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To use ES or not to use ES

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Mule, Feb 13, 2004.

  1. Mule

    Mule IncGamers Member

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    To use ES or not to use ES

    I'm in the process of making a PvP lightning sorc non-ladder. So far the plan is to Max lightning (well doh), chanin lightning (synergy and anti-group) and of course lightning mastery.
    I can't really decide on whether to use energy shield or not. If I choose ES I surely want Telekinesis (TK) to back it up, at least 16 points, only one point in ES itself as I'll have a lot of +lightning skills, so what do you recommend of the following:
    1) To hell with ES, going pure synergy for damage.
    2) ES with 16 points TK for even mana/life damage taken.
    3) ES with 20 points TK for ultimate life replacement in the form of mana.
    4) Something entirely different, please state what as I'm terrible at guesswork :)

    A few gear suggestions too, but I'd imagine those are highly dependent on the above selection. For instance, going high on TK (hence using ES at all) would mean a requirement for more mana, Wiz really fits that bill, going pure synergy might warrent more for one of the unique orbs with additional goodies on them. Recommendations are welcome here.
     
  2. Soepgroente

    Soepgroente IncGamers Member

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    You lose a third of your damage by maxing telekinesis (from 32 000 to 24 000 with lvl 40 skills). Even more if you invest in ES at all. That's not worth it in my opinion. You'll end up dying quicker against most melee probably. Plus you have that thing where charge/zerk misses but you do lose ALL your mana with ES.

    I say no. Matter of taste though. Look for a +3 ES 4 socketed staff for pre-casting ES if you do want it (memory = +3 sorc/es for a total of +9 ES) :)
     
  3. Mule

    Mule IncGamers Member

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    Never knew about such a bug. I do find ES pretty useless without TK as synergy, so we're talking about 17-21 points spent elsewhere besides synergies. The +ES staff/wand wouldn't be great without the TK backup, but it could save one point otherwise going into ES :)
     
  4. SHouston

    SHouston IncGamers Member

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    Energy Shield works well enough for Physical Dmg but it has a bug where Elemental Dmg is taken into effect BEFORE your resistances are calculated. In Hell, even a low lvl elemental attack will drain your Mana Ball with one hit. Until this bug is fixed i wouldn't use ES at all.
     
  5. Usufruct

    Usufruct IncGamers Member

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    I don't use Energy Shield at all anymore.
     
  6. Soepgroente

    Soepgroente IncGamers Member

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    I don't know how high telekinesis charges can get, but if they go to a decent level you can try it without spending points (they count as synergy, perhaps your opinion is that it's a bug, i still think it's a feature personally :p). You do need enigma for teleport though, and you have to pre-cast ES since it won't work if you place actual points in telekinesis.
     
  7. Mule

    Mule IncGamers Member

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    I had to make a snap decision yesterday, well not quite snap, but made one anyway as it doesn't take too long to level to ~80. I'm going for ES+TK, even put a point in TS for that evusive life chipping ability. Wish me luck and let's see how it works out :)
     
  8. Soepgroente

    Soepgroente IncGamers Member

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    Oh yea one point of thunderstorm is definitely nice, forgot that. Especially if you get 10 lightning charms, but even without them it's pretty cool.
     
  9. Jell-O

    Jell-O IncGamers Member

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    I don't know by heart how many synergies you need to max, but when using a skill like frozen orb where there is only 1-2 synergies I'd definately go es and tk.
    I'd even recommend no vitality and all energy and get a very high lvl energy shield but that also requires at least 16 in tk so it's up to you.

    Either way I'd get energy shield with any build.
     
  10. Mule

    Mule IncGamers Member

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    Base vit? That sounds rather scary. How much life would be considered "enough" for a sorc going for PvP?
    My expected lightning skillers doesn't contain a drop of life, so from inventory only 200 would be gained tops from charms, besides that there's the usual shako, waterwalks and socketing jobs.
     
  11. Jell-O

    Jell-O IncGamers Member

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    I can only speak from my own experience and sorc, but I have lvl 32 energy shield and max tk with around 650 life(base vit) and 2000+ mana and it works great.
    The more mana the better, but I think you could get by with around 1600 and up depending on how much you avoid attacks :)

    Those 650 points of life are enough for me as long as I have some mana to have reduced when taking damage, but there is of course the chance of having all your mana drained and unless you can regen that quickly you can die very quickly.

    In short, when your energy shield is around 90% your mana turns into life, when you're out of mana you're basically a sitting duck or already killed :)
     
  12. Soepgroente

    Soepgroente IncGamers Member

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    I shall list some nice pre-casting gear for mule. That way you can achieve lvl 40 (maximum useful es) without maxing it. That yields 95% absorb, after that only the duration increases. Pretty useless since it's already 40 minutes there.

