This is how I would design - DIABLO 4

_TOP_Commander

Diabloii.Net Member
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mrpinsky

Diabloii.Net Member
So basically you want to revert back to D2 on everything + easier respecs + legendary gems from D3?
 

_TOP_Commander

Diabloii.Net Member
Revert to what made the best Diablo game the best ARPG for 16+ years. :)

Then fix what needed improvement (Talisman for charms, Shared-Stash, Potion-Spam, etc)

And last but not least, build upon the best base in the genre history to make it even better.

Respecs are identical to how D2 works today, Except that Stats can be reset at any time to let you re-optimize your stats after you find gear that you would like to wear. Skill-Trees can only be reset once per difficulty, and then you need to farm matts from bosses to craft respec-token, just like in D2 today. This is a good compromise to allow noobs to fix their mistakes, or allow people to experiment a little more freely, yet still make your choices have some consequences.

IMO, D2 needed just minor improvements, and then many new features added to existing core-features of D2. That was the recipe for an epic successor.

Keep in mind, D2 fans wanted D2 to be at the core of the new game. All other non-D2 players, would never know that the core-features existed before in D2 when playing D3, as they never played D2. The 12 years between the two Diablo games was so long, that entirely different generations were playing them. This means that they should have kept D2's core game, to please D2 fans (main target demographic) and new-comers (Secondary-Demographic), because they were either not born yet when D2 was at its peak, or simply too young. This means they would never know what features were or weren't brought back from a previous Diablo game (D2) into D3.

Instead they alienated D2 fans (the main target demographic) and also failed to appeal to new-comers as well. They made a gamble, and lost. Maybe with D4, they know better this time.
 

Dacar92

Moderator: Community, D2 Zon, DH, Inc Clan Officer
So basically you want to revert back to D2 on everything + easier respecs + legendary gems from D3?
Not sure if you were reading forums like here or even Reddit in mid 2012, but most of the complaints about D3 (besides the "in your face" story) were that D3 was so unlike D2 that it wasn't any good.

That previous sentence is a one sentence summary of all of the complaints about D3 for months and months; a very general summary. So yes, a reboot could work, but it also needs to distinguish itself enough from D2 and D3 plus also all of the other ARPG's out there today, like POE, Grim Dawn, etc. D2 would be a good basis upon which to build D4 but it needs to be different enough, too. A difficult task for even Blizzard.

I would also argue that the "main" target audience wasn't the D2 crowd. The D2 crowd had grown up. Blizzard needed to capture a new demo, the teens and early 20's crowd who never played it but who would get caught up in the press about D3. They needed a new audience, expand it while also keeping the D2 crowd happy, which to some extent they did but (I think) a very vocal minority disliked the game.
 
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_TOP_Commander

Diabloii.Net Member
I meant to say that the D2 crowd should have been one of the main audiences at least, and the new-comer generation should have been the other main audience.

I think they steered way too far away from D2, especially in terms of feature-mechanics, itemization and mood, to make the D2 crowd happy. The new generation that is their other main demographic they tried to win was so young that they never played D2, so they would have never noticed that D3 would have been based on D2. But the D2 crowd would have noticed it and they would have loved it. Please the D2 fans and you get a strong fan base that draws in all the casuals and new generations. They failed to achieve that. Maybe with D4 they will.
 

Valeli

Diabloii.Net Member
I'd be happy if it were like Path of Exile but with (slightly) better graphics and, obviously, the Diablo setting. And I'd be totally fine with simpler skill trees than the huge wandering one in PoE which, while certainly interesting, is a bit more of a min-maxers paradise than a simple effort to make you choose a spec ala D2.

I think PoE is a pretty cool game honestly, and they've done a good job with a free to play model that's consistently avoided being pay to win. (Although I'd be 100% fine with simply paying for D3/4, and would prefer it to a free to play model anyways. Even if it was the ideal free to play game. It gets weird when people start running around instances with wings and weird pets that break immersion. Oh. Wait. D3 has that anyways.......)

