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To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Vespar, May 20, 2008.

  1. Vespar

    Vespar IncGamers Member

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    To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    So, based on experience is it believed that it is more lucrative in the long run to not complete the hell meph quest and to continue farming without quest completetion or is it better (money/item wise) to progress and farm other things beyond meph, such as shenk, pindle, nith, and even baal?

    And to continue on further....if one were to want to farm just Andy, the countess, and meph....what would be the most effective build choice? I was think meteorb...but then the countess is both fire and ice immune.
     
  2. carnivore

    carnivore IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    meph can be done fast and easy with the moat trick. so he is a good choice to run. if you can garantuee to quest drop him every time (by not fulfilling the quest and opening the game with a character that has already done it), even better.

    you should run more than one target per game, because its less boring and - even more important - you will avoid being temp banned for opening too many games in too fast succession. pindle, shenk are good targets to add, because they are easy to reach.

    nith is fast to run too, but can be annoying to kill (at least without dieing every now and then). he drops keys though, which is a good reason to include him on your run.

    keys are a good reason to also include countess and the summoner. so even if you wont have any luck with your mf drops, you will get some more or less constant reward during your runs. if the countess is both fire and cold immune, let your merc take care of her and assist with static. this should work well.

    include a level 85 area in your runs too (pits in act 1 or ancient tunnels in act 2 for example). all sets and uniques can drop there, so its always worth visiting.

    baal isnt normally a good choice. the way to him is troublesome, his minions are annoying and it just take too long. if you can killout the world stone keep (level 85 area) fast and save, you could do it, because this makes it much more worth the effort and time.

    andy should be easy and quick. i normally dodge her poison with teleport and just orb her to death. your merc might not like her though.

    to summerize:
    the most important thing in mf is that you kill lots of monsters and fast. where you do it is by far less important. so you can choose your build first and then run the target you feel the most comfortable with.

    a second factor would be, what you want to achieve:
    - if you like to get many colorful drops and trade the best out of them, go for bosses.
    - if you want a chance to get the "nearly impossible to drop" high end uniques, run lvl 85 areas.
    - if you want to "work" your way to wealth, run keys and trade them.
    - if you cant decide, do a little of all.

    a solid allround mf build propably be a meteorb sorc with (partial) tals set. a more expansive alternative would be a pure lightning sorc with infnity merc.
     
  3. Vespar

    Vespar IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    :shocked:


    Wow, I have to say that is probably one of the most insightful and well thought out replies that I have ever received to any question I have asked on these boards so far.

    Thank you very much. You pointed out quite a few things that I have been missing in my runs, such as the summoner, the pit, and even the ancient tunnels (Which I do not recall the location of). I even forgot that I can static the countess since it is lightning damage.

    Kudos on a great post. Thank you very much.
     
  4. Scudstorm

    Scudstorm IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    Full Tal's Set is better for dual tree IMO.

    The Ancient Tunnels are in Lost City. No cold immunes in there :)
     
  5. Vespar

    Vespar IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    Ah, thanks for the refresher scudstorm.


     
  6. ProfessionalBerg

    ProfessionalBerg IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    IMHO, this question depends alot on what build you use.

    If you use a Meteorb, it is very good to reach some of the nicer MFing spots in Act 5, namely, Eldritch/Shenk, Pindle, Nihlathak and, if you are confident, Baal (I can solo Baalruns on my Meteorb).

    If you use a Blizzard Sorceress, it is probably a good idea to glitch run Mephisto and Andariel. They don't require dual-elemental builds like most A5 MF spots, and a Blizzard Sorceress excels at killing Mephisto.
     
  7. Aspera

    Aspera IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    How many games in what time frame will get you a temp ban? Is this when Bnet asks you to wait and log back on in 5 minutes? I've just started Hell mode so it will be a while before I start doing any runs, but it'd be nice to have a definitive answer.


     
  8. UberB

    UberB IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    I think it's 3 games created in less than one minute, and it's a temporary IP ban for 15 minutes. Of course i think bnet like to set by its own rules and change them whenever it likes...:rolleyes:
     
  9. nNemethon

    nNemethon IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    My meteorber has yet to come across anything that will stop her. With a full Tal set, War Traveller boots, magies, lidless wall, torch, anni, and caster/mf rings seasoned to taste she has enough str for gear, and all life. no mana or dex. Very rarely dies due to the wonderful cast rate and mows down almost everything in seconds. The longest kill is Baal and that is barely a minute if you are lucky - usually around 30 seconds.
    Her merc is an act 2 def/holy freezer geezer with infinity, CoH and gillaumes face hat. He occasionally dies but with the cash that drops eveywhere and sold items, she has a forever full bank account. I think the last time she died was a lag spike at level ** and she is now 94 and still hosting baal runs.
    The Countess is a doddle due to the merc - one or two pokes and she falls over. :) For unbreakable fire immunes, static and F-Orb are your best friends. Black Souls are your greatest enemy but can be easily dealt with continual tele and fireball spamming.
    (Note: I also have one point in frozen armour, so that if you get hit, you have a chance to tele away before they try again.) ;)

    If you get a null-character or mule into hell, don't complete any quests with it at all. Use it to create the game, quickly quit out and bring in your mfer and all quests will be undone, making the drops that much sweeter on the bosses. And seeing as I have 2 comps and 2 sets of the game, I can leave the creator in the game helping to add a little to the drop rate amongst the normal mosters, with a moderately better chance of a nice magical/rare/socketable drop.

