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Thoughts on game balance for Rabies

Discussion in 'Druid' started by Lord Nyax, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. Lord Nyax

    Lord Nyax Banned

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    Thoughts on game balance for Rabies

    Okay, just to be sure everyone is on the same page here, I'll go over a bit about the Druid skill rabies:

    Rabies has a set time limit, determined by the skill level. After that time limit is up, all Rabies damage ends. Rabies is supposed to "infect" monsters, thereby re-applying the poison to them. However, the intuitive way this should work does not apply. If, for instance, you have a 15 second long Rabies skill, and you infect Monster 1, he will turn green and the Rabies timer will start. Let's say at 10 seconds in, he walks by Monster 2, and infects him. Monster 2 will only be affected for (15-10) = 5 seconds, instead of the full 15.

    This leads into my question:
    Would it unbalance the game to make it so that each time a monster were infected by rabies the rabies timer for them were reapplied, so that if you had a group of monsters, they could continuously re-infect each other for a combined rabies duration of extreme length?

    P.S: I know my explanation wasn't great. If you don't understand, ask. I've been wondering about this for a long time...so I want some answers/thoughts.
     
  2. Voice

    Voice IncGamers Member

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    if your taking like 60 seconds to kill a monster ... something is wrong. I mean do you want to bite like 8 times and run around while they run after you and wait for them to die? If your out of radius of the screen your screwed for exp.

    If talking pvp ... I would think this wouldnt be that big of an issue ... i r confused.:flip:
     
  3. superjayson

    superjayson IncGamers Member

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    If the timer was reapplied he would infect the original monster again with a new timer. aka there would be no point in having a timer on the skill.
     
  4. Lord Nyax

    Lord Nyax Banned

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    Voice: First off, what is that weird font...
    second off: my real thing is, usually the first monster I bite dies. It's just that in places like the Cold Plains in A1 hell, sometimes I'll bite a monster, all the monsters around it will get infected, but they'll return to normal before they die, even the ones that were infected like, 5 seconds ago. My real question was, what if, no matter what, after you got Infected by another monster you stayed infected for the full duration of the skill, i.e. the 15 seconds in my example above. In PvP, prolly wouldn't be that big a deal. Generally in PvP, if you can infect someone, they're gonna die...re-applying the Rabies wouldn't be that big a deal. It's more for PvM that I was asking, because Rabies is hard to use for PvM.

    Jayson: the Timer would basically be a time limit for:
    a) A single monster to die
    b) A monster to infect another monster

    It'd still be useful, it'd just be...less meaningful.

    The thing is, right now Rabies is, to say the least, hard to use for PvM. Pretty good for PvP, just not so much for PvM. If, for any given group, one bite would keep them infected until there was only 1 left, would it unbalance Rabies?
     
  5. Von Lazuli

    Von Lazuli IncGamers Member

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    Yes... yes it would.

    It would make it the single most powerful skill ever created...

    I mean, play that back in your head..

    That is killing every mob in the game... with a 1 point rabies... and you could always lead that last monster into another mob... hell, with practice you could probably get through an entire section of the game attacking once..

    Laz
     
  6. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Yes, it would. You would automatically kill anyone except an unbreakable poison immune. I mean, just bite Lister's pack, TP to town, do some shopping, maybe run Pindle once or twice, and go back. Only Lister will remain standing. Kind of defeats the purpose of having the skill deal a certain amount of damage if that skill will instead persist until everything is dead. Why not just change Rabies from reading "will deal between _____ and ____ damage" to reading "will persist until all monsters but one are dead, regardless of how many skill points are invested, so you might as well just save yourself the trouble and only put one point here. I mean, with one point unsynergized, you'll still be able to take down pretty much the entire Minions of Destruction wave, even though they're all 95% poison immune".

    Edit: I was beaten to it.



     
  7. xpumafangx

    xpumafangx IncGamers Member

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    Ya that would over power the skill. The skill as it is when a werewolf is suited up for it. Its preatty dang powerful as it is. 40/50k-40/50k poison damage is scary no matter how you look at it.
     
  8. Voice

    Voice IncGamers Member

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    You like my font do you? I knew you would. :flip:

    I use it so I can find my post faster ... I used to use yellow characters but then they took away color text option.:sad2: .

    And it does sound a lil powerful like everyone else said above.
     
  9. pedu

    pedu IncGamers Member

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    It could work if monsters would be immune to rabies for a while after the initial rabies.
     
