Time

Time

I'm spinning a Chat into a thread.

Is time a dimension? Is it a real thing or did humans just make it up to help convey thoughts and organize data in our heads?


I don't think time is real, I think we made it up to help make sense of the world. The idea of it is the basis of our methods of thought and ties in well with our natural memory.

All of our measurements of time are based off of measuring length.
 

WebDragon

Diabloii.Net Member
{KOW}Spazed said:
I'm spinning a Chat into a thread.

Is time a dimension? Is it a real thing or did humans just make it up to help convey thoughts and organize data in our heads?


I don't think time is real, I think we made it up to help make sense of the world. The idea of it is the basis of our methods of thought and ties in well with our natural memory.

All of our measurements of time are based off of measuring length.
Talking about time, maybe its time you fixed your tar? :hide:
 

Freet

Diabloii.Net Member
As we discussed in a previous thread, my contention is that time is our way of sectionalizing our existance which was a necessary part of organizing our lives.

Does it exist? Only in our minds. The real question is whether that is enough to give it 'exists' status.
 

ogogo on ice

Diabloii.Net Member
I think time is an actual thing that exists, but that may be because I can't wrap my brain around it. I agree that its a way to measure things, but without time, what would movement be? There would be no difference between something like acceleration and velocity or position, because you need time for those to be different. I think that physics is close enough to correct that time is necessary and actually a dimension.
 
Freet said:
As we discussed in a previous thread, my contention is that time is our way of sectionalizing our existance which was a necessary part of organizing our lives.

Does it exist? Only in our minds. The real question is whether that is enough to give it 'exists' status.
This sums up what I think nicely.

WD: My 'tar is a piece of OTF history, it shall remain unchanged.


OOI: There is no difference, something can only be going one speed at any given instant.
 

llad12

Diabloii.Net Member
Some say that time is the 4th dimension as things must endure in order to exist. Others say that time is simply change.

I would go into this more, but, damn ... look at the time!

Gotta go!

:wink:
 

xXxXshadowXxXx

Diabloii.Net Member
I actually remember arguing with my religion/philosophy teacher about time. I had argued it was something we made up as a measurement. He first replied with, see this desk? it has a width. I had replied yes but we made it that width in ## cm.

He then said, but the point is it HAS a width. It was then basically ended with him saying Einstein prooved time existed in his formula..He also walked away then -_-"
 

Merick

Diabloii.Net Member
As I said in chat:
2d beings would say the third dimension is time. As would 5d beings the 6th.
Entropy always increases over time. This is a measureable physical difference between past and future, i.e. not a subjective human thought. Not to mention causality.
 

WebDragon

Diabloii.Net Member
{KOW}Spazed said:
WD: My 'tar is a piece of OTF history, it shall remain unchanged.
I just wanna see the ol' boy dancing again. Gives a face for the victory dance of pant stealage. :jig:
 

Stompwampa

Diabloii.Net Member
I would say that a dimension can only be so if it has always been so. And it must also be measurable.
Height, width and depth have always been a part of existance. Plus, they are quite easily measured. Therefore, it would be easy to call those "dimensions."
Time, by the term we know it today, has only been in existance since we started measuring it and breaking it up into comprehensive pieces. However, "time" other than what we know it as today, has always existed. If it were not for time, nothing could live, die, move or think.
I think that our means of measuring time is man-made, but time itself is not.
And since time is measureable, I would draw the conclusion that it is a dimension.
 
See that is where I disagree, I think time is strictly a way to deal with memory. It makes it easier to sort things out in our minds. However, it cannot be measured because all the ways we measure it are based on another dimension(length).
 

Quietus

Diabloii.Net Member
{KOW}Spazed said:
See that is where I disagree, I think time is strictly a way to deal with memory. It makes it easier to sort things out in our minds. However, it cannot be measured because all the ways we measure it are based on another dimension(length).

Are you suggesting, then, that all of our lives are happening at one instant, a blip on some universal span, and that our memories are things that have no perception of time, but that we organize them, subconsciously, into being so? If that's the case, then why, for example, do I not have any memories of things that haven't happened yet? Why would nothing that's going on in my life now have been affected by things that happen in my future? If time didn't exist, then that implies that all things are happening at the exact same moment, and so nothing could be completely free of influence from things that we percieve as being "Before" and "after".

I say that time does exist, just as height, width, and depth do - and that our methods of measuring it are our way of taking control of our world in such a way that we can interact with it. Even without measurements, time would still exist. Cave men still saw the sun travel through the sky, they still knew that they would have to get their food before it went back down, else they wouldn't be able to see. Just because they didn't necessarily measure hours, and minutes, the way that we do, doesn't mean that they didn't percieve time's passing.
 

ragnar_ii

Diabloii.Net Member
Time is a dimension. You cant say an object is at coordinates x,y,z and know where it is. x,y,z exists in all time. You need to say what the time is to know the exact position.

