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Thinking about making a HC Strafer, need some advice

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Milb, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    Thinking about making a HC Strafer, need some advice

    Hey,

    After finding a Windforce recently I really want to put it to use, rather than let it rot in a stash, so I need some advice before I go out and die and lose it forever!

    I have some decent IAS Gear but I need to know how important going from a 9/3 to a 9/2 strafe is, damage and safety wise.

    9/3 needs 80 IAS, and 9/2 120 IAS.

    For 9/3 I can use Shael WF, LoH and either Mavinas Diadem or Stealskull and Goldwrap - This leaves me with the Amulet space free which I can use for Atma's Scarab

    For 9/2 I'm a bit more restricted, Shael WF, LoH, Mavinas Diadem IAS Jewel, Cats Eye.

    Here are my questions:

    1)I would prefer to be able to use Atma's but would a 9/2 strafe be a lot better? If needed, I have a spare Reapers Toll which would remove Physical Immunities instead.

    2)Stat placement is also an issue for me, most Strafer builds seem to say base or 80-100 Vit, Str for eq and max dex. Would I be at a significant disadvantage if I only used used enough dex for equipment and put the rest in Vit?

    3) Skills?
    20 Strafe
    20 Penetrate
    20 Valk? Is using a Valk worth the DAE Bugs?
    Rest of the points?

    4) Would a Multishot zon be safer?

    Thanks for any help in advance :smiley:
    Milb
     
  2. Evah

    Evah IncGamers Member

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    i'm not a zon fan, but i did make several strafers. so here are my thoughts:

    1). max penetrate is not needed. i would stop at 15.
    2). strafer does not need huge lifeorb, she's ranged and she has 2 tanks. so i'd suggest dex over vita (but not dex instead of vita though) because you'll need every single point of damage.
    3). DAE-bug works, iirc, with Fend and Jab (not sure about Jab). Valk doesn't use these skills.
    4). 17+ lvl valk is a must. at this lvl she gets a rare tiara and rare lance.
    5). you deal high physical dmg, so i'd suggest several pts into Crit. to maximise dmg output you'll also need some pts into pierce.
    6). if you encounter a pack of something extremely deadly and quick and you see that the creatures will eat your merc and valk alive in no time, you'll find 1 pt Freezin' Arrow useful - freeze them and kill them)
    7). i'd suggest put all the rest into Decoy - it gives great life bonus to ur Valk, and can still be useful itself (see the situation in pt 6). and add Cold Immunes factor).
    8). afaik, multishooters are not viable in 1.10 - 1.11.
     
  3. Evah

    Evah IncGamers Member

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    also, get a Treachery armour: it has +45% ias and ctc Venom and Fade.
     
  4. Hp_Sauce

    Hp_Sauce IncGamers Member

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    Since you are playing HC I personly think that 80-100 Vit would be a mistake.

    Sure you have a Merc, and a Valk, and probably a Decoy to help you tank. However the 'stick' time on a strafer is fairly long in comparison to any other character. If a monster gets past your tanks in hell while you're 'stuck' it could spell 1-hit KO for you.

    I'm currently making a HC Strafer and am planning on just enough Str and Dex for my equipment (which will most likely be a WWS or Upped WWS), and then pooring the rest in Vitality. Life is so important in HC simply because more damage is useless if you're dead. Live first, then kill.

    If you do decide to go 80-100 Vit then I would recommend hitting the 9/2 breakpoint to reduce your 'stick' time so you can spend more time moving, which is safer.

    Move, stick, move, stick, move, stick, etc.

    Oh, and I like the Treachery idea for the IAS, but you wont be getting hit enough for Fade and Venom to go off. Or at least you shouldn't be getting hit enough. If you aren't RWM then it doesn't matter I suppose.

    -hps
     
  5. AJK

    AJK IncGamers Member

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    Lame, but useful trick: go stand in a small campfire/trap fire somewhere, and wait for the Fade to trigger. Then go shoot stuff.
     
  6. Evah

    Evah IncGamers Member

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    it does. Treachery is not a ladder rw, it's a SP 1.11 rw. and venom goes off on strikin' but not on being hit.
     
  7. Hp_Sauce

    Hp_Sauce IncGamers Member

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    I've used Treachery before and the above are all things I didn't notice, Oops! gg for me and not reading things before I opened my big mouth.

    Sorry
    -hps
     
  8. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    Evah: I like the idea of 1pt FA, I will do that, seeing as it will only cost me 2 skill points, also, I'm thinking max decoy too now.

    Hp: I was thinking about putting as much into Vita as possible, I was just wondering how much it would slow my killing speed down by.

