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ThrowBarb Axe questions

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Xiamet, Jan 30, 2004.

  1. Xiamet

    Xiamet IncGamers Member

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    ThrowBarb Axe questions

    Hi all...

    Well..since my WW Sword Barb seems to be useless now in 1.10, and the board crash has downed all the guides, I'm in need of some guidance concerning a new barb char I may make.

    First, what are the new builds for barbs in 1.10? A brief descrip for skill/stat will suffice til they repost the guides.

    Second, I'm curious about possibly making a Throwbarb, one that uses the two elite axes Lacerator and Glimmershred. I have one, will look for the other if such a build is viable in hell. Anyone have any ideas for a Throwbarb for v1.10? What stats/skills are best? What Mastery should I max (are masteries still worth it in v1.10?) How viable are Throwbarbs, or should I maybe go Frenzy instead?

    Also, can barbs dual wield 2 handed Axes like they can with 2 handed swords?

    I know I know...alot of questions...but I'd appreciate any and all input concerning this post...

    much obliged,

    -X
     
  2. santino

    santino IncGamers Member

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    i just made a throwbarb (lvl 74), here's a list of gear/stats/skills.

    gear:
    helm: arreats
    armor: shaft
    ammy: cat's eye (highlords is a better choice but i'm too lazy to look for one)
    weapons: dual gimmers
    gloves: soul drainers
    belt: nosferatu's coil
    boots: gore riders
    rings: rare life leech rings with stats/resists

    skills:
    throw mastery: max
    double swing: max (for the dmg)
    double throw: 1 (you could pump it up for more AR, it's pure preference)
    battle orders: max
    natural resists: 5
    inc. speed: 1
    berserk: 1
    frenzy: 1
    grim ward: 1
    rest: pre reqs
    unused: 1

    stats:
    str: enough to hold your gear
    dex: rest
    vitality: enough to take a hit with BO (i have 75 base vitality, ** after annil)
    energy: base

    notes:
    the idea of a throwbarb is to kill all enemies from reaching you. of course this is impossible when being swarmed which is why the throwbarb's tactic is to kill one, cast grim ward and pick them off one by one. frenzy is nice because it boosts your attack speed and run/walk speed which is useful when you're trying to run away from a pack of unique mana burn guys. i do about 1.4 to 5.3k dmg with each throw using double throw. that comes out to about 2.8 to 10.6k dmg an attack. this includes the elemental dmg from the gimmers. even though this may seem like it's a lot, a throwbarb is not a good crowd control character since his attacks are focused on one enemy at a time.

    bottom line: throwbarbs aren't very fast at killing but are fun for a while. i lost interest in mine which is why he's still such a low level.
     
  3. Dark Tyrant

    Dark Tyrant IncGamers Member

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    There's the Concentrator that has high defense and an uninterruptiable attack that does decent damage.

    I think a Berserker is good, high MAGIC damage. But your def goes down for like 1.3 seconds after swinging. Probably isn't good when swarmed so go with Concentrator.
     
  4. Xiamet

    Xiamet IncGamers Member

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    Santino - Thanks for the info...I was considering the crowd control thing, and I figured equiping a Razortail belt might help in that it adds 30+% Pierce. I haven't tested this yet, but I assume all thrown weapons, including axes can pierce, no? if so, this would help with crowd control somewhat.

    You prefer Double Swing over frenzy? Why's that? I figured Frenzy would be better..though I hear Double Swing attacks more than 1 target and Frenzy doesn't. Is this true?

    DT - I read the Concentrater build...I don't much like the idea of a build that only attacks 1 enemy at a time...makes for sloooowww leveling, unless you play multiplayer, which more often than not, I don't. Thanks for the suggestion though...

    -X
     
  5. juhnny

    juhnny IncGamers Member

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    I have to agree with the part about losing interest. I have a lvl 35 throw barb and I am already starting to lose interest. Could be that im trying to lvl my lvl 25 might merc and it just takes for ever. Another thing that I am not liking about throw barbs is that you really run out of your wpns fast with double throw. I am going to play him a lil more - I really want to try out my eth demon arch's I found. Hopefully I wont' lose all interest before then.
     
  6. santino

    santino IncGamers Member

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    frenzy is the skill that attacks multiple adjacent targets. the only reason you max doulbe swing is to get the damage increase on double throw. and yes, as far as i know, the pierce on razortail applies to all projectile attacks. the reason why i chose nosferatu's coil over razortail was for the leech and the ias. the 10% slow on it doesn't hurt either. ;)
     
  7. lil_julia

    lil_julia IncGamers Member

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    Lvl 25 might merc... FYI, they can be around lvl 45-46 if you hire them when your character is that lvl or above.

    Talk about wasted time...
     
