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"To Be Expected"

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Psychic Watch, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. Psychic Watch

    Psychic Watch IncGamers Member

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    "To Be Expected"

    After 1.10 was released I decided to see what it took for an untwinked, /players 8 solo character to get through the entire game.


    Following jrichard's Lightning Trapasin guide, I went through and found every waypoint and completed all quests, while trying to stay in the best experience zone for the character level (usually +/-5).


    Along the way I also kept track of rune, gem, and unique/set drops, to get a sense of what could be expected from a typical Patriarch/Matriarch run.

    Here are the results:

    Code:
    [SIZE=1]Normal:									
    	Amethyst	Diamond	Emerald	Ruby	Sapphire	Topaz	Skull		
    Chipped	25	35	29	14	29	28	23		
    Flawed	9	15	21	6	14	13	9		
    Normal	7	9	9	9	16	16	9		
    Flawless	0	5	2	3	2	0	1		
    Perfect	0	0	0	0	0	1*	0		
    									
    							Unique	Set	
    							9	16	
    									
    El	Eld	Tir	Nef	Eth	Ith	Tal	Ral	Ort	Thul
    18	22	11	10	16	4	2	6	3	1*
    									
    Amn	Sol	Shael	Dol						
    1	0	0	1						
    [/SIZE]
    
    Code:
    [SIZE=1]
    Nightmare:									
    	Amethyst	Diamond	Emerald	Ruby	Sapphire	Topaz	Skull		
    Chipped	4	4	1	2	5	6	3		
    Flawed	6	10	5	7	13	10	4		
    Normal	18	15	15	13	13	12	2		
    Flawless	20	13	15	26	20	19	18		
    Perfect	0	0	1*	0	0	0	0		
    									
    							Unique	Set	
    							17	17	
    									
    El	Eld	Tir	Nef	Eth	Ith	Tal	Ral	Ort	Thul
    16	7	11	4	7	2	2	2	4	3
    									
    Amn	Sol	Shael	Dol	Hel	Io	Lum	Ko+		
    2	1	2	1	0	1	1*	0		
    									
    									
    Total Normal + Nightmare:							
    	Amethyst	Diamond	Emerald	Ruby	Sapphire	Topaz	Skull		
    Chipped	29	39	30	16	34	34	26		
    Flawed	15	25	26	13	27	23	13		
    Normal	25	24	24	22	29	28	11		
    Flawless	20	18	17	29	22	19	19		
    Perfect	0	0	1	0	0	1	0		
    									
    							Unique	Set	
    							26	33	
    									
    									
    El	Eld	Tir	Nef	Eth	Ith	Tal	Ral	Ort	Thul
    34	29	22	14	23	6	4	8	7	4
    									
    Amn	Sol	Shael	Dol	Hel	Io	Lum	Ko+		
    3	1	2	2	0	1	1	0		
    [/SIZE]
    
    Code:
    [SIZE=1]
    Hell:									
    	Amethyst	Diamond	Emerald	Ruby	Sapphire	Topaz	Skull		
    Chipped	5	2	7	2	5	6	1		
    Flawed	11	13	10	10	9	15	4		
    Normal	10	15	15	13	9	14	9		
    Flawless	19	19	27	26	13	21	9		
    Perfect	0	1*	0	0	0	0	0		
    									
    							Unique	Set	
    							14	19	
    									
    El	Eld	Tir	Nef	Eth	Ith	Tal	Ral	Ort	Thul
    21	10	18	8	5	1	7	2	3	0
    									
    Amn	Sol	Shael	Dol	Hel	Io	Lum	Ko+		
    2	3	1	1	0	0	1 + 1*	0
    
    
    
    
    Total, All Difficulties:
    						
    	Amethyst	Diamond	Emerald	Ruby	Sapphire	Topaz	Skull		
    Chipped	34	41	37	18	39	40	27		
    Flawed	26	38	36	23	36	38	17		
    Normal	35	39	39	35	38	42	20		
    Flawless	39	37	44	55	35	40	28		
    Perfect	0	1	1	0	0	1	0		
    									
    							Unique	Set	
    							40	52	
    									
    El	Eld	Tir	Nef	Eth	Ith	Tal	Ral	Ort	Thul
    55	39	40	22	28	7	11	10	10	4
    									
    Amn	Sol	Shael	Dol	Hel	Io	Lum	Ko+		
    5	4	3	3	0	1	3	0		[/SIZE]
    
    * Denotes Hellforge drop.