    AJK: Seen that trick before, I watched someones Uber Trist run and they did that :smiley:

    About the Treachery, I didn't really want to use one for this build but there aren't many better armors for it that I have, I was planning on just using an armor with a pile of res (Vipermagi, Smoke, Gloom if I can find a Pul) but I may try it out. It would let me get to 120 IAS pretty easily too - Shael WF, Treachery, LoH and any Helm with a Fervor Jewel. This would leave a lot of item spaces for res and life too which would be good.
     
  9. linkato1

    linkato1 Banned

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    Can you elaborate on this. This is first time I see this mentioned.

    Topi
     
  10. Hp_Sauce

    Hp_Sauce IncGamers Member

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    Fair enough. It wont slow down your killing speed much at all. Certainly not enough to balance out the dance between living and deeds.

    -hps
     
  11. Mursilis

    Mursilis IncGamers Member

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    I think for the skill placement this will depend somewhat on your equipment. For example if you have the Razortail as your belt you won't need to max Pierce. Having one point in there with Razortail and +skills should give you almost 100% pierce.

    Maxing Decoy is fine, but not extremely necessary. I found in Hell with a 20 point Valkyrie (27 with +skills) she almost never died except from poison. That was with 1 point in Decoy. Granted this is HC and I play SC so you may want to max Decoy for an additional shield. However it's not necessary if you are going to use it only as a synergy to Valkyrie.
     
  12. salvo

    salvo IncGamers Member

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    In HC you can never have enough HP, more is always better, for sure I'll invest stats point only enough for gears. Yes your killing power is reduced this way but that's the way with HC, we have only one life here, no compromise about it.

    Gears:
    According to the IAS table on amazon forum we need 120%IAS to reach 9/2.
    Mavina's + 45%
    Windforce + Shael 40%
    LoH 20%
    That's 105%IAS, you can get the remaining 15% by socketing another IAS jewel to your favourite armor, that leaves you amulet slot for Atma's :thumbsup:
    Belt should be equiped with razortail, the 33% pierce is just too irresistable.
    Boots are Wartraveler for damage or any rare with good resist.

    Skill distribution on my preference:
    20 Strafe
    20 Valk
    20 penetrate, we're not dexazon
    Pierce: enough to nearly 100% including +33% razortail
    CS: until it reach a point where you don't like the diminishing return
    Decoy: rest

    Maxed and synergized Valk won't die fast even with the most nasty bosspack, knockback from WF also helpul for your tanks. PI need to wait Ampdmg triggers but once it happen they die soon.

    The only problem with this build is resistance, I found that the most important resist to have is Lite Res (gloam), you can fill the gap with charms. Make sure you wear Tgod when venturing WSK, I'd sacrafice the 33% pierce for survivability. Anything else should be easily dodged but be careful with CE uniques.

    Hope this is useful for your consideration. -sal
     
  13. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    Cheers sal, very informative post.

    I didn't consider putting a 15 IAS jewel in my armor as I thought I only had one, but after checking all my stashes I actually have two :smiley:

    I think I will be using a Tal's Armor now for the mf and excellent resists. I'm still a bit concerned about resists, but I have an excellent pair of boots to cover fire and lightning, so I think a +all res or +lightning res ring will cover me for max fire and light.

    Would this be a good ring to use or should I try and find one with life leech?

    Corruption Hold
    Ring
    Required Level: 66
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 86
    Fingerprint: 0x4f137633
    +20 to Strength
    +19 to Mana
    +79 to Attack Rating
    Lightning Resist +30%
    10% Faster Cast Rate
    10% Chance to cast Level 3 Nova when struck
     
  14. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    I'm currently up to lvl 40 at the Frigid Highlands WP, just equipped WWS and I'm having a blast! The strafer is a great build, I can't believe I hadn't built one sooner! :smiley:

    Few more questions now :tongue:

    Merc: Do I need a HF merc? I'm thinking between KB, a might merc, a Valk and a Decoy I shouldn't really need the slow, I also always have a cold sc in my stash for the chilling and FA if necessary.

    Bosses: Best way of taking them down? Just strafe them or is GA a more viable route, will my AR be enough to hit the Hell bosses with strafe?

    Mana Leech: Is this a non-issue when using a Windforce? Assuming all 10 arrows hit each time they each only need to leech about 1 mana to refill my bulb, hence the 7% I have will be plenty.

    Life Leech: This seems a bit more serious, at the moment I will have none from any slots apart from possibly 1 ring. Is this enough? Or do I have to try and squeeze some more in somewhere, possibly Blood Boots?

