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Thrower barbs

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Spearthrower, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. Spearthrower

    Spearthrower IncGamers Member

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    Thrower barbs

    I am interested to know what people think now in 1.11 about the viability of throwing barbs.

    I have just about finished normal with my SC character (a druid WW) - my first time playing in 4 years and it went very smoothly with no deaths so far - late Act 5. He was played just to unlock Hardcore mode.

    So, now I am ready to play Hardcore ( well, once Hopper finishes the game). Added to that I fully intend to not twink at all (not that I have any items anymore). I will probably use the Red Rune Mod if I can figure out how to install it! ;)

    With all that said so you know where I stand, what would be people's thoughts on Spear throwing barbs now as opposed to 1.09? Not interested in Axes or Knives before anyone suggests it :)

    I used to have a level 93 or 94 spear throwing barb that started way back in D2C and finally finished Hell when LOD came out. I know pretty well how to play them but I am not sure how hard Hell is going to get? For the record, with all my characters after LOD I used to play /players 8 throughout the game.

    Thanks for any replies and ideas

    Spearthrower
    Thrower of spears
     
  2. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    I would say it was viable, but I wouldn't recommend playing throughout the game on p8. I would probably do normal and NM on 8 and Hell on 1, 3 at most.

    I think do skills something like:
    20 BO
    20 Double Throw
    20 Mastery (Spear or Throw - I don't know which one)
    10+ Warcry
    All 1 point wonders - Berserk, BC, Increased Speed, Find Item
    As many points in NR as you need
    A few points in Frenzy to get your attack speed up
    Some points in Double Swing for synergy

    I would also recommend using safety gloves for the KB, I think that would be invaluable.

    Good luck :grin:
     
  3. nebux

    nebux IncGamers Member

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    tip you are able to make a HC char in atma, to unlock HC and after dlete that and make one yourself. atma creted chars have the same map in normal, quite boring.
    i didn't see throw barb for a lot of time. we are all n00bs in that sense.
    Hrus have one, but in a modded version.
    i just think axes are better( more damage), but knives have more stack. you choose what you want.
    double throw will deplete you items in seconds, so expect to do alot of town repair runs
     
  4. Sint Nikolaas

    Sint Nikolaas IncGamers Member

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    You'll be hard pressed with a HC untwinked thrower. Normally the damage isn't great (it's about 1/3 of what the screen shows) and untwinked will be problematic because you want weapons with replenish mod (which can be shopped for but then they'll probably lack damage).

    He is quite safe though if you work with howl, taunt, grimward and warcry. Also, as suggested KB is nice, as is slow and stuff like flee. CB works but is cut because you're ranged. You do need is though.

    I suggest a bit different route with the skills.
    20 BO
    10 Warcry
    Various points in Nat Res, howl, grimward (1), increased speed.
    xx in throwing mastery / xx in double swing / xx in double throw.

    Normally you can go by with one point in double throw, but since you're untwinked you might want that extra AR. The extra damage from double swing is nice, but you might also want to put them in the mastery.
     
  5. Delreich

    Delreich IncGamers Member

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    Unless I'm completely mistaken, AR bonuses of ranged skills doesn't work,
    so more than one point in double throw would be a waste.
     
  6. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster IncGamers Member

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    I'm pretty sure the above is only true if you talk about zon.

    I have throw barb, from what I can tell, you need pretty good weapon to be able to kill at reasonable speed. Safety is not an issue with this build, howl taunt are god sent gift to any barb build. GW however is a complete waste. using howl/taunt properly, you will never find one situation makes you think "I wish I have GW". I have done it, and completely regrade the decision to try GW. I also suggest to max double throw, you need the AR, but only work it last (after all other core skills - double swing/BO etc).
     
  7. Spearthrower

    Spearthrower IncGamers Member

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    Milb.

    Thanks... I think I am good on the skills - I just dug up my old guide on it - I'm sure most of the info is still valuable..... Grim Ward Ping Pong reminds me of a lot of fun!! :D

    Nebux.

    Cheers - I did realise that I could make an ATMA placeholder to open HC but decided to do it the legit way - after a more than 4 year break, I needed a softer entry (ooer).

    Axes never used to do anywhere near as much damage as spears. I used to carry around cruel (298%) winged harpoons of evisceration.... they were horribly lethal even on players 8. Definitely spears ;)

    It really is about getting kills per spear ratio up - my old guide harped on about this a lot. Razortail belt was a great item for Throw Barbs for the pierce - that helped raise the amount of time in the field! Elemental damage charms did wonders too..... you'd be surprised how fast I used to go through Hell cows at players 8!!


    Sint Nikolaas.

