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Tips for untwinked?

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by leetserv, Aug 29, 2006.

  1. leetserv

    leetserv IncGamers Member

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    Tips for untwinked?

    It's been a long time since last i played untwinked, and i'm gonna start all over with a friend of mine today who has almost never played the game before. So i need two things:

    1. Tips on how to introduce people to the game
    2. Tips on how to get as powerful as possible as fast as possible when playing untwinked.

    I already know: Cubing rings and ammys to reroll, Making savage polearms, selling throwing potions, gambling belts and gloves.
    We will be playing on ladder.
     
  2. BlueOctoberFan

    BlueOctoberFan IncGamers Member

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    1. Recall that when you started, odds are you didn't go through an area until you killed everything in it and could see as much of the map as possible. Don't push too quickly. Try not to be heavy handed with guidance; feel free to recommend, but realize that, most likely, the first few chars the person makes will be messed up in some fashion.

    2. Primary way, build characters to compliment eachother (Sorc and Vengence Pally, etc.). Otherwise: grab, sell, trade. Not sure what else to say. Some builds are better for untwinked than others, like a Fishymancer or a Trapper.
     
  3. Inokis

    Inokis IncGamers Member

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    Wind druids are also an effective sorc type build, where a conviction aura could be used to aid in the killing.

    As far as playing untwinked (same way I play), concentrate on resistances. You'll be surprised how much you can survive with crap gear as long as you keep your resistances up. Your goal when untwinked is to kill stuff faster than you get hit. This relies on heavy skillpoint investments. A lot of hybrid builds use lots and lots of skills gear to use the skill items to pump skills, which allow for maxed skill trees (20 skills points) while only putting one point into specific skills. While this wont work for synergized skills, it does work for builds that rely on masteries. Since this won't be a choice for you, build is important.

    Evaluate the needs of both you and your friend. Remember that mercs can be effective tanks. A necro also has the benefit of iron golem (which can very well act as a second merc). Between two mercs, two caster types should be able to clear just about anything. Paladins have a diversity between physical damage and elemental/magic damage builds, as do druids and assassins. Barbs are pretty much tanks with limited elemental damage resources. Zons have the advantage of ranged attacks, keeping her safe from physical damage, as well as an option for magic/elemental damage. Zons are also a highly defensive class.

    There are a lot of options and a lot of effective builds for untwink play.
     
  4. BlueOctoberFan

    BlueOctoberFan IncGamers Member

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    1. Recall that when you started, odds are you didn't go through an area until you killed everything in it and could see as much of the map as possible. Don't push too quickly. Try not to be heavy handed with guidance; feel free to recommend, but realize that, most likely, the first few chars the person makes will be messed up in some fashion.

    2. Primary way, build characters to compliment eachother (Sorc and Vengence Pally, etc.). Otherwise: grab, sell, trade. Not sure what else to say. Some builds are better for untwinked than others, like a Fishymancer or a Trapper.
     
  5. bg1256

    bg1256 IncGamers Member

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    Focus on survivability over killing power. IMO, it's more frustrating to die all the time than to kill slowly.

    Have him build the support character (conviction pally, ie), and you build the more powerful killer (ie, meteorb sorc... or whatever you guys do).

    Get your resistances up and boost vitality. Prefer high vit over max block, since the shields you'll be using will be awful, unless you get really lucky early.

    If he chooses a paladin, holy shield would of course make up for that.

    Taht's all I can think of off hand...

    edit: maybe he could build a skelliemancer... those are super easy untwinked, and you just max skellies and mastery, and then you have a lot of other options.
     
  6. Fluffballer

    Fluffballer IncGamers Member

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    I would reccomend letting your friend pick his own build and then you compliment it. If you "assign" him a character that he hates, you may bore him and ruin D2 for him. Sure, skellimancers do awesome untwinked, but enjoying playing one might be more of an acquired taste.
     
  7. Evrae Altana

    Evrae Altana IncGamers Member

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    Let him loose to play the game however he chooses. Give him some basic information about the game (TPs, waypoints, etc.). The first chars he makes will be absolutely horrible, but it doesn't matter as long as he has fun.
     