    "Memory" in a +3 energy shield staff (3+3 energy shield and 3 sorc skills means +9 for weapon/shield)
    +3 energy shield ormus robe's
    11 from charms (10 skillers and anihilus)
    3 lightning skill amulet/circlet (+6)
    1 belt/rings (arachnid & sojs or bulkathos's)

    That gives you +32 to energy shield, meaning you need 8 points if you have all that. That's if you plan on maximizing your absorb techniques. I'd do that, since for example an increase from 90 to 95% means halfing any damage done to you while only draining a little more mana. Your build would look like this:

    ~8 energy shield (depending on what you can get from the above list a little more)
    20 telekinesis
    1 warmth
    1 thunderstorm
    20 lightning mastery
    20 lightning
    20 chain lightning

    It's a pretty ok idea now that i think about it :)
     
  13. Mule

    Mule IncGamers Member

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    Currently I have a minor screw up with skill placement, so CL won't get maxed unless I go to clvl 87, but that aside, base vit sounds interesting, pre-buffing ES can be done in time, I don't have the memory staff yet but I guess it shouldn't be too hard to find. Great advice all around :)

    I guess this would suit an Orb sorc better with lower synergy requirement, only problem would be getting room in the stash for those replacement charms.
     
  14. nebby

    nebby IncGamers Member

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    Just curious- do you play PvM or PvP? Softcore or HC? I ask only because I only play HC (rarely pvp, just pkk in some cases), and due to the elemental bug in hell, I've been thinking about not doing ES anymore either. Last two sorc deaths were due to ranged attackers in hell that were FE + something (fanat/ES or EF/might). Since the resists don't calc into it, my mana is insta-drained, and the second and third hits toasted me (boss packs rain arrows). Mash those full rejuv keys as you might, sometimes it doesn't save your butt anyway.
     
  15. Los Sin Nombre

    Los Sin Nombre IncGamers Member

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    I have a feeling I will not like this sorc...
     
  16. Soepgroente

    Soepgroente IncGamers Member

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    She's great for pubbies. Might wanna re-consider for friendly dueling. A sorceress is usually already overpowered, so if she's 10 times as tough to kill (assuming half as much life because of the no-vitality thing) it might be overpowered².
     
  17. Mule

    Mule IncGamers Member

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    On the other hand, her damage won't be impressive, I've calculated it to about 16k max, so with lightnings ~1-16k = 8 avg. / 6 (pvp) / 4 (resist) ~= 333, substract from that some absorb and I think it's pretty fair.
     
  18. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    This is the reality of ES, right now. Elemental attacks will decimate you. But remember you get 1 point from 1 point of Vitality. But you get 4 mana for every 1 pt of energy. That's a big bonus. So you can be more like a Barb if you can use your Mana as your life.

    Second what are you using your energy for? Usually attacking. Does your attack reduce your mana heavily? If the answer is yes, you maybe building yourself a sacrificing paladin. Where you are trading your life for damage. But if your build barely uses mana to attack and then with a significantly large mana pool you'll be regenerating it quickly.

    Third, remember mana regeneration. How it works. The larger the mana pool the more you get back/second. So grab %mana regeneration and %mana increase items. Frostburns, SOJs, Silkweaves are so important to this build. Far more important than Damage goes to Mana. This mod will be really useless as its only going to be damage that gets through your shield that goes back to you. And you don't want damage through your sheild.

    Fourth, what's the other thing you are using mana for? Attacking? Life? The last thing is teleport. Teleport gets you out of trouble, but at high levels it doesn't cost you much to use at all. At level 20 it costs you only 5 points to cast. So if you are using lightning attacks and have lots of plus lightning gear you have significantly reduced your casting cost of teleport. You'll regenerate this much per frame if you have the right gear on. Thus ES makes more sense for Lightning builds. This is the real reason that people aren't using ES. They want to have mana to teleport. But for Lightning builds this is far less a problem than for Fire or Cold Builds. You almost might say for a lightning build well tweaked. You'd be a fool not to use ES. And to not use ES at as high level as possible. So that Memory Staff is a great idea.
     
  19. Jell-O

    Jell-O IncGamers Member

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    You get 2 life/vitality just like you get 2 mana/energy, the thing that makes high ES build more profitable with energy than vitality is that it's much easier to get +mana% items than +life%.

    ES does of course make more sense with lightningbuilds as they have almost all lightningskills already, but it's perfect for the orber aswell mostly because it only has 1 synergy and you don't even have to max it's mastery which gives you many spare skills.
     
  20. Mule

    Mule IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the input, I'm now convinced this is going in the right direction, near base life and huge mana pool. Only issue is frosties will be hard to use as I want 120% FCR for lightning attacks, but everything else should be in place :)
     

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