  8. Xiamet

    Xiamet IncGamers Member

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    I figure my Throw barb would take advantage of Double Swing so he's not limited to just throwing all the time, and yet still get a synergy bonus for the Throwing skill, and...have an alternative while the stacks refill themselves. I've always preferred chars who have some form of ranged attack and melee if at all possible. Figure a Might merc or Holy Freeze to slow down enemies while my Throwbarb thins out the crowd, before jumping into the fray with Double Swing or Frenzy.

    With a chance to Pierce, crowd control is better still, and both Lacerator and Glimmershred have awesome mods that compliment each other very well. Elemental damage is covered, as well as PMH, Open Wounds, Amp Damage. Even if I just melee...both axes do nice damage and would be able to take on most any elemental or physical immune in the game. Figure CB with other gear, maybe Deadly Strike from Highlord's...

    Hmmm....I need to flesh out this build a bit and test it...

    Now if I can just get my hands on a Glimmershred...lol.

    -X
     
  9. santino

    santino IncGamers Member

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    first and foremost: it's G-I-M-M-E-R-S-H-R-E-D

    now that that's taken care of, if you want a melee skill to use while your stacks refill (gimmers don't self repair btw), you'll want to go with frenzy. you should never use double swing, it's just there for the synergy. it's like a sorceress' fire bolt, you only max it for the synergy; you never use it.
     
  10. Xiamet

    Xiamet IncGamers Member

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    Gimmershred, Glimmershred...W-H-A-T-E-V-E-R.

    You know what I meant.

    I had the same insight about Frenzy just before I read your post...seems a waste to maxe a synergy that you won't get much use of past slvl 24 (i.e Double Swing), but Frenzy's synergies are pretty much low usage in and of themselves, with the possible exception of Berzerk, which adds a ton of Magic Damage and is a great skill all by itself. Don't know if it's neccesary to max Zerk though, since with G-I-M-M-E-R-S-H-R-E-D, you have all the damage you need vs PI's and most any immunes, and without dropping the defense.

    I planned out my Throwbarb...gonna do some extensive testing on it in SP and see how it goes before I 'go live' with it on the realms.

    I'll post my results if they're any good. :)

    -X
     
  11. santino

    santino IncGamers Member

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    you don't max zerk with a throw barb, one point will do fine. trust me, if you want to play a throwbarb, you should max double swing. like i pointed out before, on a pure fire sorc, you max fire bolt for the synergy, not because you'll use it. same thing on a throwbarb, you max double swing for the double throw synergy. frenzy will be your main melee skill. zerk is a nice skill if you decide not to use gimmershreds and need something to take down those PIs.

    oh, and btw, i pointed out the spelling on gimmershreds because i've seen so many people misspell it (i.e. glimmer, grimmer, gimer, glimer, grimer) that it got annoying. nothing personal.
     
  12. Xiamet

    Xiamet IncGamers Member

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    It's an easy word to mispell..most people glance at it and assume it's Glimmer, instead of Gimmer..which I've never heard of. Must be a Barb thing...lol.

    I know maxing Double Swing is neccesary to both frenzy and Throw...just a shame you can't get 3 viable skills for the points. In this case, I liken it to maxing a Mastery.

    Speaking of which, my build won't include a Maxed mastery, (only 1 point in maybe 2 Masteries, with +skill gear) since I think the points are better spent elsewhere and more effective in pumping, for example, Shout, since any melee build will benefit from a higher def...especially a dual wielder like a ThrowBarb.

    Testing will begin soon as I collect all the gear...hard to do in SP when you're on a mac, since I don't have all those drop mods available to me. Waaah!

    -X
     
  13. santino

    santino IncGamers Member

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    alright, good luck, but try a test char with the skills i listed above and see how it stacks compared to your builds.
     
  14. dmg1

    dmg1 IncGamers Member

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    Throw barb at lvl 85 on ladder now.

    I've toyed with all the throwing weapons(knives//axes). I've found that while gimmers are nice(only if they have a high ED) they are not my personal favorite. Even with 30% IAS they are still slow because they have a low base speed so your total damage output suffers. I have lacerator/rare axes on one hand and warshrikes on the other. Warshrikes are my favorite. They just kik arse. The rest goes like this:

    6% Arreats
    Highlords
    Duriels
    Razortail
    Dual Ravenfrosts(High AR//High Dex)
    Set Bramble Mitts
    Goreriders
    Losta max dmg//AR and life charms

    My guy is nicely suited but not godly. I have alotta dex. I do anywhere from 5k-10k with my mercs aura depending on the weapon. What I've found is that damage is what this build lacks. So, Xiamet, I'd highly recommend maxing your damage in anyway possible. That means maxing double swing for the synergy. It's a must.
     