    I am soon looking to rebuild her into the most powerful that I can, but there is not that much more to gain really.
    With the Tal set build, she does approx 450 orb damage, 8k fireball and 15k meteor (from memory). After calculating, at level 90 using Shako, Mara's, Enig, Spider, War Travs, Magies, Hoto, Spirit Shield, caster/mf rings, torch and anni, she will do approx 500 F.Orb, 10k fball and 20k meteor with a lot less mf. You can have approx 245 mf just in the set if you Ptopaz the suit and hat and ist the weapon. Add travs and you have over 300. Shako/Enig will net you 165mf at lev 90 without compromising remaining gear for speed/res/skill/life etc. Add Travs for ~215.
    She will have more life and mana, 105 FCR (second fastest), more def (not that it really helps at these low levels) and look tougher lol. As an mfer, I prefer the Tal setup, but to completely clean larger areas like Diablo's lair and the level 85 areas, I prefer the pricey build.
    (Note: MF levels of 350 is optimum for the mf curve. If you have to start removing gear for more mf your runs will be slower and more dangerous, but there are many arguments about this. :D)

    The trick I found with nith is to tele as far behind him as I can, usually into a corner and lay hell on him with fireballs. He doesn't last long. :)
    Andy dies VERY fast to a few fireballs. She's easier that way I found.
    Meph is the same-ish. Stand back a bit, static, then orb, fb, fb, fb, orb rinse and repeat. If the Merc struggles, teleport so that she is just on-screen and as she chases you or fires, fb the last hp's out of her. (moat trick is nice too tho merc usually gets caned.)
    Carnivore has some very solid advice and as a cheap, very effective mfer, Tal set Meteorber is the way to go and hard to beat. If you have not the cash for infinity, get a Reaper's Toll on your merc, shaft and tal hat. Ever since 1.10 I have had one and love the build. The best attack combo is orb, static, static, static or orb, fb, fb, fb. Always static the bosses except for the weaker ones like andy.

    Also, to avoid temp bannings, no more than 20 games per hour per cd-key and less than five in one minute.

    Hope this is not too much info for you and I hope you do well. IMO, it's the cheapest mf setup, with large advantages that has made me a rather rich idiot. :)
    GL,
    nNem
     
  10. Vespar

    Vespar IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    Another really helpful post here. Thank you very much nNemethon!

    I think that I'll just keep my Meteorb at Act III in hell and not complete the mephisto quest.

    I can log in my wife's necromancer since she's already beat meph that way I won't complete the quest.

    I figure I'll run some of the suggested stuff like andy, countess, pit, summoner, ancient halls, and meph each run.

    Also, is there any benefit to not completing the countess quest?

    Is the council worth going back to kill each time as well?
     
  11. nNemethon

    nNemethon IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    YW Vespar. :)

    A wife that plays? Man do I envy you. lol
    The only benefit from not completing the countess Quest is that the chest that she guards pops open everytime spilling oodles of small gold amounts and some items. I have never seen anything worthwhile drop from that chest but I believe it can drop some nice gear. I forget the droplevel of it but I think it goes pretty high.

    The council is actually one of the best places to regularly get charms from, especially grand charms. They can also drop some very nice gear in the way of rares and uniques and the bonus is that you can stand back and just pound em safely with fireball and meteor and clean the immunes up with orb, static and merc. The gold from them is also cream and can repay a merc death a lot of the time. :) The Council to a meteorber is like a frozen monster to a bowzon. Don't stand too close to the death splashes as sorcies have little life. :)

    Cheers
    nNem

    Another thought - If you do not have a CTA on switch, use a gull dagger/ali-bab and rhyme shield for the killing blow on the bosses. Will add 100+ mf. Just watch yourself as your res can drop well into the red and you lose a lot of cast speed and damage.
     
  12. ProfessionalBerg

    ProfessionalBerg IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    I found that Council can be a pretty dangerous target for a Meteorb - there are many superuniques that can spawn with very very nasty mods. For example, how'd you like a combination of Lightning Enhanced, Conviction, Cursed and Extra Strong (not nessessarily on the same Council)? I mean, even my Hammerdin (twinked like no tomorrow) sometimes has hard times with them, if the mod combo is bad.
     
  13. nNemethon

    nNemethon IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    That's why I bombard them from a distance with meteor, fb and orb first to wipe out the lesser pratts and let the merc eat the rest. The occasional pot helps him if needed. I would never think of dropping in un-announced at a council meeting as they get rather nasty when you by-pass thier doorman lol. With a sorc, that can be rather fatal. ;)
    Also, if the Merc still struggles, try CoH and Andariels Ral'd which gives roughly 20 life leech and with tomb-reaver, around 32 with that lovely decrep aura (combined with his holy freeze). With infinity, he'll still have 20 odd life leech, huge damage, the aura for you and a very nice CB level. A fort can help if he continually dies to hydras/distance shooters (which is where mine usually takes a slapping). Quite pricey I know. Still, a 'Reaver, Tal hat/Gaze/Crown of Thieves and Shaftstop socketed with an Um rune will help him out a lot, but is a bit of a waste of an Um in my books. Keep him in tele with you and he should do well until you weed the numbers down and then you can toss him at the prey. :)

    Cheers
    nNem
     
  14. Jaquiezz

    Jaquiezz IncGamers Member

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    Re: To Meph or not to meph. That is the question.

    I think the answer ultimately depends on your gear. If you have good enough gear to tear apart hell act5 no problem then it might be worth it to not glitch. However, if you are just starting out, staying in act 3 and later advancing might be a good choice. You can MF meph, andy and countess till you are blue in the face, then proceed to act 5 and hit up shenk, pindle and eld (which, personally, I have never had much luck with). This way too, you can see if glitching meph really does you any good!
     

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