  8. leetserv

    leetserv IncGamers Member

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    He picked a lightning sorc and we started playing. When we reached level 10 i was bored to death and fell asleep on the couch. Then he took my PC instead to play Half-life 2. He said he liked it, but he likes hl2 better :)

    So guess we'll be playing some more later. How do i make this fun again? It used to be.
     
  9. Fluffballer

    Fluffballer IncGamers Member

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    You could play TCP/IP on players8. If you can get him a HC character, you could do that as well, since you're probably not aiming for a hell viable character that can slaughter the ubers, but rather to have fun right now.

    Or if you just mean fun for YOU, try a quirky or underpowered build. Normal is easy enough you can't die no matter what you play.
     
  10. leetserv

    leetserv IncGamers Member

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    He picked a lightning sorc and we started playing. When we reached level 10 i was bored to death and fell asleep on the couch. Then he took my PC instead to play Half-life 2. He said he liked it, but he likes hl2 better :)

    So guess we'll be playing some more later. How do i make this fun again? It used to be.
     
  11. BluzMan

    BluzMan Banned

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    Well, some tips on playing untwinked.

    First, use a character that relies on skill damages, not +% damage. A sorc, a hammerdin and etc are all good choices. If you intend to play alone, choose a character that can effectively do at least two kinds of damage. And playing untwinked is done best with a ranged char, so a hammerdin, though he can rely on one skill to finish the game, might just not have the guts to be that close to monsters.

    Second, your character must have nominal ways of crowd control. Summon necros do it best, next come assassins with mind blast and CoS. Any kind of slow (even cold, though it could be tough) and/or distraction is a good way to go. Every char will have a merc (hello, untwinked use ONLY melee mercs) but having another summon is a very nice thing.

    Some other tips on starting:

    1) Gems are your best friends. You can make armors/helms with as much as +30 life or mana with chipped gems and quilted armors/caps. Having +50 life or mana right at the start is a very nice thing. A fast weapon with 3 chipped topazes or rubies will generally be able to take you up to Act 3. (Duriel can be a pain however) Later, don't discard gems and runes. The reward from the quest 2 in act 5 can net you a weapon capable of soloing Normal. Just find a 4-socket fast weapon and insert those runes with that perfect gem you found at the Hellforge. Needless to say, perfect gems even later in the game can be used to create monstrous items. 4 psapphires is +160 mana, very helpful for untwinked chars.

    2) Don't discard elemental charms. The best buy is a small charm of frost, which will give you all the crowd control you need in normal. Poison/lightning charms are also a really good thing.

    3) Scan the Arreat Summit for original runewords. Most are crap, but some are real beauty and almost all come dirt cheap. The ones noteable are Lore, Nadir (CoS charges), Holy Thunder (again, a viable Normal soloer, best for melee pallies and is guaranteed to be made early in Act5), Honor (viable in NM and, to some extent, even in Hell if you're a good player), Leaf (dirt cheap, and has good mods for some kind of sorcs), White and Memory (somewhat costly for untwinked chars, runes Io+ come quite rare, but these two can be considered endgame gear), Rhyme (Cannot be Frozen, an essential mod for any melee char, plus good block, mf and resists), Smoke (godly resists for such cost), Stealth (very interesting and cheap armor, you will need a good bonus to FRW anyway if you wanna play safe), Zephyr (a bow exlusive to bowadins and venomsins, but for those its really really good even in late Nightmare, again, for its FRW bonus).

    4) There are a few 1.10 - 1.11 RWs also worth mentioning, but they are really dependent on Hellforges and, to a much lesser extent, Countess drops. We will assume you never get any runes Mal+, but if your NM forge gave you a rune ranging from Lem to Um, consider those:

    Crescent Moon - easily an endgame item, priority #1, requires an Um
    Duress - many people duel with this, Crushing Blow, FHR and good armor, also a good choice, requires an Um
    Gloom - a slightly improved version of Smoke, but costs godzillions more. Only make if you don't use weapons and somehow both need defense and resists badly, requires an Um and a Pul.
    Passion - a fun runeword, could be viable in Hell, and gives you Berserk which somewhat solves the physimmune problem. Is beaten by Crescent Moon hands down, but only costs a Lem.
    Splendor - if you can't find a Lidless wall and have a stash full of Lum runes, make this one. It almost completely mimics Lidless' stats, although Lidless still seems easier to find than a Lum rune.
    Stone - alright, you won't make this untwinked, but, if you by some crazy twist of fate get your hands on a Lum, a Pul and an Um together, this one will forever solve any FHR or defense problems you had.
    Treachery - what can I say, 45 IAS, CTC Venom and Fade, all for a Lem. A best way to spend a Lem for an archer and even some melee char.
    Peace - you get a much needed tank for almost nothing. Add in a FHR bonus and build-in Critical Strike, and you got another good armor.
    Myth - good for singers, bad for everyone else. Comes almost free though.

