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Throwing Weapons?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Flux, Aug 7, 2010.

  1. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Throwing Weapons?

    Unless I'm completely blanking, we've not yet seen any throwing weapons yet in Diablo 3.

    Most fans assume we'll see them, since they were there in Diablo 2. Perhaps they are, like bows, being hidden until the reveal of the fifth character, who specializes in their use?

    That said, while I have virtually no doubt the 5th char will be an archer of some sort, I'm much less confident that she will make use of throwing weapons. After all, if you're a bow master, why would you waste time with the slower, less damaging, less accurate, less ranged throwing weapons?

    So, do you want to see throwing weapons in D3, just in the game amidst the other weapons, without any characters with special skills that use them? That seems like kind of a waste to me, not least since there's no weapon switch hotkey. That's what made throwing weapons especially useful in D2, especially in the early levels, when by far the most damage most chars can do is with any old stack of javelins they find in the Blood Moor.

    Or would you rather not include them when they'd be largely unused in classic D3; instead saving them for introduction in the expansion, along with a character who specializes in ranged weapons? (And perhaps along with a weapon switch hotkey; they have to add all sorts of features in the expansion(s).)

    I think I'd go with option 2, personally. Why put in an item that's not really going to be used? Save it until you can do it right, rather than just tossing in some pointless novelty, like throwing potions in D2.
     
  2. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    Lest not forget the limitations they planned to putt on the different weapons. If they implement it, it's probably just for two or three character. maybe the monk, witch doctor and the 5th character. Thus limiting the use even further.

    So eventhough in my ideal diablo 3, throwing weapon would be part of it, I don't think blizzards diablo 3 should include them. Just to much effort for what it brings. They can focus on better things and use their time more effective.

    Unless the 5th character can use both equally good, though I don't think it will. Combining bow and a throwing weapon/shield seems strange. Though maybe blizzard manages to surprise us all.
     
  3. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    Unlike bows and crossbows, throwing weapons can (theoretically) be used as melee weapons too. While not ideal for neither melee nor ranged, I can see them being used by melee/ranged hybrid builds, provided the fifth class has that sort of build options available. If throwing weapons are to be added, I definitely think hybridization should be their niche.

    Currently, the barbarian has pretty much a monopoly on most of the (melee) weapon types, so I expect the fifth class to specialize in the use of some of those weapons to break said monopoly up a bit. Then the class' arsenal would range from melee (e.g. swords), to melee/ranged hybrid (throwing weapons), to ranged (bows), leaving room for lots of variety in viable playstyles.

    But yeah, personally I barely ever used throwing weapons in D2 - or potions, for that matter - so unless they're made as viable as other weapon types, I wouldn't mind seeing them removed entirely. However, I don't think we should count them out just yet.
     
  4. MonsterOfTheLake

    MonsterOfTheLake Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    Maybe we'll finally get Tyrael's Worldstone-shattering (Throwing) Sword, eh?
     
  5. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    no point in throwing weapons imo unless the character specializes in them. like flux said why throw a sword when the bow is superior? i personally hope we have unlimited ammo, having to bring arrows and whatever is just a waste and pointless in a game like D3/2/1. not sure if this has already been spoken about maybe someone already knows the answer to that question.

    so yeah anyway i vote leave them out and maybe make a xpac character being a knife throwing bastard from the back streets on new orleans.....or something less modern maybe
     
  6. SneakyMilo

    SneakyMilo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    I think I'll be a little sad if thrown weapons are not included right away. I do agree with previous posters that if it is something that is tacked on, or just a silly novelty then yes we are better off without them.
     
  7. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    Unlimited arrow has been confirmed. For arrows anyway. As flux said, no word on throwing weapon though I see no point in making those finite and arrows infinite.



     
  8. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    agreed if arrows are unlimted then throwing weapons should be too, if they are included that is. thanks for reply nase
     
  9. Slevinn

    Slevinn Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    I think throwing weapons should be saved for expansion if no classic character can use them. You want to introduce them in a great atmosphere, not "Okay, here's a character that can kinda use those throwing weapons you guys have been vendoring this whole time"

    But I do kind of hope that at least in the future, they will have throwing weapons. If done right, they could be bad ***.
     