    Some interesting trends were the progression of gem quality, the relative scarcity of skulls (and of course runes :rolleyes: ), the overall balance of gems (except Flawless Rubies :eek: ), the off-tapering of rune quality, and the number of uniques/sets (despite not carrying much, if any, Magic Find).


    **Results may not be typical. Consult your Witch Doctor Endugu before use.
     
  2. tenaka

    tenaka IncGamers Member

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    Very interesting. I've always thought that skulls were more rare than other gems and your data backs that up. Its also a surprise that the runes werent any better in hell than in NM. You got close to the same number of sets/uniques in each diff and I have no idea what that means other than you probably had the same ammt of mf.
     
  3. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    Very interesting information there. Nothing too unexpected, as you say.
     
  4. Shagsbeard

    Shagsbeard IncGamers Member

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    huh? Maybe I've had too much, but.... huh?
     
  5. Dodgydave

    Dodgydave IncGamers Member

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    Interesting results there Psychic. There are less skulls than other gems since skulls only drop at half the rate of the other gem types, so nothing unusual there.

    It's interesting to see the lack of mid level runes in general. Only 2 Amns, 1 sol and 1 shael through NM.
     
  6. sunbearie

    sunbearie IncGamers Member

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    I was disappointed to see that the rate of gems falling were more or less similar since my "gut" feeling told me diamonds fell more than any other gems.

    Would the no. of els dropped be proportional to the scarity of els compared to eg. amns?

    Good set of data Psychic Watch especially in keeping track of it all.
     
  7. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    I completely agree with this statement, however feel it affects Single Player much more than online play. The lack of mid to high level runes falling is a major concern, and clearly shows one of the games flaws.
     
  8. jiansonz

    jiansonz IncGamers Member

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    Did you do full clears?
    How much MF were you wearing in general?

    Looking at the numbers, they correspond pretty well to my 'gut feeling' of how much that is to be expected. Of course, with a sample of only one, weird things will nearly always show up, like your many flawless rubies and the very few Ith runes (only ONE in Hell!).

    Why is that? Because you can party up to overcome difficult fights?
     
  9. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    No, I was talking about rune drops.

    Before I go anywhere, I would like to state that I am aware the majority of runes on Battle.Net are questionable.

    My comment was based upon the fact, that the lack of mid to high level rune drops in the sample provided (it would be nice to have more samples to comment on) highlights the drop % flaw which impacts upon the Single Player predominantly more than online.

    Not saying that those drop %'s do no occur on online play, but the online playing community is substantially larger than the Single Player. Added to that, there are many players of Diablo 2 who, upon purchasing the product will never see the high runes due to the drop %.

    This was smart initially by Blizzard, as a teaser for people to play the game longer to try and gain possession of those runes, however, now near the 'end' of the game (well after so many years) I feel that Blizzard should at least lower the % to allow users to legitimately achieve these drops before moving onto other games.

    Sorry for the slight hijack.
     
  10. sunbearie

    sunbearie IncGamers Member

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    Hmm, doesn't the countess already solves that problem in a way. Just run her a few times for mid-level runes (tal-shael IMO).

    I can see how its bad though if you're playing like jiansonz, ie. no replay of areas.

    Online, people can trade for their runes, its a bigger pool, hence "easier" to get mid-level runes.
     
  11. jiansonz

    jiansonz IncGamers Member

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    Ah, so it´s because of the trading, not the fact that you are playing online.

    So I would be in the same situation online as in SP, if I played there and didn´t trade?
     
  12. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    I believe I have to clarify that I am talking about the runes:

    - Ist
    - Vex
    - Ohm
    - Cham

    Yes the Countess does solve the problems for 'mid' mid runes. As I stated the comments I've made are slated towards a very small sample, and really shouldn't be thought upon too hard as they are not based on any conclusive results.

    The sample given did show the trend of the rarity of runes. Yes, online trading is a huge component of gaining the higher runes as the rune drop %'s remain the same.

    I did state the larger community size of online play does allow for more runes. Not just in trading, but also in the amount of people. More people playing for more hours obviously results in more chances for rune drops.

    If you played online, and didn't trade then you will simply experience the same drop rates as Single Player. As far as I am aware there is no alteration of chances between online and offline play.
     
