This is the world if we lose

This is the world if we lose

The Independant said:
Disembowelled, then torn apart: The price of daring to teach girls
By Kim Sengupta in Ghazni, Afghanistan
Published: 29 November 2006


The gunmen came at night to drag Mohammed Halim away from his home, in front of his crying children and his wife begging for mercy.

The 46-year-old schoolteacher tried to reassure his family that he would return safely. But his life was over, he was part-disembowelled and then torn apart with his arms and legs tied to motorbikes, the remains put on display as a warning to others against defying Taliban orders to stop educating girls.

Mr Halim was one of four teachers killed in rapid succession by the Islamists at Ghazni, a strategic point on the routes from Kabul to the south and east which has become the scene of fierce clashes between the Taliban and US and Afghan forces.

The day we arrived, an Afghan policemen and eight insurgents died during an ambush in an outlying village. Rockets were found, primed to be fired into Ghazni City during a visit by the American ambassador a few days previously.

But, as in the rest of Afghanistan, it is the civilians who are bearing the brunt of this conflict. At the village of Qara Bagh, the family of Mr Halim are distraught and terrified. His cousin, Ahmed Gul, shook his head: "They killed him like an animal. No, no. We do not kill animals like that, it would be haram. They took away a father and a husband, they had no pity. We are all very worried. Please go now, you see those men standing over there? They are watching. It is dangerous for you, and for us."

Fatima Mushtaq, the director of education at Ghazni, has had repeated death threats, the notorious "night letters". Her gender, as well as her refusal to send girls home from school, has made her a particular source of hatred for Islamist zealots.

"I think they killed him that way to frighten us, otherwise why make a man suffer so much? Mohammed Halim and his family were good friends of ours and we are very, very upset by what has happened. He came to me when the threats first began and asked what he should do. I told him to move somewhere safe. I think he was trying to arrange that when they came and took him," she said.

The threats against Ms Mushtaq also extend to her husband, Sayyid Abdul, and their eight children. "When the first letters arrived, I tried to hide them from my husband," she said. "But then he found the next few. He said we must stand together. We talked, and we decided that we must tell the children. So that they can be prepared, but it is not a good way for them to grow up."

Ms Mushtaq is familiar with the ways of the Taliban. During their rule she and her sister ran secret schools for girls at their home. The Taliban beat them for teaching the girls algebra.
Source
This is why the only talking we should do with them is with large caliber weapons and high explosives.

Those of you that don't want war, this is what the world will be like if we lose. One can only assume that anybody that doesn't want these animals slaughtered is somebody that supports this evil.
 

SaroDarksbane

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
This is why the only talking we should do with them is with large caliber weapons and high explosives.

Those of you that don't want war, this is what the world will be like if we lose. One can only assume that anybody that doesn't want these animals slaughtered is somebody that supports this evil.
You're talking about Afganistan, a war which I supported and which I still do support.

Unfortunately for broken record Republicans, Afghanistan != Iraq.



 

SaroDarksbane

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
I figured you'd be the first to post and miss the point entirely.
Well, to be honest I did ignore your fear-mongering "OMG if we don't blowz up da middul eest da terrerists will dragz us from our homez liek him!" statements.

I was planning on letting such irrationality slide in favor of the bigger picture (Worth-while Afganistan vs. Worthless Iraq), but I suppose we could talk about that one too if you prefer.



 

Yaboosh

Diabloii.Net Member
He missed the point because he didn't generalize this incident to all of the Middle East?

Bad Saro. Bad.
 
Both of you have missed the point that the enemy are barely animals. Too many in here have said that no war is good. So one must assume that they support this kind of evil.
 

SaroDarksbane

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
Both of you have missed the point that the enemy are barely animals. Too many in here have said that no war is good. So one must assume that they support this kind of evil.
And war kills many times more civilians than it does "animals". Therefore, to be pro-war you must support murdering a massive amount of innocent people.

See? Aren't illogical connections fun?



 

Ariadne

Diabloii.Net Member
Animals are nice and furry. They are also very honest. They can be destructive but they are never consiously mean.
 

publius

Diabloii.Net Member
I think the point that Saro and Yaboosh are making is that the "enemy" isn't as simple as you make them out to be?
 

Road Ratt

Diabloii.Net Member
I doubt that there are many who do not support the real War on Terror that is being fought in Afghanistan. The problem is that this administration has forgotten all about it by trying to do this war on the cheap, while wasting time and resources on Iraq, and ****ing up both wars in the process.