I mean, I don't want identical mechanics. But PoE did a good job with atmosphere, itemization, and most of the things that make a game compelling and afford excellent replayability. So did D2.

I think I'm going to fire up D3 briefly again for the start of season 9 here, but Blizzard missed the ball so badly with this one. I already know I'll be tired of it by like.... two weeks in. 3 Weeks into the season I'll probably have stopped logging in and stopped remembering the game is even on my PC.

Blizzard tried so proactively to make something new, with identity. I really wish they hadn't though. There's no need to fix something that isn't broke, and the Diablo franchise already had an identity. This game has just been a consistent source of frustration for me.

On the up side, that will probably save me from paying whatever horrific fee Blizzard wants for the necromancer. Seriously: who releases a single character ~3 years after the last real update, by itself, and charges premium pricing for it? Makes me admire PoE/Grinding Gear Games even more.


Edit: @Dacar92 - yes, Bliz did want/need a new audience. But I don't see why the tone of the game had to change, much less change so significantly, to attract one. People still like grim-serious stuff today. In fact, I'd argue that the success of recent shows like Breaking Bad/Game of Thrones/etc shows that current consumers of media absolutely love well-designed stories that take themselves seriously. PoE was doubtless infinitely cheaper than D3 to put together, but it seems it found a decent audience as well despite (because of?) it's tone. The people it drew in certainly weren't all old 30+ year olds who had fond memories of D1 (although many were).

New fans were needed, yes, but an in-your-face cartoony reboot was absolutely not needed to draw them in.
 
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Diogenes_The_Dog

Diabloii.Net Member
D2 would be a good basis upon which to build D4 but it needs to be different enough, too. A difficult task for even Blizzard.
Why would it need to be different?

I would also argue that the "main" target audience wasn't the D2 crowd. The D2 crowd had grown up. Blizzard needed to capture a new demo, the teens and early 20's crowd who never played it but who would get caught up in the press about D3.
The dark atmosphere and story from the original Diablo interested me when I was around 13 years old. Why wouldn't the same kind of game interest the modern-day 13 year old?

which to some extent they did but (I think) a very vocal minority disliked the game.
From my own experience a lot of people purchased the game but were completely disappointed or came away with a "meh" feeling.

Look at the success of Path of Exile. A game based in a wholly new universe that came from a company with zero reputation. Path of Exile isn't perfect either.
 
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mrpinsky

Diabloii.Net Member
Not sure if you were reading forums like here or even Reddit in mid 2012, but most of the complaints about D3 (besides the "in your face" story) were that D3 was so unlike D2 that it wasn't any good.
I'm aware of that, I've been around since the announcement of D3 and have been one of the "vocal minority", as you call it, who complained about the direction D3 took. My statement above was just an attempt to summarize Commander's big chart.

Personally, I'm all for going back to the roots with D4, but more in a spiritual than in a literal sense. What Commander proposes sounds like an almost exact remake with even the same themes/looks of the five acts (except the last two are swapped). I think a new Diablo game needs to be more than just a remake, at the very least mix up the acts a bit and give us some new areas to explore.
 
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Dacar92

Moderator: Community, D2 Zon, DH, Inc Clan Officer
Why would it need to be different?
See below and the post above this one.

The dark atmosphere and story from the original Diablo interested me when I was around 13 years old. Why wouldn't the same kind of game interest the modern-day 13 year old?
That's exactly what I am saying. The old D2 crowd had grown up and moved on to new things. I think Blizzard felt they needed a new game with today's gloss and graphics that would interest today's 13 year old while at the same time capturing the 23 or 43 year old who used to play D2 back in the day. I think they thought they wanted a brand new game that carried on after the events of D2. After all, that kind of makes sense. I can see the attraction towards that idea.



From my own experience a lot of people purchased the game but were completely disappointed or came away with a "meh" feeling.

Look at the success of Path of Exile. A game based in a wholly new universe that came from a company with zero reputation. Path of Exile isn't perfect either.
Yes, I guess it's more than a minority. They were vocal, no matter what percentage of players disliked it. A lot of people bought it and played it. They many fell off. However many do still play.
 
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