  13. Rizzo

    Rizzo IncGamers Member

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    I partly agree with this.
    Look at our community. It has existed for many years and only one have found a zod. In other words, forget about ever finding one. It's not gonna happen. You have a better chance winning a million dollars in the lottery, and I for one would rather do that :D
    On the other hand this is what keeps the game going. The neverending treasure-hunt

    EDIT: sorry about the OT
     
  14. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    I seem to be rustling up a few feathers in this board.

    Do not take me wrong. I am not saying that runes should be in never ending supply. What I am saying is that each person who purchases the game should at least have a chance (a better chance than currently) to see a Zod (as an extension of your example).

    Not every consumer has the time or want to sit down and play a game for 5+ years and be no closer to seeing something that they desire.

    My comments have not been made to be pro-rune or that runes should be available on demand, simply an observation from my experience. Is it right or wrong? No, simply my thoughts.
     
  15. Rizzo

    Rizzo IncGamers Member

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    And don't get me wrong either :)

    As I said, I partly agree. I can see it from both sides.
    I too think it's a problem that there's no chance to ever find a zod, cham whatever. I for one don't play this game very often, but would still like the opportinuty to land a rune myself. I found a vex not long time ago, but then stopped playing and gave it to Corax.
    But on the other hand, it's probably the reason that people keep playing. I don't think this game would be so interesting if everyone would have a fair chance of finding a zod. Right or wrong? Just my opinion :D
     
  16. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    I'm sorry Tiberius..but I don't agree with you either...I think runes are special and they should be very rare...where I do think Blizzard has failed is in the selection of runewords. There should be more useful low-midlevel runewords to use. After all runes such as Ist and Vex are within reasonable grasp as Shermo and Illiana have showed us. The current high-level runewords are of course ridiculous...a high-level runeword should at most have 1 high-end rune + 1 semi high-end rune....stuff like 3xJah or whatever is too far fetched. Stuff like Spirit and Oath are good examples of runewords that are powerful and can be made with a little dedication (although I feel that Spirit is slightly overpowered considering the runes). The High-end runewords are special, they usually confer an unusal ability (Enigma=teleport), so I think they should be very rare.

    On topic: Looks interesting although you seem to be finding a lot more set/uniques than I have done with my 2 patriarchs:( But it's difficult to be certain with such a "small" data sample. Did you find anything useful?
     
  17. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    The fact of the matter, I was simply making a small observation, which has been completely expanded into a region where I and the original poster didn't want to go.

    Seeing as this seems to be going further.

    I certainly did not mention Zod. You did. In retrospect, I should have been more clear with my meanings. The entire conversation has little relevance to myself. I do not use runewords, despite having the capabilities of making them, I was trying to be impartial to my own feelings on runes, I think I failed.

    Perhaps my thoughts are incorrect, I am prepared to admit that. Ultimately, I attempted to make an impartial comment concerning rune drop % which derived from the original posters findings.

    I am here shaking my head.

    I believe I have stated at least twice that I am not claiming runes should fall off trees. Please, show me where I have said that? I have made several comments that I am of the opinion that there should not be a over supply of them, yet it seems that I am being pulled up on Zod's and runes dropping everywhere.

    Yes, I totally agree that runes should be rare. However, I am simply trying to express that an average player who has played the game for two years surely should have a slightly (note the word slightly) improved chance of gaining a high rune, or two. This would ultimately reduce the level of duping.

    If you read over my posts you will find a common theme. I do not use runewords. High end runewords anyway. I prefer utilising other equipment choices.

    I also agree that Blizzard have errored on the selection of runewords. I feel that more set, unique and low and mid level runewords, and specifically more obtainable but balanced high end runewords would be much better. Even new prefixes and suffixes could be good.

    Either way, I enjoy playing the game. I play both online and Single Player, and won't alter a thing.
     
  18. sunbearie

    sunbearie IncGamers Member

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    Good thing you clarified. I never thought of the above as "mid' level runes. Actually for offline play, by virtue of the P8 command, we can ensure the "maximum" number of drops and we're the only ones to pick them up.

    PM: did you wear any mf at all and were full clears of each area done(including cows).
     
  19. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    My example there is not the best, and I believe my usage of the term 'mid' has been a little deceiving, and slightly altered by online play to a degree.
     
  20. jiansonz

    jiansonz IncGamers Member

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    Probably. For me, 'mid' runes are in the Ort-Hel region.
     

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