The world doesn't belong to us.

PublicEnemy

Diabloii.Net Member
The world doesn't belong to us.

Man has been created by Mother Nature .
Mankind belongs to planet Earth . We are a part of Mother Nature , we belong to it , just like other animals . Who/what belongs to something can't own it at the same time .
When someone builds a house , he owns it because it was built by him . Someone else who enters his house and then leaves it is just a visitor . Someone who wants to live in it , is just the tenant of the owner of this house .
The same logic applies for Mankind . Planet Earth is a kind of house in which we were created . We are just tenants of planet Earth , thus we can't claim what is not ours , because we have not created this planet . Hence the existence of countries is not morally right because it implies ownership of land .

However , Man has thought that he could own Earth instead of just being a part of it . Then he has created ownership of land . He has appropriated mainly by force what has never belonged to him . Why ? Cupidity , selfishness , conceit .
The only people who deserve this Earth are those who don't own it .Those who are nomads and consider themselves as being of a part of a whole , those who have not created boundaries , are the only people who deserve to live on it . Indians of America are one of these peoples .
 

mhl12

Diabloii.Net Member
have you been reading romantic poetry?

because that's exactly what i'm doing in english class right now and its all about the world and stuff
 

PublicEnemy

Diabloii.Net Member
mhl12 said:
have you been reading romantic poetry?

because that's exactly what i'm doing in english class right now and its all about the world and stuff
No I haven't .
What are you doing exactly in your english class ?
Please expand .
 

Dj_Otaku

Diabloii.Net Member
PublicEnemy said:
Man has been created by Mother Nature .
Your argument really lost credibility in my eyes right there. Also, who says man cannot own a piece of land eh? Did 'Mother Nature' speak to you in a dream telling you that you cannot own 'her' land? I believe whoever is the superior species on the planet should rule and govern however they want too, even if it leads us to destruction.

Dj_Otaku
 

PublicEnemy

Diabloii.Net Member
Dj_Otaku said:
Your argument really lost credibility in my eyes right there. Also, who says man cannot own a piece of land eh? Did 'Mother Nature' speak to you in a dream telling you that you cannot own 'her' land? I believe whoever is the superior species on the planet should rule and govern however they want too, even if it leads us to destruction.

Dj_Otaku
All right .
Therefore I can go into your house and kill you . And then I can claim your house to be mine because I used my superiority (strength in that case ) to appropriate what was not mine at the beginning . So , I rule/govern your house . Is that right ? You would say no . However you answer 'yes' in the case of planet Earth , whereas it is the same kind of argument .
Indians were killed by European/American people . I guess that you would agree that they were right to genocide them because they were the 'superior' ones .
 
Mother Nature is a pretty weak construct, because it's essentially a goofy personified metaphor for nature itself. So take the word mother out and get over it. Even if you're an evolutionist, man still came from nature, it was just gradual rather than instantaneous.
 

Steel_Avatar

Diabloii.Net Member
IDupedInMyPants said:
Mother Nature is a pretty weak construct, because it's essentially a goofy personified metaphor for nature itself. So take the word mother out and get over it. Even if you're an evolutionist, man still came from nature, it was just gradual rather than instantaneous.
Granted.

But that still doesn't explain why private ownership is wrong.
 

PublicEnemy

Diabloii.Net Member
Steel_Avatar said:
Mother Nature is as much a human construct as any other belief system.
It is not a human construct . Nature exists by itself .

If you mean that 'Mother nature' is not the right expression , then where does Man come from ? He comes from Nature . He comes from apes . Apes are a part of Nature . Therefore his mother is ' Mother nature ' .
 

Steel_Avatar

Diabloii.Net Member
Nature does exist as itself. It is a group term referring to any manner of flora, fauna, and what have yous. But Mother Nature is a construct, commonly used to personify Nature, such that one can draw a specious argument from it.

Your argument is an example. We may come from Nature, but that certainly isn't a good reason as to why we cannot claim ownership over something that is not sentient or even mildly aware.
 

Lostprophet

Diabloii.Net Member
Rhetoric can't raise the dead.

That said, possession appears to be, if nothing else, an ingrained human desire. The existence of peaceful communes points to a certain ability of humans to ignore this drive, but problems have historically tended to arise when attempting to impose this on a larger scale, mainly because the people who tend to impose it aren't really trying to solve anything by it, but rather actually gain more possession. Cohesive point, you ask? None really. It is good that you've become so convicted, though.

Dj_Otaku said:
I believe whoever is the superior species on the planet should rule and govern however they want too, even if it leads us to destruction.
It's sickening, the things we do to preserve our precious realism.
 

