Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

throwbarb(yes i said throwbarb) help

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Pyromancer88, Feb 20, 2004.

  1. Pyromancer88

    Pyromancer88 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    throwbarb(yes i said throwbarb) help

    i need to know what kind of stuff i should aim for on a single player throwbarb build. my skills ar prolly gonna be:
    double throw 20
    double swing 20
    throw mastery 20
    bo 20
    and i dunno about the othe skill pts
     
  2. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    98
    i am also building one, in hardcore ladder. i will give you all the details.

    first of all, the way damage is calculated means high str + dex is very important. you will need to get as much of it as possible. therefore, i limmit myself to 100 vitality. if you play softcore and / or you have lots of vita charms, you could go less than 100.
    other than that, the damage formula makes that everything you can do to enhance your damage (WT, ed jewels, ed charms) works much better for a thrower than any other barb. so while it was a good idea to get as much of this as possible already, it is even better for this thrower (this is to explain WT over goreriders)
    skill points are good, but less important for the thrower, they do little to enhance the damage (it doesnt work on synergies) so they are mainly just good for the warcrys.

    the philosophy of the thrower is to stay away from enemies and not get hit. in order to do this, you can use howl and grim ward (say 10 points in each) a few increase speed are also nice. Besides that, it is the goal to do really insane damage and kill the guys before they could harm you, therefore, dont waste on vitality, go for that damage, get your dex.

    the stats:

    vitality 100
    str whats needed for equip
    dex the rest

    the equipment.

    for rings, raven frost is kinda a must for every character IMO. so thats 1 ring.
    whisp projector i would add for without it you will be killed by black souls before you ever reach hell baal.
    for the amulet go highlords wrath. deadly strike and IAS, simply the best.

    the resistances you would ideally get from a chains of honor armor. i myself use hel lum fal as a cheap version until i can afford a chains. the highlords will bring your lightning resistance close to max. charms should max fire resist (and the last few points of lightning) cold and poison dont need to be maxed.

    the boots as said, wartravelers for the damage enhancement

    the gloves, steelrend for the ED.

    the belt, verdungos, to help you get a little more life after all, and pdr i also like for survivability. if you want to stay more true to the philosophy of not getting hit and maxing your damage output (and you play softcore most likely) you could change this for a thundergods so you 20 str and dex and a free ring slot (as you dont need the whisp projector anymore). i have not thought about what other ring to use then (str and dex are always good of course)

    the helm, as long as you are using hel lum fal, you will need to get resists from you helm since it gives less resists than chains of honor. arreats would be a fine choise as it is for every barb.
    If you do have chains of honor, you can use another helm since the resists are now not needed and the skill points on arreats are as said good but not terribly important. I have been thinking about guillaimes face to bring your deadly strike to a nice 95% (with 30 from highlords and 50 from warshrikes)
    There might be other helms though that enhance your damage better.

    The weapons: dual warshrike. 50% deadly strike and their high speed makes these the best weapons for the thrower. together with highlords (and guillaimes maybe) the deadly strike will be enough to say you simply do twice the damage displayed in the character screen :)

    the skill points you mentioned are good indeed. the order i prefer to get them are: all prerequets as they are possible to get.
    a few in double swing from the moment it is available, this is a good attack for the early levels while you dont have good throwing weapons. Put some points in it to make it mana free. (using deaths belt, gloves and 2 swords and completing it with sigons armor, helm and boots will get you trough normal with extreme ease)

    After those few points in double throw, i spent my points on throw mastery.
    when battle orders is available, i start spending on that and max it as soon as possible. make sure you have some points for battle command and natural resist at lvl 30 without interupting your BO.

    after bo is maxed:
    you max throw mastery first, then double swing, then double throw, in that order. somewhere in between, you put some points into the utility skills, grimward, howl and increase speed. I am not far enough with my thrower yet to say when you should this and how many in each you should have.
     