  10. Guty

    Guty IncGamers Member

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    Maybe, putting a limit on how many monsters it goes to, maybe at level 1, 1 monster, level 2, 2 monsters and level 3, 3 monsters MAX. Meaning, only 3 monster can be poisoned by "Rabies" at once, but then again, it still sounds a little rigged.
     
  11. nebux

    nebux IncGamers Member

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    rabies is good as it is now. no need to twink
     
  12. Lord Nyax

    Lord Nyax Banned

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    I think the consensus is that it would be overpowered...here's a thought: make it so that if you go to town all effective spells stop, i.e. the rabies goes away. That way, with a level 1 Rabies, it'll take you a full 15 hours of running in circles, being chased by evil monsters, for them to die.

    I'm having a kinda hard time believing that a level 1 unsynergized Rabies would be able to kill before you gave up and left the game.

    I just checked, it'd do (18-43)/4 damage per second. That means that, assuming you can keep the monsters perfectly organized into a tight group so that they're always infected, it'd take you a full...771*4/18 = 171 1/3 seconds to kill the weakest monster in Act 1. Does that seem overpowered to you? Now admittedly, if you could infect them then idle in town for an hour and a half until the Rabies did it's thing, it'd be overpowered, but if it just lasted, virtually, for as long as you were willing to herd monsters, I don't think it would be.

    Thanks for the comments guys, this is going well.

    EDIT:
    @Nebux: You ever tried doing PvM with Rabies? Really hard...usually you have to get another skill just to kill monsters, much less kill Poison Immunes. Act Bosses are nigh invincible, and without some form of lowering resists...it's kinda hopeless as it is. I just want some way to solo with a Rabies druid without making him a Hybrid Fury/Rabies.
     
  13. pedu

    pedu IncGamers Member

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    Yea, rabies is good as it is. But knowing blizzard they probably "fix" it so it doesnt kill anymore.
     
  14. nebux

    nebux IncGamers Member

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    rabies work just like any other poison skills. high damage, but over infinite seconds. in PvM you need CB for bosses. the oly two good poison skills for Pvm are Poison Nova ( 2 seconds ) and Venom rest are useless
     
  15. Lord Nyax

    Lord Nyax Banned

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    Exactly, which is kinda why I think that Rabies would be more useful if it worked like I described. Poison Nova is useful PvM. So is Venom...kinda. Plauge Javalin has similar problems, but Zons can throws them from afar, and they have D/A/E skills to help them evade, and the Javs can pierce to spread poison even faster. Rabies kinda has the short end of the stick, PvM wise (PvP it can kill people, so that seems balanced enough for me. This is more of a PvM thing...).

    Also, the description of the skill...I mean, the infection thing is really cool. It always struck me as...a really cool idea, but it doesn't work the way I think it should...with the things I've described so far (with your help, guys), I think that Rabies could be a more viable PvM skill...

    Any other new objections?
     
  16. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    My Plague Javazon disagrees.

    Rabies at slvl 40 deals 1358.4 damage per second, fully synergized. Plague Javelin deals 2885.1, fully synergized. Poison Nova deals 2933.5, fully synergized. Given that a Plague Javelin deals pretty much the same damage as Poison Nova, and given that Plague Javelin costs 20 fewer skill points to synergize, and given that Plague Javelin lasts over nine times longer at slvl40, and given that Plague Javelin has a much longer range than Poison Nova, and given that Plague Javazons can switch to other killing skills while the PJ does its work, I'd go so far as to say that Plague Javelin is much more hell-viable than Poison Nova.

    Heck, starting at slvl 42, Plague Javelin will actually deal more damage per second than Poison Nova will (60,000+ total). Really underrated skill. For my money, it's the best PvM poison build in the game.



     
  17. Lord Nyax

    Lord Nyax Banned

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    Exactly (although you completely forgot to factor in the many, many items that the Necro has that boost the damage, and the Lower Resist curse). Venom is useful on a WW-Sin or a Kicker because it works SO BLOODY FAST. Poison nova is useful because Necros have a lot of ways to boost it, and it works over 2 seconds. Plague Javelin does well simply because the programmer who made it was paying more attention, so it does reasonable damage.

    Rabies is the loser of the group. It has one thing, and one thing only, going for it. The ability to "infect" and thus pass onto other monsters. IMO, seeing as how it's a "disease", it should continue to pass along and each new person should be infected for the duration listed. If your skill says that your Rabies lasts 15 seconds, and a person gets infected from another person, doesn't that mean they are infected for 15 seconds? How does it make sense otherwise?
     

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