  15. boochie61

    boochie61 IncGamers Member

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    The build you have should rock. I have an ** ladder throw barb and he does almost 6 k with a holy freeze merc with quite studly gear himself. I would never have chosen a might merc for a throw barb. Your biggest ally is your speed and distance. Might merc, while creating nice damage figures, does not allow you to create space. You may want to rethink and get a holy freeze instead. Very rarely does any baddies get near me. My kill rate is fine. What is your IAS. You need to be at the -100-140 mark for this build. I find the Arreats life leech and stats nice, but what you need is speed. I use IK helm for the two sockets and a crows caw for the preset 15%ias which you naturally will socket with an ias jewel. You have to get both leech and IAS on those gloves, so some rares might do the trick. Once you get to those later break points your kill rate is great. I rush people in hell and rarely die with my two sets of gimmers and one set of demon arches.
    The razortail is crutial to this build. Without it crowd control is difficult. It's the single most important item on my barb.
    Also, if you have gimmers or some other high elemental damage throw weapon, berserk is a complete waste. Gimmers by themself will take out IP, I do it all the time with no berserk.
    I know the sexy dual melee/ranged combination sounds cool, but this build is not built to fight close. It just isn't. You have to pile on the dex points, and compromise big time in the vitality. A good throw barb will have only between 2 and 3 k life. That's it. If you have more than that (a) you're using echoers which does not work with this build (you need 2 sets of weapons minimum) and (b) you put too much in vitality. The goal is speed and not getting hit. I've built the frenzy thrower before and it's sort of fun, but with low defense and life it's sort of suicidal to do so.
    One thing no one mentions is the elemental resist. Gloams and such hit you from distance, so I always carry a lot of resist charms (hopefully with vita tags to get life boost) and keep my resists as close to 75% as I can get. Right now I have 75/73/54/72 resists so I am pretty safe from the monsters that attack you from afar.
    Maybe it's just me, but I don't have much of a problem with dclone with this build, and have helped kill him at least 30 times now, and delivered the kill shot on 10 or so of those. I believe it's because I maxed double throw and regularly make 9k attack rating and 10-12k when a hammerdin is near.
    My point is don't give up on the build, but rethink it. You can't build a throw barb like other barbs, it just won't work. It's a separate breed so to speak. It's a blast killing quickly, safe across the screen while your party's health bars all go up and down.
     
  16. Xiamet

    Xiamet IncGamers Member

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    I still maintain that maxing a Mastery in this case is potentially a waste of skill points, especially when you have skills like Shout, Ironskin and Resists that can add more to this Barb's effectiveness than another +120% ED. ED can be gotten from
    weapons, synergy (never said not to max Double Throw...just said it's a shame you don't more use out of this skill other than as a synergy) and from STR. CS? Highlord's give you more with DS.

    My current Throwbarb setup is as follows:

    Skills:
    Double Throw - 1
    Double Swing - 20
    Frenzy - 20
    BO - 20
    Shout - 10
    Natural resist - 5
    Throw Mastery - 1
    Sword/Axe Mastery - 1 (optional...sword tend to have better mods/damage than 1 handed axes)

    Masteries give about a third of the total bonus for 1 measely point. 19 more gives you maybe 2/3's more) Points IMHO better spent elsewhere.

    The rest in pre-req's and skills like Leap Attack, Grim ward etc.

    At level 80 this build is more or less complete. Gearwise, I went with the following:

    Arreat's (of course)
    IK Armor
    IK Gloves
    IK Boots
    Razotail (I said it before...absolutely vital to this build)
    Ravenfrost
    Bult kathos Ring
    Highlor's Wrath

    On a Switch I vary between Swords and Axes...I find swords (especially 2 handed) to have the best mods/damage over 1 handed axes. Plus you can dual wield 2 handed swords for a truly awesome Frenzy.

    A word about Meleeing with this build. Frenzy is a melee skill that utilizes dual wielding, and attacks up to 2 enemies if possible. The fact that you're already dual wielding weapons like Lacerator and Gimmershred, and that Frenzy uses the same synergy as Double Throw, why not? You will eventually run out of things to throw if throwing is all you do. And Gimmer doesn't replenish. Meleeing with frenzy is a great way to inflict damage and give you time to regenerate your Weapons.

    I so far like to switch weapons and Frenzy with a pair of swords, as I find them a little more effective. You could go with Conc or WW (no synergies needed) for a melee skill instead...but since you already have a synergy that Frenzy uses, I chose Frenzy.

    Anyways...I realise IK gear is a bit out of reach for most of us...Duriel's or Lionheart's are good choices..G Bane's are nice once you hit clvl 85. CoH runeword would be even better if you can make it.

    Anyways..I ramble on...

    -X
     

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