    Thanks in advance :smiley:
     
  15. AJK

    AJK IncGamers Member

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    My €0.02, but based on SC experience only, so please take it with a bit of hardcore salt.
    For damage, go Might. The amazon has no native damage-boosting skill like a Paladin's fanaticism, or barb's combat skills. I had my windforce strafe damage jump up 1k by using a mighty buddy.
    Since dying is not an option for you, the HF merc might still be worth considering.
    Go /players 1, boss fights suck hard enough as is. Maybe a Kelpie snare on the merc will slow the bosses down enough to allow you to strafe them down relatively safely. Another option might be stuffing the merc full with CB gear.
    My WWS strafer needed only 3-4% ML to keep the blue orb full. As you already said, it's a non-issue with a Windforce. *AJK pets his Windforce*
    Since the aim of the straferzon is not to get hit, refilling your red ball may happen at a slower pace. But then again, it's HC, so I'd say go for ~10%, if possible.
     
  16. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    I'm going to have to be the first to go against convention here. This is single player, i.e. lag is not a problem. A Strafer is forever scouting ahead and tossing out arrows from afar. If you make sure that your Merc and Valk are in position and maybe even cast a Decoy before starting a Strafe cycle, you really shouldn't get hit much if at all. On the realms, a no vit build is a bit risky to say the least, but on single player it's much more viable. I'd actually recommend going with as little vit as you can stomach (~100 sounds like a decent target, but this also depends on what kind of +life and resist charms you have access to) and dumping everything else into dex (300 extra dex works out to about 1.5k dmg at higher lvls).

    Here's my lvl ** ladder HC Strafer:

    Kira's (Um)
    Cat's Eye
    WF (Shael) / WWS on switch (Shael Nef)
    'Treachery' wire fleece
    LoH
    Razortail
    WarTravs
    Raven + rare LL/resists/dex

    Might Merc with as much +skills as I can get on him without making him useless. (He'd probably be better off with maxed resists and some Crushing Blow, but I simply haven't gotten around to trying that out yet.)

    20 Strafe
    1 FA
    20 Valk
    20 Penetrate
    1 Pierce
    a few in CritStrike, a couple in D/A/E
    rest in Multi (yes, Multi does have its uses, although it's not necessary)

    50 base vit
    enough str for gear
    rest in dex (I think it was at 427 last time I checked)


    I ended up with anywhere between ~800 and ~1k life depending on the charms I used. My resists were near maxed before Fade triggered (which it hardly ever did), but I still would not willingly enter Gloam-infested areas. If I had a spare TGod's I'd definitely throw it on her and take her just about anywhere.

    The WWS I use on switch for phys immunes. I use normal attack (which is actually slvl 20 Magic Arrow) to peck away at them until amp triggers, then switch to Strafe with WF to finish them off.

    Overall I was very pleased with her considering all the bad press Bowazons were getting at the time I made her. She got to lvl ** just doing Choas Sanc clears, plus she looks damn sexy with her tiara and wire fleece. Not that I'm necessarily suggesting that you copy this build, just throwing out some ideas and letting you know that a low- or no-vit build can actually work.
     
  17. Hp_Sauce

    Hp_Sauce IncGamers Member

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    Your foolishness makes me grin!

    Leave it to you pt to defy all that is right and logical in the world! :banghead:

    -hps
     
  18. Fluffballer

    Fluffballer IncGamers Member

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    For what it's worth, Multishot is perfectly viable in 1.11, and a pretty quick killer as well since you're damaging everything within 2 screens of your character at rapid pace. I used a GSA, Tal's mask, and Goldskin, so it's not like you need good equipment to do it. That also makes a good pit runner.
     
  19. Serdash

    Serdash IncGamers Member

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    1) Use a Reaper's Toll and shoot for a 10/3 strafe. I know, you're thinking "OH GOD IT'S SLOW!" but you don't need anything more than that. Having a merc to tank with that strafe speed and Reaper's Slowing things down will be perfect. This allows you to free up IAS gear for more survivability gear.
    2) You don't need max dex, the damage it provides is worthless. Gogo Vitality.
    3) You don't need 20 in strafe, even with the damage windforce does the added damage doesn't make up that much for the penalty. While I do say that maxing it could be potentially a good idea, it should be the last thing you go for. Try 8-10 points at first just so you can get the 11 maximum shots. 20 Penetrate sounds good, if you REALLY think that you'll need it, 20 Valk would be useful as well, but it's not always needed. You may want to consider a different skill such as LF or a Partially synergized Charged Strike, maybe even a fully Synergized FA as a backup. Either way make sure you're not trying to rely 100% on strafe to kill, else you might find yourself waiting a while.
    4) No.
     
  20. Norcim105

    Norcim105 IncGamers Member

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    Personally I would swap the Mavs helm for a delirium tiara. The chance to cast confuse on striking is just amazing for quick attacking skills like strafe and will make you a mean buffer for protection. The +2 skills is just gravy. I would make up the lost ias by going with a treachery (i believe I saw that you were rwm), the venom adds extra damage meaning more points in vit instead of dex and you could just stand over a fire to activate fade as has been mentioned. For HC confuse just rules.
     

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