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To Marrowwalk or not to Marrowwalk?

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Kaffe, Feb 21, 2004.

  1. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    To Marrowwalk or not to Marrowwalk?

    I've returned from a pretty long vacation from Diablo (stopped playing about two weeks before 1.10). Now I've returned to get some piece of the action and am currently building a Bone PvP necro.

    I wasn't aware of the marrowwalk bug, up until a week ago or so. Some people recommend it, even though it's either banned or considered BM.

    The stats on the boots are fairly nice, although Waterwalks adds more life and the same amount of FR/W.

    Myself, I'm a fan of both Bone Prison and FR/W on a Necro, although my modem prevents me from really taking the greatest use of either one.

    I would need piles of cash to use Bone Prison effectively in a duel. And I could get either more FR/W and more Life from any other boots...

    With that said, is it really worth using Marrowwalk?
     
  2. spiderman2k9

    spiderman2k9 Banned

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    Yes, assuming you will have greater than LvL 33 BnP Skills with gear.

    If your going pure bone for PvP, i suggest the following:

    Max teeth, bone spear, spirit, wall, and prison.

    You do not want to max bone armor because the synergies it gets (+15 dmg from wall / prison) is greater than the actually additions it gets from its own skill (+10 dmg).

    Marrowalks gives str and dex, both useful to a PvPer, and it has mana regen.
    Waterwalks is nice but the +dex is comparable to the +dex on marrowalks and the +65 (on perfect waterwalks) life you get is really negligible when your going to be having alot of life anyway for PvP.

    Just incase you have access to great gear, i'll post my Bone mancers PvP setup at LvL 80

    Stats: 29 str / 130 dex / Rest into Vit / Base energy
    Skills: 5-10 teeth (dont remember), 20 spear, 20 spirit, 20 wall, 20 prison, 1 armor, 1 decreptify.
    Inventory: Anni charm, 7 x PnB (3x 12fhr, 4x 30+Life), and 6 x 20life sc's.

    Gear: Enigma Mage Plate (55 str / 1025 d), cham'd shako, 28 maras, Um'd 194% Homo, 40 HotO Flail, arachnids, 2 x soj, magefists, marrowwalks.

    How do I get enough str? Simple. 29 base + 19 stats anni + 5 stat maras +2 stat shako = 55 str. From there, all my other gear is able to be worn.. yes its a pain waiting until lvl 70 to wear everything but its well worth the saved stat points.

    How much dex to get max block per lvl? I have noticed that every level (since 75) I have needed to put 3 into dex and 2 into vit to keep max block (75%).

    hope this helps.
     
  3. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Everything about the gear part helped, I got my own idea for that :).

    Mainly being able to equip storm vs. physical. I wasn't a big fan of PDR either, but the opportunity to get 50% PDR vs. Physical is damn easy to reach now, and it helps a bit. With a -req jewel, the reqs would be 133. A dusk shroud on that would top it right off, and the extra defense ain't a shame. Only an idea though, right now I put 30 strength, to use a bit of level-up gear. So according to your build I've "wasted" one str. point :p. But then again, I guess our builds will look fairly different.

    I guess 65 life isn't much on the whole, but 15 dex is roughly 30 life, and that's 95 life.

    Currently my gear (will) look something like this:
    - Hoto Flail (only got 36)
    - Shako (Cham)
    - Homunclus (Any socketing, probably Um or Jah or just about anything that enchances life/stats/mana)
    - Enigma Dusk Shroud (missing Jah though)
    - Waterwalks / Aldur's / Marrowalk (undecided as for now)
    - Arachnid's
    - Trang Oul's gloves (for the extra cold res), probably keep magefists and frosties around too
    - Charms is work-in-progress. Got roughly 7 assorted P/B skillers, and 10 * life/res charms. Got some old FR/W / Res as a back-up as well. Seeing which path I will walk (IE "Tele a lot" vs. "Tele not so much"). And look for an anni...
    - 2 x SoJ or 1 x B-K and 1 x SoJ (depending on how much mana/life I think I need).
    - Mara's (for now, might try to get a +3 P/B +100 life magic as well)

    Skills will be maxed Bone Spirit synnergies. And probably add up to a level 1 Decrepify.

