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This time it's war

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Flux, Oct 30, 2010.

  1. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    This time it's war

    A couple of Jay Wilson quotes from a video interview:

    While D3 reflects what came before, it tells it's own story. The story is fairly self-contained. The early parts of the game have more flashbacks to the previous games. That's one of the reasons we added lorebooks.

    ...One of the big things we like to talk about is that the previous games have been about one or a few demons wreaking havoc in Sanctuary. Diablo III is the first of the games where it's not just one demon hanging out. It's literally all of hell invading. This is all out war on Sanctuary. Hell has seen the power of humanity, that they destroyed the Prime Evils. So Hell has decided that this is war and they're going to burn it all down. Players really need to be ready for a Hell on Earth scenario.


    Anyone else excited to see how this is presented? They gave some details about it in the Crafting Sanctuary panel, with the Bastion's Keep scenario, but it's going to be amazing to see visually, in the cinematics and also in the game.

    What will a demonic army look like? I mean as compared to the general scattered rabble of enemies we see all through the diablo games. Imagine if they're actually organized and show some discipline, like a real squadron of soldiers?

    That can only go so far, since ranged attackers would love concentrated blocks of monsters while the Monk and Barb would find penetrating their bristling hedgehog exterior unpalatable. But as much as the devs have talked about wanting to insert elements that force players to alter their usual gameplay style... taking on whole blocks of demon soldiers at once would certainly fit the bill.
     
  2. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    All out war? Oh, it's on now!



    Lorewise, S*** just hit the fan. Gameplay-wise, we're open to so many variations one monsters, that this could easily be a chance to see classic favorites and new spins on demonic lore.




    On the soldier comment, this seems to be at least one direction they've gone. The Fallen have the leader types, so it's a command and minion style there. Cultists still have that little squad like the Oblivion Knights + Doom Knight did, and the Unravelers + Skeletons thing.

    It at least keeps that big baddie + meat shield feel to it.





    With this in mind, I'm rooting for it to feel like a wave of enemies. Let them come. I'll be more than happy to chep them down to size. ;)
     
  3. Valhauros

    Valhauros Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    I think they are escalating the threat too much...

    In D1 made sense to me that the hero was able to defeat Diablo, because he was possessing a relatively weak body, but later it became known that it was allegedly a trap to posses the warrior's body, in order to have a strong enough vessel to free his brothers. Also, the other heroes went completely insane.

    In D2, the hero is facing innumerable hordes summoned by three Primal Evils, each of them with a stronger host than the other and still, one manages to defeat all of those pesky demons, enter Hell, swipe the entire perception of eternal torment and kill Diablo in his own lair with no help whatsoever. Then, the hero gets pissed because Marius gets killed and razes through hundreds of soldiers and monsters from Baal's army and finally kills the combined forces of the Lord of Destruction and the sheer power of the strongest member, and former leader, of the Horadrim. (By the way, Why was the Horadrim created in the first place when a single person could so easily attain that amount of power, completely eliminating the necessity for a task force of the strongest mages in the world?)

    Now, in D3, the hero will become apparently stronger than God himself if lore progresses the way it has been. I wonder, What's the point of Hell planning a war when a single sexy blondie with a ponytail is able to obliterate thousands of minions in less than an hour?
     
  4. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    The Nephalim were always supposed to be stronger than demon and angel, but never realize their potential (that was suppressed for generations).



    Also, Hell wouldn't know they can solo the entire realm. They have to learn that the hard way.:evil:
     
  5. konfeta

    konfeta Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    A. Gameplay and story segregation.
    B. Humans are supposed to be potentially more powerful than Angels/Demons. (look up Nephalem)
    C. Worldstone destruction removed the only thing that was limiting the strength of the human race.
     
  6. Valhauros

    Valhauros Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    Where does those things come from? The books?

    Never read them, mmm...
     
  7. fmulder

    fmulder Site Contributor

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    Re: This time it's war

    Lets' just hope they don't use the "activate a magical artifact to destroy the demon army" plot device again. I am looking at you Starcraft 2.:wink:
     
  8. FaintSmile

    FaintSmile Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    just a question? who's leading hell army now? The Prime Evils are dead (atleast temporary). some Lesser Evils are also dead.

    BUT, Izual said something that the "plan is in motion" or something like that. So, I can't help BUT to think that this "all-out-war" is their plan by destroying the world stone.

    BTW, how about the "Pandemonium Fortress" isn't it the last bastion before the burning gates of hell? if hell is let loose on Sanctuary then logically it was destroyed.
     
  9. Risingred

    Risingred Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    I recall a thread coming up on bnet where a fellow asked when the civil war ended in Hell. I looked at the official timeline, I read the cain journals, I checked around and it seems that the war never really ended. There's just allusions to it. So unless there's some info in the books about it, I think that is a good question (ie, Who's leading the hell army now?).
     
  10. fromtheshadow

    fromtheshadow Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    you got to realize that our playthroughs in game aren't quite appropriate for lore. someone can play the campaign real wacky and you can't expect that to be held as lore! Also how do you account for multiplay/ party play vs just doing the campaign single player?

    According to the lore in D1 there were many individuals that participated in fighting demons in the different levels of the monastery, the wonderer/warrior was just the best of them and it was him who killed diablo. how do i know this? it's mentioned in the in town dialog, for instance in D2 the rough leader says blood raven was the leader of the rouges fighting diablo in tristam!

    As for D2, again many were involved and it is suggested that all the classes together killed the prime evils.

    as for the nephalem thing, only the first demon/angel hybrids were nephalem, and the modern sanctuary humans are not nephalem. also in the book it was suggested that even the nephalem weren't really a match for the prime evils so that is crossed out.

    Honestly it just seems like the reason some humans are able to kill prime evils is just sheer will power and luck, they are not supermen or anything.