As for the measurements of time being a measurement of length, well that length is the distance that light travels one meter. That means it involves the speed of light. Speed has units of distance/time. So, in a way its using its self to define itself. So, yes our definition sucks, but I cant think of a better one, but time still exists as a dimension.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Anything can be a dimension if you want it to be. If you don't believe me, then first answer this question; what is a dimension? And no, it's not where Krang comes from.

Merick said:
As I said in chat:
2d beings would say the third dimension is time. As would 5d beings the 6th.
Entropy always increases over time. This is a measureable physical difference between past and future, i.e. not a subjective human thought. Not to mention causality.
Well, only if they could move back in time as easily as forward. Time is distinct from the spatial dimensions in that it only goes one way (although actually, on a philosophical level that's not necessarily true, but we'll stick with a physics perspective I think).

Stompwampa said:
I would say that a dimension can only be so if it has always been so. And it must also be measurable.
There's no reason to suppose either.

Stompwampa said:
Height, width and depth have always been a part of existance. Plus, they are quite easily measured. Therefore, it would be easy to call those "dimensions."
Time, by the term we know it today, has only been in existance since we started measuring it and breaking it up into comprehensive pieces.
How do you know the same isn't true of height, width and depth?
 
quietus said:
Are you suggesting, then, that all of our lives are happening at one instant, a blip on some universal span, and that our memories are things that have no perception of time, but that we organize them, subconsciously, into being so? If that's the case, then why, for example, do I not have any memories of things that haven't happened yet? Why would nothing that's going on in my life now have been affected by things that happen in my future? If time didn't exist, then that implies that all things are happening at the exact same moment, and so nothing could be completely free of influence from things that we percieve as being "Before" and "after".

I say that time does exist, just as height, width, and depth do - and that our methods of measuring it are our way of taking control of our world in such a way that we can interact with it. Even without measurements, time would still exist. Cave men still saw the sun travel through the sky, they still knew that they would have to get their food before it went back down, else they wouldn't be able to see. Just because they didn't necessarily measure hours, and minutes, the way that we do, doesn't mean that they didn't percieve time's passing.
How do you know you don't know them? There are people out there that say they can predict the future, maybe they can just access the memories easier. I'm saying there are no instances, just movement in space.

Cave men might not have understood the concept of time, but that doesn't mean they can't use it. Lots of people can't describe how computers work, but they still use them.


Gah it is really hard to put into words my actual argument, language is too closely tied with the concept of time to really show it.
 

bladesyz

Diabloii.Net Member
Stompwampa said:
I would say that a dimension can only be so if it has always been so. And it must also be measurable.
Height, width and depth have always been a part of existance. Plus, they are quite easily measured. Therefore, it would be easy to call those "dimensions."
Time, by the term we know it today, has only been in existance since we started measuring it and breaking it up into comprehensive pieces. However, "time" other than what we know it as today, has always existed. If it were not for time, nothing could live, die, move or think.
I think that our means of measuring time is man-made, but time itself is not.
And since time is measureable, I would draw the conclusion that it is a dimension.
People couldn't measure height, width, and depth either before rulers were invented.

Bidirectional movement along a dimension is overrated. By the scale of the cosmos, we are irrevocably tied to our planet. The movements we make are insignificant compared to the distances crossed by Earth and the Solar System through the galaxy. We are, therefore, still bound toward moving in a specific direction, just like Time.
 

Stompwampa

Diabloii.Net Member
dondrei said:
How do you know the same isn't true of height, width and depth?

I knew someone was going to bring that up...i just didn't want to get into it.
Technically, nothing existed before we had a name and definition for it. I could say that trees have only existed since we gave them the name and defintion of "tree." But in reality, we all know that to be false. The same could be said of height, width or depth. We all know that those things have been around since the beginning of existance, but only since we've been able to define and measure them have they existed in our lives as tangible ideas. The same can be said about time.
This is very much edging closer to a debate about extistentialism...
 

bladesyz

Diabloii.Net Member
Stompwampa said:
I knew someone was going to bring that up...i just didn't want to get into it.
Technically, nothing existed before we had a name and definition for it. I could say that trees have only existed since we gave them the name and defintion of "tree." But in reality, we all know that to be false. The same could be said of height, width or depth. We all know that those things have been around since the beginning of existance, but only since we've been able to define and measure them have they existed in our lives as tangible ideas. The same can be said about time.
This is very much edging closer to a debate about extistentialism...
Let's look at it another way:

What's the purpose of dimensions? To be able to measure and qualify objects. Does time fulfill that purpose? Yes. In fact, sometimes knowing Time is more important than knowing any of the other 3 dimensions.

Suppose I need to get from home to work. Does it matter to me exactly how far the workplace is? No. It only matters to me how long it takes me to get there depending on my transportation of choice. The same distance is going to vary depending on whether I take the car or the bus, or if there's a traffic jam.

Thus, Time is as useful a dimension as the other three.
 
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