    Something like that. But I beleive Prison to be a great stopper against certain classes, and it's a whicked defensive strategy sometimes. Having a limited amount of Prison (and having to repair between each fight) seems inconvinient. Is the extra damage really worth that much?
     
  4. Pallidum

    Pallidum IncGamers Member

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    Damage reduce is overrated, people are going to have a hard time going through your bone armor anyway, so might as well use a homunculus with jah or um like u mentioned and ditch the ss.

    The extra damage on Marrowwalk is significant, and it saves you 20 points to put elsewhere. If you want to duel with it though, you may have to adjust your style to not using prison at all. Its weird at first but is easy to get use to. Furthermore, with decrep and teleport you'll have no trouble chasing another player down, like a zon for example.

    As for enigma, go with a breast plate because then you can basically have base str all the way.

    On a final note, i recommend 125 fast cast on a pvp necro. If you use 75 fast cast against a necro who know hows to duel and is packing 125, you're gonna lose everytime.
     
  5. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Hmm... Enigma Breastplate (looks like hell... but...heh).

    I think you misunderstood. I meant Storm as a back-up. I mean, even how good you are you can't avoid getting hit once. Of course, the block is a bit lower on storm, and that has to be fixed somehow, so it might be a costly choice in the end. But someone did some calculations in .09 and claimed PDR to be A LOT more life than the extra dex needed for blocking...

    125% FCR would mean:

    - Nasty *** circlet (20%)
    - Hoto (40%)
    - Magefists/T-O Gloves (20%)
    - Arachnid's (20%)
    - Crafted Amu (10%-20%)

    That's 110%-120%. Which means: either ditching enigma for stealth/skin of the viper OR ditching a SoJ for a kick-*** FCR ring. It's a lot of life and mana lost too, unless the ring has a 100+ mana bonus...

    Or do you have another idea...?
     
  6. Shenn

    Shenn Banned

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    If you have 20 points into Bone prison, what is the real point in having marrowalks. You dont even have the huge dmg bonus! Unless you used them for teh strand dex bonus....
     
  7. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    If we're talking not utilizing the Marrowwalk bug, then we definetly would have better boots to opt for...
     
  8. Pallidum

    Pallidum IncGamers Member

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    Well the physical damage is cut again in .10, so the calculations may be different. But from personal experience, damage reduce has never been important for me. I just practiced until i can outmaneuver or block any attack,

    Also theres alot of ways to reach 125, my current setup is suicide branch/wiz (50), mage(20), arachnid(20), 2 fast cast rings with life mana, resists (20), and a crafted ammy (20). Thats 130 right there, and i can still wear enigma. Theres alot of room to play around with.

    ps. never been a big fan of hoto.
     
  9. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Well, I've been a way for a while and never really got around to start playing 1.10. I just want to try out most of the new stuff.

    Personally I think Caerin Shard makes a pretty nice wand, but low on FCR.

    Right now, a crafted 20% FCR amu with +2 skills and deasant stats is too expensive and I don't think I have the patience to get to those levels just yet. Eventually I have too but still. And ditching SoJs which also means ditching +2 skills and 50% mana bonus is a sacrifice for me. Not saying you can't be effective without, but still... I think I'll just revise my gear choice a bit more, and see what I can do about it...

    I guess I don't really need the PDR, but in .09 PvP was 99% about looks ;). If I'm going to follow the general opinion a wire fleece would probably make the leanest looking necro. I think I'm going to see if I can get my hold of a Ghost Armor at least.
     
  10. Killfrenzy

    Killfrenzy IncGamers Member

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    Ill say right now that i refuse to use the marrowalk bug.

    2 reasons.

    1:It an EASILY avoidable bug exploitation. With zons guided arrow you would usually be puttin pts into pierce anyway for a better multishot, but this one you can easily avoid by putting pts into bone prison. (besides its a syenergy anyway)

    2:I LOVE BONE PRISON!!!!
     