    5) Ladder runewords. Well, I play untwinked in SP, so I don't use those, but their crazy low cost and crazy godly stats make them a must-know for any untwinked char. Will not delve into the details, but you MUST know these:

    Edge (gambling and good IAS for a starter, thorns also quite nice)
    Harmony (crazy damage for its cost and Vigor aura, also Valk and revives - could be rated Best Budget Bow of all time)
    Insight (unlimited mana from now on)
    Obedience (sky-high damage, 40% CB and resists, this is a monster weapon)
    Spirit (unhealthy amounts of FHR, FCR and +skills, most imba item ever, thankfully, you can only make shield spirits in Monarchs and Wards)

    Anyway, using ladder RW's when playing untwinked is kinda strange because of their sheer imbalancement, but if you're on the realms, its up to you.

    6) Item tips. Getting items is mandatory even of an untwinked char to enter Hell. You can't solo Hell with PGem'd weapons and armor, unfortunately. Good item farms for untwinked chars:

    Normal Meph - I usually skip this one, but, if you don't like gemmed weapons, this guy can net you something that will be semi-viable until you meet his NM version. Also the place to get a Sigon's Set, although I consider Sigon pop and never use it ^^.

    Normal Baal - if you're not yet lvl 45, get lvl 45 before going NM. Helps. You could get some nice drops in the meantime.

    NM Countess - you are expected to run her alot at some point. She gives low-mid runes, something you always need for weapon/armor upgrades and cheap runewords.

    NM Meph - your bread and butter if you play singleplayer, as you only have to find a good map layout and then run him without trouble. Can give very potent gear, ranging from simple, but nevertheless effective exceptional uniques like Gloom's Trap to monster items like HoZ. 20-30 runs will gear you up and cover the weakest spots so that you can continue playing Nightmare without trouble.

    NM Baal - up to lvl 75. Hard, but rewarding, Hell is much harder anyway.

    Next, forget Hell Bosses. Running Hell Bosses is for specialized MF chars, your goal is to meet each one only once. In Hell, you will run superuniques.

    Hell Countess - a hard and long run, probably only applicable in singleplayer with good map layout. Its very hard to get Um and higher runes from her, but, if you run her enough (enough for a singleplayer char is not really that much), you will get a Lem or a Pul eventually.

    Hell Pits - no, you're not here after Windforces, its the place to get your char from level 75 he finished NM at to lvl ~82. This is very helpful to journey through Hell later.

    Hell Eldritch/Shenk - this was the place my first ever singleplayer sorc forged her way towards Hell Baal she eventually killed. Singleplayer untwinked MF runs are HERE.

    Hell Pindle - this guy's advantage is the ability to drop godly stuff, not overall drop quality. You won't have the time/mf to get a Death's Fathom here, so better run Eldritch. Also extremely unadvised for HC chars due to chargelock.

    Gambling - one real way to get a good weapon. For an untwinked char, 200+ ed and some IAS is already considered good. Also, later in the game this is the place you get premium jewelry from. While your other items may have different origins, I can assure you that your rings/amulet will most probably be gambled.

    Crafting - normally noone crafts weapons, but its not that bad when untwinked. Also a very nice source of gloves provided you have the ingredients.

    Shopping - number one armor supplier. Keep keen for those Godly Archon Plates at Hell Anya. They are not that rare, in fact. Also, this is a good source for Cruel weapons which are quite Hell-viable if you're desperate.

    One of the best budget armors for a fighter is an upped Goldskin. About 800 defense and +35 resist all make it very attractive.

    Alright, I understand that you know most of this. Also a large section of untwinked tricks still remained uncovered. Well, I hope that some of this info helped, since I enjoy playing untwinked and would gladly share my experience. Also, I've never ever got anything good from rings/amulets cube recipe. Gambled are much better. ^^
     

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