    Yeah I am sure it isn't going to be easy untwinked.... but I always got a lot of pleasure from my throw barb and from variant challenges. Your skill suggestions match a lot of what was going on in my head.... really, I think I am fine on the skills selection.... I am more concerned about aspects of the game I am unfamiliar with having jumped 4 years from 1.09 to 1.11! For example - I wasn't sure if there were any synergies with Dbl Throw.... it always was just for AR and was only worth having more than a couple of points in if you wanted to PvP.... for this char I am estimating 4 - 6 points in it.


    Delreich

    Unless something has changed from 1.09 to 1.11.... then (EDIT:wrong skill typo before:) double throw only adds AR and it certainly used to work!


    Deathmaster.... I used to have a tactic called Grim Ward Ping Pong which involved 2 or 3 wards placed and bouncing monsters between them.... it was very amusing.... but ultimately not really needed you are right.... 1 point in it saves the day when needed. For AR I am pretty sure that my massive amount of DEX together with the right equipment will make maxing Dbl Throw redundant! As it's HC, I am not likely to ever be PvPing!! :wink2: That's the only reason I see the need for such extreme AR!


    Thanks for the comments guys - it's helping me to focus more clearly on what's needed.

    I'd still be interested in hearing from people with experience in 1.09 and 1.11 to try to estimate some of the problems I am likely to face along the way. In my guide, I wrote that Duriel was the only threat throughout the game.... does this still hold true?

    Also, I never used to use a Merc - the reason being that the mobs would crowd around the merc and stop them coming at me in a straight line and bear in mind that this character was started back in classic when Merc were useless. In 1.09 I toyed with a HF merc... but ultimately dropped him due to this annoying feature of him lowering my kill ratio...... however, this is untwinked HC, so I might change my mind here and take the HF - any other suggestions?

    Also, no one mentioned Leap Attack.... can you not still hold shift and spring off somewhere? This was a key skill in the strategy department of the thrower. Useful for redeploying to bring the monsters at you in a straight line and for killing Mephy and for emergency flee scenarios.

    I almost feel like chucking up my old throwers guide here and seeing which bits are no longer valid.... and maybe giving some people the inspiration to try one out! :)

    Cheers

    Spearthrower
     
  8. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster IncGamers Member

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    There are few things:

    1. throw mastery add both AR and damage, no doubt you will max it.
    2. untwinked, you will need the AR from skill, there is nothing "extreme". You will find your AR isn't what you planned, unless you have gears to boost up (again, very unlikely if you play untwinked).
    3. HC and low life + untwinked, you are making things little harder. I'd prefer as much Vit as possible.
    4. KB is not only life saver, but deadly with any ranged attack, go for it.

    Have fun.:thumbsup:

    Edit: I don't remember what GW looks like in 1.09, but in 1.10/1.11, it is next to useless IMO. When you need it to save the day, you are likely to facing skelly/undead (eg. those revive mummy thingy) - then guess what, GW doesn't work on them (you cannot GW from most undead).
     
  9. nebux

    nebux IncGamers Member

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    duriel is easy now. only problem that you'll get with are is if you are at very low level.
    duriel in 1.10 1.11 is no longer cold imune ( he still has 95 Cold rez in hell)
    no more charge attack of death that in 1.09 killed my sorc many many times.he still has holy freeze aura
    shift click attack is still i use today. ask every hammedin. also leap and leap attack get a knockback effect on monsters and players withincresed redius at highter levels
    mercs are good. try an act 1 merc as she is ranged like you
     
  10. Spearthrower

    Spearthrower IncGamers Member

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    The build I am thinking of is as follows.


    Stats

    Strength - 130ish. This gets you into good armour although it's mostly not needed, i like to look buff ;)..... and also lets you use Balrog Spears if you find a nice one.

    Dexterity - 300 or so. This is for max damage increase and resolves all AR issues.

    Energy - base. Tough at first but by the end game throwing takes nothing noticable away.

    Vitality - whatever else although I expect to drop more points in this early to give Battle Orders something to work with and just to help out generally in the earlier weaker stages.


    Skills

    Throwing Mastery 20

    Double Throw - this I will just watch my AR and if I see a need for more, I will drop a point in..... probably between 4 - 6.... if I am unlucky maybe 8.

    Battle Orders 20


    That's all that's really needed - that's one of the reasons I loved this build!! :)

    Utility stuff

    Leap Attack - 1 point for strategic play

    Frenzy - I never used to use this but I can see the need for some IAS without twinking.... probably about 6 points here.

    Inc Speed - Minimum of 4.... but maybe more again depending on equipment.