  3. Pyromancer88

    Pyromancer88 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    well this does sound quite useful but i think you might have missed the part where i said im single player cause my cd key is screwed up. now if u got a spare cd key please by all means lemme have it. o well thx neway if i get it fixed ill have 2 keep this in mind
     
  4. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    98
    well, IMO the idea of a thrower is to get the highest possible damage you can get by using a lot of dex.

    his equipment, you should balance between some protection of your fragile body and even more enhancement of your damage.
    for protecting yourself, i would not enter hell act5 without at least some lightning absorb and and max fire and lighthing resists. physical damage reduction is a bonus but not so necisary as he is not supposed to be hit (but you cant keep him from being hit by black souls)

    for damage enhancement from your equipment, i will explain you the value of the options:

    wartravelers: these are insane, the average damage of throwers is around 100 - 135 for the elite uniques, adding 20 to this is obviously a lot.

    enhance damage % (like steelrend and jewels) this is added to the ed from your skills (which are about 300% total). so the multiplier is already 4, 6 with a might merc. means you devide the % on the equipment with 4 or 6 to get the value for the enhancement on your total damage. steel rend (30-60% ed) will enhance your damage (without might) with 7.5 - 15% for example)

    strength or dex are also good to enhance your damage. vitality i also calculate the same since vita from items can be transfered to damage by putting less points in vita and more in dex (or vice versa dependind you want life or dmg) its just the value of a non energy stat point.
    i expect you to have a total str + dex of say 450. this makes a multiplier of (450 * 0.75 + 1) 4.37 every 100 stat points will add 0.75 to the multiplier. since you already have 4.37, those 100 stat points will add about 17% to the total damage.

    deadly strike: you already have critical strike from your mastery. critical and deadly strike dont add together, so you are just filling the gap of 79% (take 80 for ease) this means, deadly strike is only 4/5 effective for your end damage. 50% deadly strike will enhance your damage by 40%.

    so those (stat points, ed and deadly) are the things to look out for for enhancing your damage. thier values can be compared by dividing stat points by 6. devide ed by 4 or 6 (depending might merc of not) devide ds by 5/4.
    You cannot make any concessions to max resist (fire and lightning) and lightning absorb (only in those places where there are black souls).


    edit: oh one final thing to note: if you you have lots of one of those enhancers, its relative value decreases. this is most likely to become significant with deadly strike. if you have 80% already, another 10% is not gonna enhance your damage by 8%, it will be like 5% or so. for stat points this is the same, but you are not likely to get more than 100 or so stats from your equipment, so that wont be significant. same for ed%
     
  5. Pyromancer88

    Pyromancer88 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    hmmm sounds like a good idea there(if a bit confusing at first) but again i need some access to some higher end equip prolly and im only 1p till i get new cd key or maybe im just underestimating mf in 1.10 things have prolly changed alot or maybe im just stupid :flip:
     
  6. Babe Bridou

    Babe Bridou IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1

    I like how I fare with goreriders, razortail, laying of hands or gravepalms. life leech and mana leech, at least 3-5% of each are very important.

    [edited because I widely misread wacken's post, sorry for that ]
     
  7. Pyromancer88

    Pyromancer88 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    so 2 important things to go for are razortail for piercing and crushing blow for damage?
     
  8. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    98
    razortail is ok if you cant have thundergods or verdungos.
    the stats on those surpass razortail by far IMO. piercing is nice, but i dont think it is that important. When using howl and grimward, the monsters are not in groups anymore and you have little chance of hitting another monster with the piercing.

    crushing blow would be very good if you play in games with many players. I made my thrower however with the goal of soloing trough hell for fun and chalenge (HCL). Therefore, i did not look for crushing blow. also do i expect one hit kills with 4k+ damage and max deadly strike.
     
  9. Pyromancer88

    Pyromancer88 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    hmm well then i guess that can be done to anyways good news here... i just downloaded a program that allows me to move my items around on my 1p chars so that should help me alot for these mf things
     
  10. Lim_Dul

    Lim_Dul IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2003
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I also second Razortail.

    Razortail adds dex/damage/33% pierce. The dex is helpfull in adding AR and more damage.