     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2010
  11. Malaterre

    Malaterre Diabloii.Net Member

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  12. Valhauros

    Valhauros Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    I both agree and disagree: I realize that it's kind of obvious that a single character didn't defeat the forces of Hell on it's own, but I do think that the creators, writers or whoever are in charge of lore have progressively been changing the parameters of the world and power, either through mystical or sheer strength. The first game was far more realistic, in relation to real word values, regarding the endurance of the characters, which is probably why I like it more...

    I've been reading the books, and in my opinion, is pretty much crap. Sure, congratulations to the writes for their good literary work and their success, but honestly, it seems they tried way too hard to change Diablo's gothic, sword & sorcery / dark fantasy genre into a very deep high fantasy work. Diablo 1 was about real world fears, mostly of catholic origin, and representing them in a medieval setting, whereas D2 and D3 are about this huge fantasy world, like Trang'Oul, a dragon made of stars... yeah, pretty cool...


     
  13. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    Lore-wise, it's a team of people of undetermined size (a raid for all we know). For gameplay purposes, it has to be solo-able since SP is an option.
     
  14. Malaterre

    Malaterre Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    Yes, I had quite the same feeling. Especially for the "Sin Wars" trilogy. It seemed only vaguely related to the Diablo universe as we know it. Sure it is very remote in time compared to the actual setting of the games. But still, it looked more like a generic fantasy story with some Diablo elements plugged into it.
    Some other stories better capture the "Diablo mood" like "Moon of the Spider".

    Anyway, not really good reads as far as I am concerned. Just interesting to dig a bit into Diablo lore but I was not impressed by these novels.
     
  15. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    I still need to read Moon of the Spider, but I did mange to get Kingdom of Shadow, and that one gave me a Diablo feel.


    The Sin War seemed too over the top for me, but the vague, underlying story behind the main char was what I ended up focusing on.
     
  16. ancalagon

    ancalagon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    Where? uldyssian took on both diablo and inarius and overpowered them and was even a very clear match for tyrael, and that's when he was already way too tired from battle.

    I too think that now the worldstone is destroyed, a lot of humanity's power is flowing back to them. I can especially feel it with the new barb skills on show (ancient spear, hammer of the ancients) and all these new fantastical powers wielded by the monk and the wizard most noticeably.

    Sin War is a great trilogy, lots of interesting characters, subplots and lore in there. The Black Road is really bad, Legacy of Blood was good but not over the top, Demonsbane is 'cute' for lack of better words, it just feels like someone wrote it in too much of a hurry though. MOTS and Kingdom of Shadow are by far the best standalone books. Kingdom of Shadow in particular, but both are amazing.


     
  17. fromtheshadow

    fromtheshadow Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    uldyssain was not a nephalem! he was a modern human, the nephalem weren't entirely human, bul kathos for instance was made up of earth.

    also like others have said the story of the sin wars trilogy was only marginally diabloish and had a really high fantasy feel to. and uldyssain's over powerment just made the story bull! what is the purpose of the struggle if a single charactor can overpower demi gods like the prime evils and archangels? like doesn't that just end the story right there?

    I am personally highly against the supermanification of humanity in the diablo series. the general feel of the diablo series is that humanity is weak in comparison to demons and angels and finds it self in a terrible situation. I am ok with heroic character classes that take on the demons but like i said even they are vulnerable. and it's by their skill and martial expertise that they kill demons not by their all powerful nature.
    fortunately it seems the D3 team is still maintaining that humans are ****ed and powerless(for the most part, except for the heroes we will be) if the debut cinematic trailer is any indication.

    I though the sin wars books weren't good, the black road was fair it wasn't way over the top epicness like the sin wars and i also like the ending and how demons never die. the kingdom shadow was ok.


     
  18. Risingred

    Risingred Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    They were crimes against the written word.

    I never got the impression that humans were supposed to be weak in the Diablo series. Weakened or not, the Warrior killed Diablo in D1. I got the impression that they were locked in the middle of a struggle that they had the power to decide the outcome of, if that makes sense. If they are to have the ability to decide the fate of their race (which they should, that's the strongest theme in the series) then they are going to have to match demons and angels in terms of "power" to accomplish that goal.


     
  19. fromtheshadow

    fromtheshadow Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    examples of humans being weak in comparison to demons:

    1) in diablo 1 a small band of demons killed most of the towns folk in tristram right before the game itself starts.
    2) first diablo cinematic shows lowly skeleton killing human opponent, not mention all of the peolpe in the tavern being killed except for Marius( which was intentional)!
    3) in every act of D2 we hear how the populace is unable to deal with the demons effectively.

    many other example.

    again i must say that obviously the classes we play are highly skilled fighters and are champions of mankind, but still lore wise our characters are supposed to be still human and are able to die by a regular wounds. they are just exceptionally skilled and dodge enemy attack.


     
  20. Risingred

    Risingred Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: This time it's war

    The characters are still human, yes, but this means something different in Sanctuary. Even the warrior in D1 was capable of busting out a screen full of lightning.

    And the Marius scene...he was in an opium den. :p
    The bartender was some kind of disfigured midget! C'mon!

    The only beef I had with the cinematics is that Marius wasn't killed. He wasn't exactly pivotal to Diablo's plan. But a human did what Tyrael could not, and that not only includes killing Diablo, but that also includes freeing Baal. Which is the redeeming factor of Marius being in the cinematic. It wasn't explained, is the only problem. But I don't want to go all editor on you.

    For your third point, that's just kind of a necessary evil to have a game plot. Naturally they can't stave off the demons in Kurast, or else there wouldn't be a game.
    If I were to say something about the strength of humans, I would have one name for you: Deckard Cain. That dude? Immortal.
     

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