    Berserk - Depends on what equipment I find.... if I get a lot of decent elemental charms, I might not need this.... failing that, a few points in here will deal with PI's otherwise I might just avoid the Stone Skin, PI's! ;)

    Natural Resists - probably 5 or 6 here as resists will matter without great equipment.

    Taunt - 1 point - very useful

    Grim Ward - 1 point at the start as an emergency button if I get completely surrounded (would have to be half asleep for that to happen)


    If that's all I use and I beat the game then I will put the rest into Find Magic Item to try to help him get equipment and see how far he can live! :)



    I am still worried about Hell difficulty as its not something I have any experience of in 1.11. Then again... have they introduced any Elite Uniques worthy of a thrower?

    Can anyone guess what I am going to call him?? :scratch:
     
  11. Spearthrower

    Spearthrower IncGamers Member

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    1) DOH!! Sorry, I meant Double Throw not Throw Mastery!! I will change that!
    2) It's a focus of my equipment.
    3) I intend to use the noble art of Fleeing.
    4) Agreed - and %flee
     
  12. Dark Matter

    Dark Matter IncGamers Member

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    Queequeg - an infamous thrower of spears.
     
  13. Spearthrower

    Spearthrower IncGamers Member

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    *shudders*

    Yeah a HF aura and that little space was DOOOOOM for a thrower!! :D

    As for Act 1 merc - it might not be a bad idea to make one with a strong elemental attack to deal with PI's! I still hate their AI! ;)
     
  14. Hp_Sauce

    Hp_Sauce IncGamers Member

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    Man, I've wanted to make a throw barb for SOOO long. This thread has inspired me to actually go ahead and do it. Thank you!

    I might not limit myself to spears right away, I'm going to look around and see what kind of damage Axes and Knives can do first. He will be HC of course, and mostly untwinked although I have a few crappy early game barb things kicking around.

    Probably I will use a Prayer merc, as thats just what I've been doing lately.

    -hps
     
  15. Spearthrower

    Spearthrower IncGamers Member

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    I'll PM you my old 1.09 guide - it's SP focus so it doesnt talk about gear.... some of the info might not be current, but reading through it again brought back the memories and reminded me of the strategies.! :)
     
  16. Hp_Sauce

    Hp_Sauce IncGamers Member

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    Nice, thank you very much! I look forward to reading it.

    -hps
     
  17. atigdng

    atigdng IncGamers Member

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    I have a thrower in hell, though I tend to go with winged knives or axes for the speed+ammo, I do enjoy my throwbarb. One of if not the most fun build to play in d2.

    It is viable through nightmare atleast untwinked. I am sure with dedication you can tackle hell too.

    I don't like using knockback or flee. And I don't run either... If you start a fight end it. No need to be a coward.

    Also on spears they are too slow and not enough ammo imo. You like to kill things off screen but i don't like killing things I can't face and see myself.

    imho that is.
     
  18. Spearthrower

    Spearthrower IncGamers Member

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    Shhhhhh it's not running.... it's tactical redeployment!! :D

    Hardcore doesnt have the luxury of Fights-To-The-Death! ;)

    The ammo element is the only problem with spears.... unless they have changed something they do far more damage than axes or knives with far less waste. One of the interesting elements was getting the kills per spear ratio up - this is done by deploying yourself to make monsters walk in a line towards you.

    Back in D2C.... once your spears ran out they were destroyed.... I got to level 80ish before LoD ;) I have a lot of patience with this character.... I just hope I can find Razortail somewhere.
     
  19. NeckRomancer

    NeckRomancer IncGamers Member

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    Spearthrower,

    On a related note, what charms would you advise for a thrower? specifically a 1.10 double-thrower...

    1) Fanatic GCs (boosts throw mastery, increases AR and damage)
    2) sharp GCs and SCs (boosts AR and max damage)
    3) elemental (lightning) SCs - boosts elemental damage and helps deal with PIs

    Thanks.
     
  20. Spearthrower

    Spearthrower IncGamers Member

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    I've never played 1.10 NeckRockmancer..... so bear that in mind....

    I used to (1.09) get as many small charms of elemental damage as possible because I hated swapping out my cruel/evisc for lightening/fire damage spears. Even then, depending on the other mods on the mob, you would still often have to. One source of cold damage is vital too.

    Definitely go for sharp charms.... raw damage is the most important factor for me... I always used to harp on about kill per spear ratio and I think it is the most important by far. Having another additional AR source really makes it unnecessary to max Dbl Throw, thereby allowing you more utility skills.

    Charms with +skills are ok, but not especially necessary - I'd prefer to look for other mods as a rule.


    I am probably going to start my thrower at the beginning of October - too many games being played at the moment to get into him.... but I am starting to look forward to it :)
     

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