Thorn Hunter

[Whitewolf72]

Thorn Hunter

Well I got so stoked about Pseudenviros thorns plus edge Idea ( http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=297008 ) last night that I decided to build one. It has occurred to me after I started that I might have been a little enthusiastic about the equipment. I spent two hours trading today and only came up with two grand charms. If anyone on this forum had summon gcs plz pm and I will try to come up with something to trade with u for them. Anyhow I have made a elemental druid before but I have found in the short time that I have played this hunter that he has brought back a true enjoyment of the game for me. I love it people act like I am crazy when I tell them I am building basicaly a pure summoner around some bow and armor combo. I only had time to get to lvl 16 today after my time spent trading but I will work on him somemore tomorrow. Things I have noticed about the hunter build so far: does fairly well lvl 1-16 but I can tell that he is going to need group support from lvl 20-40. I am going to keep a running review of this character as I go along and try to highlight the strengths and weakness as I go. I think this guy will start coming into his own around lvl 45 when the summon tree synergies realy start kicking in and he has access to higher end bows. Oh yes and one more thing I cant find a helm with +summon +dru skills on it just ele and were if someone has a unique with those mods laying around I would be willing to part with some high end stuff for it.
(ever notice nobody has stuff for summoners just ele and weres just seems to make it hard to come by)

 

[Forcefeedback]

Hi!

Your and pseudoenviro's plan sounds sweet, something original for a change.
Thorns coupled with edges prevent monster heal will kill monsters but theres always the question of speed. I'll do a very rough estimates of damage returns using rounded attributes of a fallen in hell. It does ~50 physical damage, 15 physical resistance and has ~1500 life.That would mean 50/1500*0.85*16,5 = ~0,47 meaning it would lose 47% of its hit points when hitting your summon if the target had 0% damage reduction and it is a /players 1 game. In a /players 8 game against a yeti it would be roughly 55/(9000*8)*0,5*16,5 = ~0.01. Patience is a virtue...
My calculations might be off but what I'm trying to point out is that you need either a weapon with amplify damage or lots of elemental damage ready when tough, not to mention physical immune, monsters appear later in the game.

Keep us up to date on your progress.

 

[Cudgel]

well keep us updated. When i firs saw edge I had to make one and I did the first evryone heard about the new runewords.
I think its nice because of the large %ED vs Undead and Demons and 355 IAS the thorns was jsut a nice little thing because it doesnt really do much for me.

OH and did anyone find out if the thorns from Bramble and from Edge stack?

You might want to max out Poison creeper before any other summon If found that it kills things really fast up until Hell as long as you willing to some times recast it quickly.
And I dont have any summon GCS at all Im really poor.
You might want to look for, if you dont already have one, is a dark clan crusher it has like +2 druid ksills on it Some of the summon are prebufable like the sprits.

 

[psuedoenviro]

I let that thread die quietly for a number of reasons, but I guess I should come clean about my mistakes. I was overly excited about the new RWs.

I have heard that auras like lvl 15 Holy Shock on 2 Dreams will stack and make a lvl 30 Holy Shock. I don't know if anyone has tested to see if 2 Thorns auras with different lvls and from 2 different RW will stack. So I don't even know if it is viable.

I never crunched the numbers on the thorns damage. Like Forcefeedback said, the thorns damage may not cut it in /8 players hell. However, I will say that I play my hunter solo often and in few games over 3 ppl total. I try to avoid overpowered teammates because I want to contribute equally and not feel like I am being rushed. It still could be an option in NM, but there are other reasons why it isn't amazing.

From what I understand (read: may or maynot be right) about %damage demons/undead, they will not be modified by skill damage. Basically, if you do bow's base damage is 10-40 and with 200% damage to undead, you end up doing 20-80 extra damage to undead. Your HoW will not increase this damage. It would make me feel like a pure summoner who just isn't using a HoTo/Spirit. If your going to be a hunter, then you are going to want your bow to do some damage.

I even was wondering if I could put the Edge and Bramble on a Act 1 Cold rouge as a way to avoid using a might merc like 90% of my characters do. Maybe combined with a Lacerator/Spirit for the Amp/+skills it could work. The 35ias, pmh, and thorns in a -10 base speed bow seemed nice.

I initially looked at edge and its low runes and thought this bow could be made with a low char lvl requirement. I figured that it would serve at least as a good bow for a Act 1 rouge in norm from Act 2-NM Act 2 when I could get a NM might merc. Then I realized Amn was lvl 25 rune and that it wasn't really a viable weapon until Act 4 norm or later.