PublicEnemy

Diabloii.Net Member
Steel_Avatar said:
We may come from Nature, but that certainly isn't a good reason as to why we cannot claim ownership over something that is not sentient or even mildly aware.
Read again ....
PublicEnemy said:
When someone builds a house , he owns it because it was built by him . Someone else who enters his house and then leaves it is just a visitor . Someone who wants to live in it , is just the tenant of the owner of this house .
The same logic applies for Mankind . Planet Earth is a kind of house in which we were created . We are just tenants of planet Earth , thus we can't claim what is not ours , because we have not created this planet .
 

Steel_Avatar

Diabloii.Net Member
Then allow me to be extraordinarily crass:

He owns it because the law says he does, and there are people to stop me from taking it from him.

Who stops me from claiming a parcel of land from the Earth?
 

PublicEnemy

Diabloii.Net Member
Steel_Avatar said:
Then allow me to be extraordinarily crass:

He owns it because the law says he does, and there are people to stop me from taking it from him.

Who stops me from claiming a parcel of land from the Earth?
Who stops Man from claiming land ? Nobody .
However , Man will destroy himself by destroying Nature . Not respecting Nature will eradicate Mankind .
Then when Mankind has disappeared , Nature will reassert itself . It will be a kind of revenge of Nature against Man for not respecting it .
 
PublicEnemy said:
Who stops Man from claiming land ? Nobody .
However , Man will destroy himself by destroying Nature . Not respecting Nature will eradicate Mankind .
Then when Mankind has disappeared , Nature will reassert itself . It will be a kind of revenge of Nature against Man for not respecting it .
Or maybe the Earth's core will stop spinning in about a thousand years turning Earth into a hotter version of Mars. Life won't be here, nature won't reassert.

Or a gigantic super volcano will blow and the Earth will go dark for a few hundred years making the oceans acidic.

The sun might explode completely evaporating the Earth.

An asteroid could hit the Earth breaking it apart.

Nature isn't some indestructible unstoppable juggernaut, things can kill nature. If you want to be really picky nature can kill nature. Man can't do any of the things listed above, nature can and does.
 

Steel_Avatar

Diabloii.Net Member
PublicEnemy said:
Who stops Man from claiming land ? Nobody .
However , Man will destroy himself by destroying Nature . Not respecting Nature will eradicate Mankind .
Then when Mankind has disappeared , Nature will reassert itself . It will be a kind of revenge of Nature against Man for not respecting it .
My planting a flag in the ground, or say, shooting a rifle, or reading a proclamation claiming this land in the name of the Queen hardly qualifies as destroying Nature.

Nor so does building a house. We've been at it for centuries; Earth seems to be doing okay. Sure we screwed up some along the way, but we're working on it.
 

ASL

Diabloii.Net Member
PublicEnemy said:
Who stops Man from claiming land ? Nobody .
However , Man will destroy himself by destroying Nature . Not respecting Nature will eradicate Mankind .
Then when Mankind has disappeared , Nature will reassert itself . It will be a kind of revenge of Nature against Man for not respecting it .
Ug. Nature is beautiful, nature is great, blah blah bla. CRAP!

I'd like to see you live in the modern world, with 6 billion people all vying for food without the concept of property. It may have worked great for the Indians because they had a whole s*** load of land and a disproportionately small population, but nowadays it doesn't work that way. You want to know who was really abusing the land? Those frickin' Indians. That's right. A model of inefficiency. Nomads can sustain a population of a few hundred thousand, maybe a few million, in the same space of land that a sttationary agricultural society can sustain hundreds of millions. Oh god, don't get me started on nomads... They're so damn insistant that you can't own land? Well then good, that means we have as much right to it as they do, the difference is we can do more with it. You don't think Indians were warring with each other long before the white man got here? You don't think they fought over resources and territory? Well then you need to get your head out of your a**. They fought each other for dominance, and then Europeans came along and continued the tradition. The only thing that was unusual and unprecedented about it was the weaponry.

Anyways, how do you propose we get people to be a part of an efficient stationary society if they can't be guarenteed that once they set up shop/plant crops/build a shelter that someone else won't come along and take it by force? Nature is not a sentient being. It does not feel pain. The things that make up nature might, but nature itself does not. Why should we put the interest of something that can feel no pain, that isn't even a thing in so much as it's a concept above the interests of people?

You compared taking land to stealing someones possessions. Well guess what, nature doesn't own s***. Nature is material, not some sort of mystical sentient gog-like force. It is the ability to own land that makes laws against things like stealing possible. If we didn't believe in ownership of the land, then there could be now law against theft since no one would have a right to own anything. Anyone could come along and take it.

And last, but not least... You love nature so much? Well, man is as much a product of nature as any other animal. Think that termite mound is beautiful? Well, what's it got over a skyscraper??? We built it, just like good little termites.

Nature will reassert itself? Well, ****, if it's out to get me, then why would I be nice to it in the first place?
 
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