  10. GoldenBird

    GoldenBird Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    I don't really care about them or see the point to them in most cases. Why would you bother if using a bow or a sword will be better? Or, likewise, what would to point be of using the latter is a throwing weapon is better?

    The only thing fitting I can see is a tree of skills dedicated to throwing skills. My idea is that you can use it for both ranged and melee; the ranged skills would maybe do damage over time, and then when the enemy approaches, you can use melee with different skills or something. Eh, I don't know *shrug*.
     
  11. Iconic Demise

    Iconic Demise Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    Through the course of my D2 experience, I tried to use throwing weapons as much as possible. Throw barbs, LF zons, poison zons, dragoon, etc.: I really enjoyed the different flavour of thrown weapons. However, as stated above, they were a little-used feature. Consequently, I agree with Flux's second option.

    It would be nice to have thrown weapons that are available to a non-throwing specialist, and it would be a dream to have throwing weapons be relatively damaging in the hands of alternative throwers (D2 equivalents would be enchantresses and paladin auras). This being said, I imagine an expansion will do them justice!
     
  12. Risingred

    Risingred Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    I've never hidden the fact that I find throwing weapons to be lame and useless. Whenever gauging if I will like a weapon or not, I ask myself: "Can I see my character killing Diablo, the Lord of Terror, with this?"

    And if it is some tiny knife or a dart or something, the answer is no, no I cannot.
    The only time I used them was to kill blood raven with a barb in early D2C.

    The javelins were different, however. I could see throwing a spear at something and it doing some serious damage. Someone recently made a thread on bnet about characters who should use boomerangs and I was flabbergasted that there was another person who thought it was a cool idea, and that boomerangs are "badass". Really?

    Suggestions that I've found pretty bad:

    Throwing Knives
    Stars
    Bolos
    Slings
    Whips (different category)
    Throwing potions
    Darts
    Blow guns
    Boomerangs

    But that's just me.
     
  13. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    If you have shuriken, the char has to at least match. Blade Fury was surprisingly very strong; it could get as high if not higher than the javelins (physical. Javs thrump in elemental).



    Also, what about throwing axes?
     
  14. Risingred

    Risingred Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    I do agree about staying thematic. The shuriken fit the assassin but to justify the usage of a weapon simply by the damage a skill does in a game is, to me, silly.
    If I coded in a farting unicorn that did 10,000 damage a hit, I would not jump to the conclusion that farting unicorns were epic or did serious damage in real life.
    I feel the connection to real life has to be kind of strong in weapons. If you are playing a barbarian, it is like your will as a player is honed through the weapon (even though it is only pixels), and that is how you execute your will in-game. If you are a barbarian carrying a tiny little blowgun, that is not epic, and you lose that connection.



    I find them a bit silly.
    If it is big enough to be playable, to be interesting...why would you throw it? Why do you carry over 100 of them?
    In other games, notably third-person shooters, it makes sense to have a little throwing item like in, say, Assassin's Creed. They're also very limited.
    But in a game like Diablo I just find it bad.


     
  15. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    Yeah, mixing them makes it weird.

    But skill damage can be a good thing to base it on. For instance, a necro has wands as the spell option, but for melee skills he has daggers to chose from. They fit the char, but you use the ones with + skill or some slow / OW mod, not high damage anyway.


    With melee like barb and paladin, it's all about the weapon damage. Skill would just let you use it, so it gives the epic if the weapon's good.
     
  16. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    You could make the throwing weapon, in the words of an ill-fated D2 clone, a spell delivery system. Like Lightning Fury. Like a wizard who triggers her spells by tying them to the projectile. The character isn't a pure mage; they require the weapon (and get some physical damage from it also), and they're limited by how many weapons they have to throw. Plus, as was said earlier in the thread, throwing weapons can be used for melee also.