Win the War? Win the War? We all want to win the war... in Afghanistan, The war in Iraq has been over long ago! It's time for them to stop screwing around and get Iraq stabilized so they can get our guys home, then all sides can shout "Victory"!
 

Lord Nyax

Banned
Smeg, your arguement is a bit lopsided...as has been pointed out a couple of times. You get an article about some evil-bastard-Taliban activity, then assume that every man in the "Middle East" is an evil-bastard-Taliban agent. There are multitudes of different types of people in the Middle East. A lot of them, surprisingly, are not evil-bastard-Taliban, but rather patriots who don't think their country should be run from afar by a super power. Is it really that hard to blame them?

Animals are nice and furry. They are also very honest. They can be destructive but they are never consiously mean.
Go watch a documentary on ants/termites. Those guys are vicious bastards. I'm very, very glad that I live with humans rather than ants. Very...very glad.



 

Ariadne

Diabloii.Net Member
Smeg, your arguement is a bit lopsided...as has been pointed out a couple of times. You get an article about some evil-bastard-Taliban activity, then assume that every man in the "Middle East" is an evil-bastard-Taliban agent. There are multitudes of different types of people in the Middle East. A lot of them, surprisingly, are not evil-bastard-Taliban, but rather patriots who don't think their country should be run from afar by a super power. Is it really that hard to blame them?

Go watch a documentary on ants/termites. Those guys are vicious bastards. I'm very, very glad that I live with humans rather than ants. Very...very glad.

Oh they're vicious alright - but not opiniated.



 

EliManning

Diabloii.Net Member
Too many in here have said that no war is good.
I'd like to see some links. The only war I've ever seen argued against on this forum is Iraq (and indirectly Vietnam a couple times depending on how you read certain arguments against Iraq), and therefore in my opinion you're trying to use Afghanistan to justify Iraq.

And p.s. that won't be the world if we lose, it will just be Afghanistan. Afghanistan wasn't into conquest, there was just a couple week period of history where they were into hiding OBL and a couple training camps from us. We went there for revenge or justice or whatever you want to call it, not to teach little girls to read or stop people from getting killed by rogue gangsters or deliver NFL games in high definition. So people getting disembowled for defying islamic law is almost certainly on Afghanistan's future agenda regardless of whether or not we accomplish our mission. And it still has nothing to do with any war that has ever been protested on this forum.



 

bg1256

Diabloii.Net Member
And p.s. that won't be the world if we lose, it will just be Afghanistan. .
The only thing I'd challenge you on here is that radical Islamic fundamentalism is about conquest, and if they had their way, everyone would practice Islam as they do - through violent means if necessary.

I'm not pro-Iraq war, mind you. I agree with you on that point, but don't be too naive about the extreme sects of Islam (or Christianity for that matter).



 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, maybe we shouldn't have cut and run in Afghanistan to go fighting a completely unrelated war in Iraq.

P.S. There are people like this in countries we're allied with, too. Cue stories of rural Pakistan.

Those of you that don't want war, this is what the world will be like if we lose.
Afghani Taliban forces are going to conquer the world, eh? Seems like any two-bit punk can do that these days...

Animals are nice and furry. They are also very honest. They can be destructive but they are never consiously mean.
Not really true, cats torture their kills for one thing.

But yes, no animal can be as consciously cruel as a human. That turn of phrase is rather ironic.



 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
The only thing I'd challenge you on here is that radical Islamic fundamentalism is about conquest, and if they had their way, everyone would practice Islam as they do - through violent means if necessary.
That's not what the Taliban is about though. They're part of a regional power struggle, religion is only a guise. As usual.



 

Ariadne

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, maybe we shouldn't have cut and run in Afghanistan to go fighting a completely unrelated war in Iraq.

P.S. There are people like this in countries we're allied with, too. Cue stories of rural Pakistan.



Afghani Taliban forces are going to conquer the world, eh? Seems like any two-bit punk can do that these days...



Not really true, cats torture their kills for one thing.

But yes, no animal can be as consciously cruel as a human. That turn of phrase is rather ironic.
That's what I meant to say. I ran out of proper English.



 

Daethwalker

Diabloii.Net Member
What really pi$$es me off about the war in Iraq and this administrations many, many blunders, is very simple. If we had stayed out of Iraq and allowed the miltary to fight the war in Afghanistan, instead of Rumsfield and his assorted nuts, we'd probably be out of Afghanistan by now ... with OBLs head on a platter.

So, instead of winning one war and looking around at the next "axis of evil" to stomp on, we're bogged down and losing two wars and blaming it on everyone but the dumba$$es that got us into 2 wars at the same time and then proceeded to royally screw them both up.
 
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