Well, that's about it.

Edit: Whitewolf72, Please keep working on your Thorns Hunter and let us know how it turns out. If your determined then you should ignore the negatives and really go for it. I have shifted my attention to a Harmony Hunter.

 

[Cudgel]

well I think edge is nice bow but i never used it on my hunter except very breilfy, I lacked the IAS to make it faster than my demon machine. I gave it to my Bowsin and she killed diablo and the ancients alone using it at 25 and 29. Against diablo I was the only one who didnt die at all. I think the best part of Edge aside from it %ED vs Undead and demon is its PMH.

that isa good point aobut its char lvl requirement being such that you wont be able to use it until about act4 norm.

 

[Whitewolf72]

You guys make a good point as this build is going to be more of a summoner that happens to carry a bow than a true hunter. I am planning on the main offensive power comeing from the minions themselves. The thorns aura was just to make them realy hurtful to hit. I was hoping to take care of the PI's later in the game with a rogue with a good bow and armor and helm combo that way I could have a good elemental weapon held for me by the rogue. And maybe a little elemental dmg equip myself I dont know what yet. So far I have noticed that casters love to party with me as the dogs make good shields and the monsters target them first. With me and the rogue merc standing back and raining arrows down on stuff I have done very well in the second act and felt like we definetely pulled our weight. One of the reasons I am pushing this guy so far onto the summoning side is that I am trying to synergize the wolves to the point where they will last a little. My envisionment for this character is three dire wolves with decent life and damage running around attacking and if they get meleed what ever attacks them goes ouch. Boss and champion creatures cast 5k dmg grizz and stand behind wall everything but PIs should go down without to much fuss. Pvp I doubt this guy would do anything but it would be fun to cast five wolves and run around like a crazed chipmunk while the wolves whittled at someone till they attacked back maybe picked up the 185% (after the 1/10 pvp penalty)dmg returned. Should be full 185%dmg returned minus whatever DR that they have on as the minions wont have any DR themselves. Anyhow that is all still a ways off for me as my D2 time this week is severly limited. I did manage to pick up some clegaws pinchers while looking for charms today. They have to be the coolest low lvl item in the game (knock back and slow).
I know I am not allowed to use them in a pvp game but this guy is not realy designed with that in mind. Like I said thanks for the input and will keep posting when I make some progress.

 

[Uzziah]

Thorns does not make a build in Hell no matter how big the returned damage.

You have to take damage to have thorns return damage, and the amount of damage you take is the determining factor in thorns, so reducing damage actually reduces your Thorn damage, kind of an oxi-moron (sp).

You would need a really high end healing build to mix with thorns maybe a dual healing aura paladin with bramble and edge could muster the +life regen needed for such a build to work but its going to be a hard road no matter what.

Ranged will not take damage from Thorns either which adds a major delimea (sp) to your build idea. The old thorns paladin will only make it midway through nightmare before it becomes ineffiecent but with a healing paladin you may be able to make it into Hell. A druid will not be able to muster the healing aspect enough to make the thorns worthwhile.

 

[Whitewolf72]

Point taken. I will still build and play with him untill he becomes unplayable and then it is a easy thing to switch gear and become a more conventional hunter if that is how it has to be.

 

[Pherdnut]

The real problem with thorn style abilities is the damage/health ratio. While characters can dish out enormous amounts of damage to monsters, they have only a fraction of the kinds of health that monsters can have. Monsters in Hell do a fair bit of damage but it is so weak compared to the kind of damage a character can do that even with Bramble armor and the edge bow, they would still have to be hitting you and your minions several times in order to kill themselves.

I've done similar math with bramble armor alone which gives you Thorns, Spirit of Barbs, and an Iron Golem. Even when hitting the golem, some relatively common monsters in Hell would have to hit themselves a good 10-12 times in order to die and I think damage reduction causes the damage returned to be reduced in equal measure. As a PvM builds go damage returned characters aren't that great. However, I would imagine it could make a nice supplemental ability to throw on top of a strong poison/summon hybrid where rapid nickling and diming is the name of the game.

I don't know about Druid Summons, but skeletons return the FULL damage in PvP, making it a loads of fun for putting those overeager whirlwind barbs in their place. You might want to experiment with your summons to see if other players take full damage back or just a fraction when hitting your summoned critters.

 

[kurupt439]

What realm are you on whitewolf? I've got a hunter on east full of charms but I don't play anymore and would give them to you if you still need them.