  11. polarman

    polarman Banned

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    ive just recently made a necro with marrowalks as my other necro bone prison necro could only reach 3.5k dmg i have found him to be much more effective now 5k dmg is an easy target and i havent met a char who can take 4 bone spears yet it is harder to hit some barbs/amas/palas but i find it more entertaing to try and use some skill hitting my oppenent than cageing him in, it forces everybody to have enigma.
     
  12. Kewk_LOC

    Kewk_LOC IncGamers Member

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    If youre nonladder, imps>marrows, the fhr and strenght bonus from them, marrows=110+ strenght req alone, of course if youre usin breast/mage plate then this doesnt matter. The extra damage is not that big a deal, i did 4.7k without the bug which is more than enough damage.
     
  13. kooki

    kooki IncGamers Member

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    I might be new at nec's..but not at casters, why do i need a cham'd shako if i use enigma?
    I'll still cast with the samt cast rate when im cold..or am i wrong;P?
     
  14. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Imps, aren't those East stuff? I'm on Europe. And since rares has been greatly improved, finding a deasant pair shouldn't be too hard.

    In .09 everyone except Sorcs just had to have Can Not Be Frozen. I suppose it's not really needed now that just about anyone can teleport back and forth. But a level 1 teleport ain't that much, it still costs a bit of mana in the run. And even if you have Teleport, as a Necro, you sometimes might want to run a bit. And sometimes you may want to use some other armor than enigma. Not likely but it might happen. I would rather have CBF than not to be truthful. Just to be on the safe-side.

    Of course, if you really plan on tele-ing a lot I suppose you could easily switch that socketing for Sur / Jah / Ber / Jewel.
     
  15. kooki

    kooki IncGamers Member

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    My current gear:
    2*soj
    1*perf maras
    1*enigma light armor 30 str req.
    1*arach
    1*sandstorm (for the fhr and vit ;P)
    1*TO gloves
    1*umsock shako
    1*homonculus umsock

    some p&b skillers, then alot of 19-20 life sc's and also some fhr and mana sc's. and ofc 1 anni.
    Got max block, max res.
    11xx mana, 13xx life (without any ctahelp)
    and i dont need to run vs any meleechar, lower res them and not even a botdpala or barb with 2 angelic ring +amu (good ar) gets the time to kill me when im bs'ing at the same time.

    So imo cham is not needed for a bs-nec of my kind.
    But as u said, if i would need to run, cannot be frozen would surely be needed ;P
     
  16. Ballindaroch

    Ballindaroch IncGamers Member

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  17. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Wouldn't a Jewel with All res. +stats / life / mana / other mods be better than an Um? Or does Um offer other mods than 15 all res now?

    I read somewhere that LR doesn't affect BS anymore... but I'm not sure... someone spit out at me a long time ago when I was checking the forums a few weeks after the patch came out (haven't played since before 1.10, until now that is...)

    Btw @ Ballindaroch. Is that on Europe or another realm? And do you want big bucks for it? Kind of busy with another project, and putting the necro on ice for a bit...
     
  18. Ballindaroch

    Ballindaroch IncGamers Member

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    mybad didnt realize u werent on east..
     
  19. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    NP. Few does.

    I had two pretty good caster rings, before I quit. However, I forgot to mule those two rings to my "safe account" why I dropped in and updated every 29 days or so :). So the character wearing them expired :(.

    One had a lot of mana, and the other had damn nice resistances. For a Shaman at least. He was mainly for Druid vs. Druid so he had great fire resistance. For an 0.9 druid he wasn't too bad, I don't think I ever lost to another druid, except for my wolf that I did with a friend. Of course, I didn't duel too much with him because Druids is a rare thing on Europe, let alone good ones. Most of them still thinks that Hellslayer is as fast as it goes... and that fury fanged knife is the only weapon to give "3 fps fury". Bet they were surprised when I came with a 4 fpa Fury.

    Now I'm just rambling though ...
     
  20. Persecuted

    Persecuted IncGamers Member

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    I`m just wondering how you gona stay at base str and equip morrowwalks?

    Base str is 15 + anni up to 20 chako 2 mara 5 enigma 0-74 = 42-116 str
    assuming you have perf anni.
    Morrowwalks have 118 str req..

    But correct me if I`m wrong
     

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