    The problem, as RisingRed argues against it, is due to Diablo's vast hordes of monsters. Throwing weapons are great in RL, or cinematic representations of it, where the number of enemies is finite. Having a special sneak ranged attack mixed in with your sword or mace or whatever is great on a small scale battle, in a shooter or duel type game. It just seems silly in D3, when you're dealing with 500 monsters in 3 minutes -- unless there's a mighty magical attack tied to the throwing weapon.

    Otherwise you get the, "where is he holding all of those?" question.
     
  17. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    And we do not ask this question when a carver drops a polearm? Or a barbarian caries 4 full plate armours? Or a bow character with unlimited arrows?

    I don't get it.



     
  18. Pyrohemia

    Pyrohemia Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    I think that throwing weapons make quite a bit of sense in the Diablo world. I disagree with the assertion that they are small and impotent. They can find small chinks in the armor of a foe that are unreachable by a traditional weapon and inflict comparable damage. There is no need to eviscerate every monster when you can merely slay them.

    I think that a form of retrieval would make throwing weapons much more practical in Diablo 3. When a monster dies it should drop each throwing weapon embedded in its hide alongside gold or other loot. When the thrower walks past these loose blades can be auto-picked up just like gold. The same can hold for weapons that miss their mark. Weapons that collide with an obstacle can fall to the ground and be picked up there. The same with weapons that run out of range. The only area where you would risk losing weapons would be throwing them out into open spaces with no floor. This could add some strategy where someone wielding throwing weapons would try and position themselves such that they are throwing against a wall that will collect stray throws. Uniques, previously bosses, would have to have some sort of dynamic reclamation ability as they are likely to outlast an entire stack of throwing weapons. Perhaps since they have such high life their skin is thicker and thrown weapons fall out and drop to the ground for recollection. Another possibility is that the thrower can approach and collect embedded weapons.

    With the ability to reclaim thrown weapons I think that the number of throwing weapons carried can drop. I think that this could address both the usability of throwing weapons and the question of 'where is he keeping so many weapons?'.

    Adding enchantments to thrown weapons is definitely something to increase crowd killing ability. The ability to conjure new throwing weapons is another possibility for variation.

    One silly idea I was thinking about was a gold-thrower. Since there is so much gold about a player could sharpen the edges and throw the coins at monsters. Monsters would then drop some of this gold when killed. Some of course would be lost in the corpse and unrecoverable. Wearing a special pair of leather gloves could enable this as wearing gauntlets would clearly make it almost impossible. Coins, even sharp coins, are unlikely to deal heavy damage but they would be nearly unlimited and could be thrown very rapidly or in bunches. Thrown with a spin they would be more likely to damage.
     
  19. Slevinn

    Slevinn Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    I fully agree. How can people argue so relentlessly that Diablo 3 is not realistic when a Barbarian can hold 200 throwing axes, yet we can respawn when we die, one character can carry 30 pieces of armor and swords, and, you know, we're traveling down into the pits of hell to kill some bad ***. It's a game, it's not supposed to be realistic, it's supposed to be fun.

    I do like the retrieval idea of throwing weapons though.


     
  20. Risingred

    Risingred Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Throwing Weapons?

    There is a difference between wilfull suspension of disbelief and something being just plain funny because it is ridiculous.
    I know, intellectually, that there are an infinite amount of arrows because of gameplay purposes. If I want to lore-nerd, I can say that the quiver is magical. You can justify anything you want, and you can rationalize to a nearly infinite basis.
    But that doesn't change aesthetics, which vary from individual to indvidual.

    But yes, I do ask that when a carver drops a polearm. And I laugh because it is funny. I also laugh when Duriel drops a town portal scroll and wonder, why didn't he use it? Because I sure used mine.

    This is a quantitative statement meant to imply that killing a 12-foot-tall horned demon who breathes fire and wears plate is the same as killing a human being in plate. You have a four inch throwing knife. Fine, you got it in-between the cracks in the armor. Grats?

    It's just a matter of taste. You cannot throw a blanket over the statement that "throwing weapons are useful in every single event you will come across in Diablo" without someone disagreeing with you, because just like you, I am speaking my opinion.


     

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