpike and Teleport on main orb and Static on the switch orb, plus Shiver Armor on one of them. That's what I used to support my merc for 95% of the game. Only rarely would I use some other stuff to battle PI monsters. Stuff like a +3 FW Leaf staff (decent damage with maxed mastery) and a wand with the Shocking attribute (made for 1~1800 lightning damage on melee hits - my merc was Blessed Aim so I could actually hit stuff with it).
 

epaminondas

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, the most important thing is for people to have fun with this as it's a difficult tournament, so I think choosing the class should be left to the players. I'm equally likely to screw up with any character so I can go random, but I think each should have his own choice. Of course, extra credit goes to those who can deal with whatever life sends their way :).
 

Dazliare

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks for the tips Jian! Definitely count me in. I'll say screw it and try whatever class nobody else runs :p
 

epaminondas

Diabloii.Net Member
I would also like to have your input about the so-called "cheese tactics" (opening chests on higher player settings than you used to kill the monsters guarding it). I'm inclined to support it as people will struggle with high equipment requirements and low killing speed, but wouldn't mind either way.
 

Dazliare

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm good with it. I think this tournament is challenging enough that a little cheese really isn't going to be the difference between a guardian or not.
 

Dazliare

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't think that's really any different than farming an area. If you clear 40 enemies and find crappy enemies, then either keep going, or respawn the area and don't clear it. Not that anyone would really do it, but it's a bit cheesy to kill a few enemies, then reset the area because you "don't like the enemies"
 
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