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Thorns questions

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by CrazyChihuahua, Jul 5, 2008.

  1. CrazyChihuahua

    CrazyChihuahua IncGamers Member

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    Thorns questions

    Hey folks. I had a few questions relating mainly to any abilities that return damage.

    The main thing I'm wondering is how it affects spell casters. It obviously returns melee damage, and I think it returns ranged physical damage like arrows and such (right?), but what about casters? Do bone mages and the like not get the thorns damage from casting?

    Also, it would seem that if you wanted to deal damage by getting hit, having high defense would be counter-productive. I take it then there's no way to reduce the damage I take but get hit a lot. I'm sure there isn't, but I'm not sure if I'm missing some magical stat or not.

    Thanks for any help you have folks!
     
  2. Llathias

    Llathias Banned

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    Re: Thorns questions

    Thorns/Iron Maiden/Spirit of Barbs only reflects physical melee damage. Neither ranged attacks, nor spells, nor elemental damage added to melee attacks are reflected.

    Yes, high defense is counter-productive. I don't know the order damage reduction and reflection come into play, that might actually help reduce the damage you take. However, since monsters have such high HPs and deal such a small amount of damage, it's not a viable strategy.
     
  3. Mursilis

    Mursilis IncGamers Member

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    It works wonders through Normal, Big D kills himself off for example. However once you get into the latter part of Nightmare and all of Hell the returned damage just isn't enough to deal with monster packs.

    If you have damage reduction gear, that negates the damage dealt back to your attacker, so that idea won't work out.
     
  4. CrazyChihuahua

    CrazyChihuahua IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    Hmm, seems it has a lot working against it then. So when you say it isn't enough, you mean that it is impossible to use and doesn't match the monster heal amounts?

    It seems like it'd be fun to try, but if it won't make it in Hell, then it's either a waste of time or a challenge :p
     
  5. TopHatCat64

    TopHatCat64 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    The problem with Thorns is that monsters in Hell have a ton of hitpoints (3k-5k for just your basic skeleton) but do pitiful damage (big bad minions of destruction top out at 135 damage). Our characters are generally just the opposite, we have small HP pools but do a lot of damage. What ends up happening then is that you're pitting your weakness (low hp) against their strength (high hp). Generally the monster is going to win that battle of attrition.
     
  6. Vang

    Vang IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    Thorns + Amplify Damage can do some good. With +1000% damage, amplify and average at 50..just make sure you can swing something that deals poison damage to counteract it,

    I know that some Necromancer players use a thorns merc and amplify damage, it can be some what useful.

    Maybe an amazon with Valk, Decoy, thorns merc, using a javelin to poison things? Thats for things that can get hit, so maybe not all that bad.
     
  7. CrazyChihuahua

    CrazyChihuahua IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    Wow, only 135 damage for the big stuff? Huh, it seems like a lot more, but I guess that's the other things that do damage (ranged and magic).

    Those seem like some good ideas too Vang.

    Thanks for the input folks. Seems this kind of thing would be a lot harder than I imagined. I still want to try it at some point, but maybe not if I'd just be disappointed when getting to Hell.
     
  8. TopHatCat64

    TopHatCat64 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    I'd advise you to check out a thread on the Amazon Basin's paladin forum. It's entitled "Guardian Thorn, a VERY prickly missionary". I can't actually link to it since it's a competing site but it details someone making it through Hell with thorns playing a big part.

    Don't let what I said dissuade you, I just wanted to let you know that this won't be an easy build.



     
  9. CrazyChihuahua

    CrazyChihuahua IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    I read some of that thread, and it seems there's a lot of helpful information in there. It also showed that the person that did this had a twinked out character. I wanted to try something like it but with a druid. However, with significantly less damage returned from Spirit of Barbs, and trying to do it untwinked, I imagine it'd be nearly impossible.

    Thanks for that info.
     
  10. TheNix

    TheNix IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    I had a Thornadin back in the 1.09 days, he ploughed his way though normal and nightmare but the 50% physical resistance killed him in hell. In the end I turned him into an Avenger.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008
  11. Grisu

    Grisu IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    I remember the times when Iron Maiden+Blood Golem=Overkill...which version was that again?
     
  12. DoomyDoomyDoomDoom

    DoomyDoomyDoomDoom IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    Thanks for the heads up on that thorns related thread TopHatCat64.

    I was just about to post a thread to ask about thorns. It's too bad thorns is so limited in usefulness. I don't know if it would be balanced, but I'd have liked it if thorns reflected any and all types of damage done to the player.
     
  13. Vang

    Vang IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    Another question about thorns.

    Does damage reduction on character(either % or reduced by X) lower it, or does thorns and the spirit activate first? Meaning effectively you could lower your damage received to very little and let the creatures slowly kill themselves
     
  14. galtwish

    galtwish IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    Same here, but for 1.07. The build was silly good in Normal and through A4 NM, swinging a 2H sword for style and life steal. He died about 15 times in A1 Hell and I gave up on him. It was a huge letdown after the ease with which he got up to Hell.

    Thorns can be a 1 pt wonder for Normal while your endgame skills develop and you can suboptimize your character with +skills stuff because you don't need huge resistances. Sigon's Guard, Tarnhelm, and Peasant Crown all work to help this strategy, as well as class specific skill-tree ammys and hats. If you are thinking about Spirit of Barbs, find an item that grants you this skill or just put a point into it if you think you'll have some left over.


     
  15. Xdeathfire

    Xdeathfire IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    I think I made one as my first character ever in Diablo 2 in 1.07 or something like iirc. I feel ashamed just remembering how nooby I was back then.....it was an accomplishment for me to have all of my gear be rare...


     
  16. Colorless Green

    Colorless Green IncGamers Member

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    Re: Thorns questions

    1.09 and everything eariler.

    -CG


     

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