+ to damage stat on charms

Friiser

Diabloii.Net Member
Is it as simple as getting the highest number of + to min / max damage as one can fit? Or are some inherently more effective due to how damage dealt is calculated during the game?
 

maareek

Diabloii.Net Member
I mean max damage is almost always more valuable than min damage, if that's what you're asking, but as far as "are there times less damage is actually more?" that question can only be answered by knowing everything about the character and what it's running. It may definitely be true with a specific character that running Sharp charms is more effective at outputting damage than pure + damage charms because the build needs the AR, and things like that.
 

Friiser

Diabloii.Net Member
My main goal was to optimize my charm selection for my WW Trav barb. He's using Grief and Oath, Fortitude armor are the main parts of the build.

Here is an example of what I'm questioning.

Fine Small Charm
Small Charm
Required Level: 21
Fingerprint: 0x4c915073
Item Level: 80
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+3 to Maximum Damage
+15 to Attack Rating

Serrated Grand Charm
Grand Charm
Required Level: 59
Fingerprint: 0x39561a5a
Item Level: 80
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+3 to Maximum Damage

Both charms have +3 to maximum damage, but one has a required level of 59, while the other has 21. From a damage output standpoint, do both add the same amount of damage?
 

maareek

Diabloii.Net Member
From a damage output standpoint, do both add the same amount of damage?
On a per charm basis, yes. On a per space basis, no. There's no magical difference between X damage coming from one charm and the same amount coming from a different charm. The reason the required levels are different is because Serrated has a much higher affix level than Fine does; it has no bearing on effectiveness.

That said, if you only have access to 1.10+ charms, Fine and Sharp charms are better for damage than pure damage charms because the pure damage affixes have very low rolls nowadays.
 

ThomasJohnsen

Diabloii.Net Member
Since the low level affix is a prefix and the high level affix is a suffix both can actually spawn. Most times the only way you'll notice is the high level requirement (since they stack), but even in 1.13 you can get the very rare 4/x SCs or 14/x GCs. There was a 4/20 SC for sale on EU ladder many years ago - it went for an insane amount iirc.
 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
Is it as simple as getting the highest number of + to min / max damage as one can fit?
Yes.

Or are some inherently more effective due to how damage dealt is calculated during the game?
Mindmg and maxdmg bonuses have the same impact on average damage. Maxdmg bonuses lead to more extreme results, for good and for bad, mindmg bonuses do the opposite.

Charms can get a bonus from a prefix plus one from a suffix. Mindmg can only occur on prefixes and the maxdmg bonuses are much better there. In short: Maxdmg all the way.

I mean max damage is almost always more valuable than min damage, if that's what you're asking
I think less randomness is better in most cases, so I like mindmg more. However, mindmg bonuses are usually lower than maxdmg ones... except for those coming from runes, although Sol has a higher level req than Ith.

Both charms have +3 to maximum damage, but one has a required level of 59, while the other has 21. From a damage output standpoint, do both add the same amount of damage?
Yes, but the GC needs more space, of course. The level reqs for those prefixes which add just maxdmg or mindmg (like on your small charm) are so high because of a design flaw. The max/ar bonuses are higher at the same of lower level reqs.

Edit: Note to self - Better PROOFREADING next time! Nonsense paragraph removed, typos fixed.
 

Cyrax

Diabloii.Net Member
While it is possible to get +4 max dam (or even more in early patches) on a sc, it's not always the best option. With the +3 ones you also get AR, so depending on your chance to hit it may be more beneficial to take a slightly lower damage but have an increased chance to apply it. That's why 3/20/20's are so popular. You get max dam, AR and an increase in life. That's what you call win-win-win.
 

Friiser

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks all for the clarification. I was thinking that the differences may be rooted in the calculation of damage (i.e. before a multiplier) based on a specific suffix or prefix, but I'm glad to now know that my thoughts were wrong.

<--- goes off to read up on version switchers, time traveling, etc.
 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
FYI, I removed an utterly wrong paragraph in my posting which said that charms can get mindmg for suffixes only. The opposite is the case.
 

Cyrax

Diabloii.Net Member
Poison damage on charms is mainly good for a nice LCS. They don't do much in terms of actual enhancement of your killing speed. I usually keep one in inventory of physical damage dealers as a measure of PMH, but that's it.

A plain +100 or even +175 sc shouldn't be that hard to find/roll. Higher ones or with nice secondary stats is a different matter.
 

ThomasJohnsen

Diabloii.Net Member
While it is possible to get +4 max dam (or even more in early patches) on a sc, it's not always the best option. With the +3 ones you also get AR, so depending on your chance to hit it may be more beneficial to take a slightly lower damage but have an increased chance to apply it. That's why 3/20/20's are so popular. You get max dam, AR and an increase in life. That's what you call win-win-win.
The +4 max. dmg. SC and the +14 max. dmg. GC have the same AR possibilities as the +3/+10 ones. I have no clue about the earlier versions, since I don't time-travel and haven't played earlier versions since they were current.
But you are right ofc - the 4/20 or 14/xx are glass-cannon tools while vita/life ones are much more versatile.
 

Cyrax

Diabloii.Net Member
It is? I don't think i ever found one with AR so i thought it wasn't possible. Guess i just wasn't lucky enough.
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
+4 max damage SC and +14 max damage GC always spawn with AR since one of affixes include "fine" or "sharp", and they give both max damage and AR simultaneously. Strongest charms in that part would be

Fine Small Charm of Craftmanship
+4 max damage and +20 AR (weakest AR possible is 10 since "fine" prefix ranges from 10 to 20)

Sharp Grand Charm of Maiming
+14 max damage and +76 AR (weakest possible AR is 49)

But, it is rarely ever 1 extra max damage on SC worth more than 20 life, or 4 max damage on GC worth more than 40 life (or 45!).
 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
cough cough...

(...)It seems my lucky streak continues. I just found this one:

Code:
Sharp Large Charm of Quality
Keep in Inventory to Gain Bonus
Required Level: 48
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 85
Fingerprint: 0xa71fd887
+48 to Attack Rating
+8 to Maximum Damage
Perfect roll on prefix, plus "of quality" suffix (another +2 maxdmg) :)(...)
Better than two maxdmg SCs, but don't fit below a skiller.
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
That is fine. Usually characters who need those don't use skillers, perhaps in some special occasion. At least I can't recall ever using skiller on character that needed max damage in inventory.
 
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