    However, I only recommend you use razortail if you're using Javs/Harpoons etc. The range on Javs/Harpoons is what makes the pierce effective. If you're using knives/axes I'd go with one of the other belts mentioned.

    I use Knockback and Fear on my gear. This means I use harpoons exclusively, as I need the range.
     
  11. Pyromancer88

    Pyromancer88 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    well i have just come to realize something... i need ed right.. well then biggins bonnet(unique cap) has 30% ed on it would it be viable for a while upgraded?
     
  12. memememe173

    memememe173 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Razortail IS THE BELT FOR A THROWER

    and crushing blow is greatly reduced on ranged weapons go with Open wounds
     
  13. sacmb8

    sacmb8 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    its a fun build to play but very difficult once you reach hell

    how have you handled the ancients? or other tough bosses? i tried cacheing a whole pile of javs before the tough fight to beat in NM but i think hell ancients are going to be impossible for a thrower - especially if you play solo PvM untwinked...
     
  14. lilstavy

    lilstavy IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    hey i was wondering.. which of the following would be best for a pvp barb....lacerators or a dif weapons, draculs or steelrends, gore riders or war travellers, and most importantly, chains of honor or leviathan... also wondering which charms i should use, thx!!
     
  15. lilstavy

    lilstavy IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    ahh oops meant pvp throw barb
     
  16. boochie61

    boochie61 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2003
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Leviathan is out of the question. Look at the strength require. 174 is not makable without strength charms if you're going to be a thrower. I took my thrower to 159 strength at ** (with gear help of course). 174 is just too high a number for a build that gets more damage (and ar) from dex. Chains of honor you can put in any number of low strength elite armors and get better results. Warshrikes (especially the ethereal kind) may be the best choice pvp with its deadly strike % and -50 ias (base -20 and -30 for the item itself). Lacerator also would be good pvp, although a little slower (base -10 and -30 for the item) Not too much good pvm, but just the ticket with the amp damage although I think the warshrikes are better pvp and pvm.
    For pvp you had better get a good blocking shield (with the ammount of dex a thrower needs, any 70+% blocking shield would be good)and echoing weapon, so while you are being attacked you can block, and while you are setting up you can boost your bo, then swich back to attack weapons when you are in the clear to double throw. I think the best set up would be the enigma armor for pvp, but if you don't want to spend all day teleing, then chains of honor seem to be a good choice. Dex/vita charms would be my choice, but you could get a decent setup with max/vita or skill/vita charms.
     
  17. lilstavy

    lilstavy IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    hey thanks sooo much for the info, quick question though, i was planning on socketing levi with 35ed/-15 req jewel so the str might not be a huge problem. as for the shield, though, do you have any in mind??
     
  18. boochie61

    boochie61 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2003
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The problem youre going to run into is the ias factor. Any thrower below -99 total isn't going to kill much, and if you make a machine gunner, your probably going to die before you charge frenzy up. I still think that a better armor is out there for you, maybe of the four socket ed/ias variety or stone for a dueler. Stone gives you huge defense, and fast recovery, both critical for a dueler with leech being nerfed in 1.10. The 300 def against ranged is nice as well since you will be fighting a lot of throw barbs and zons. Save your strength. Get a stone in a wyrmhyde or some other low strength armor, and pump the dex and vitality instead of strength. Remember I only have 135 strength in my pvm build (with gear 159), you need to be under that to save points for a dueler. I would go with mosers myself with almost no strength req and good resists. At 60% block and 30% fast block its hard to argue with it as a blocking weapon for a switch with a thrower. you want more block, eld it (+7%) or shael it for even faster block. BTW it is possible to throw single handed for duels only, although you do lose the double swing synergy. Your choice.
     
  19. lilstavy

    lilstavy IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    alright awesome thanks for the info... one more thing, though, what do you think about skill charms? worth it or just dex/vita??
     
  20. memememe173

    memememe173 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2003
    Messages:
    9,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    im gonna say they are not worth it at all as it only adds small amounts if damage/ar when you could use the x/xx/xx scs
     

Share This Page