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The Stone of Jordan Magic Find Guide by Igor Potapov

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by igorpotapov, Mar 3, 2004.

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  1. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    The Stone of Jordan Magic Find Guide by Igor Potapov

    The Stone of Jordan Magic Find Guide by Igor Potapov​


    Introduction

    Everyone wants SOJ. It has high trade value. And everyone ask the question about SOJ finding at least once. Many forums overfilled with the same question, how to find soj. May be it is time to sticky some guide or FAQ about soj?
    There are many guides about MF, but they are too long together, too comprehensive and most of them don’t cover 1.10 aspects. In this guide all information available about this question was combined and adopted to soj. Read it if you want to get SOJ, it holds many information about it. All facts must be correct for 1.10, and there are no rumors and myths there. Many peoples tried to test all information about item searching, and did uncounted amount Andy runs and find uncounted amount of SOJs from she, and all facts, held here must be correct.
    This guide possible has too many grammar, stile and punctuation errors, sorry. Please report about any kind of error by PM or e-mail [email protected].
    You can find all abbreviations at the end of this guide.

    What is SOJ and why it is so popular?

    SOJ is The Stone of Jordan unique ring. Many people agree that it is the best ring for any caster. Its properties are: +1 to all skill levels, increase maximum mana by 25%, adds 1-12 lightning damage, +20 mana, character level 29 required. Qlvl=39. Rarity=1.
    SOJ are tradable everywhere to sell or to buy, and it costs quite a bit. If you want to become rich in new diablo economy (at ladder, at hardcore and etc.) get few SOJs.

    How can I get one?

    You can find it by many ways. This is the rating of them from most quick to least.
    1. E-bay.
    2. Trade channels, forums...
    3. Nightmare Andariel, Normal Diablo.
    4. Nightmare Mephisto, Normal Baal, Nightmare Council.
    5. Lvl85 monsters, like those in The Pit. Find something really good, and then trade it for SOJ.
    6. Other act bosses in nightmare and hell.
    7. Any monster in game in nightmare and hell with level higher than 38.
    8. Any chest or corpse or rock or something in nightmare and hell. Gambling.

    If you rich enough in real life or in realm go to e-bay or trade rooms. If you too boring from NM Andy runs go to that place, where you have most fun in game, pit, meph, pindle, Baal &co. If you have enough patience, you will have SOJ, and nothing else matter.

    SOJ Trade Prices

    This paragraph included here only for comparing. This is not exact prices, they depend on many things – realm, ladder/nonladder, hardcore/softcore, D2C/D2LOD…

    E-Bay, ladder, USEast: The price now is about 5$-10$. Check www.ebay.com for exact value.
    Europe Realm, Non Ladder: 1 SOJ = 55 Perfect Gems or 1-2 Harlequin Crests.
    Europe Realm, Ladder: 1 SOJ = 1 High Rune, like Ber, Jah…
    Single Player: Invaluable! If you are not hacker, not trade by Open BattleNet and not play by LAN with lots of peoples, of cause.

    And remember, if you buy items instead of find them, then MAY BE YOU:
    - buy duped items that can disappear at any moment;
    - lose fun of finding those items;
    - lose respect of peoples, that find these items by self;
    - lose your time by reading such guides.
    Sorry, no offense. Do what you want, if it makes you happy.

    SOJ in Single Player

    In old D2C was different type of item generation process. This is quote from diabloii.net:
    If you plane to start new SP character, uninstall your D2LOD and install D2C 1.00. Start new character and level him to about lvl50 as you plane. After that start doing NM Mephisto runs. You will find Nagel, wear it, then Manald, wear it to, and after that SOJ! Sell all found items and gamble. After you find soj you can install d2exp and convert your character to it. You can also find The Eye of Etlich by the same method. Only thing, that can intercept this in 1.10 dupe detecting mechanism, it can destroy you D2C legit item. That’s why this theory needs testing.

    What affect SOJ drop and what aren’t?

    When you kill monster or open chest game pass throw following process.
    1. Check for No drop. Monster or chest can not reword you at all. You can resist this by increasing number of players in game ONLY. Go to 8ppl game or /players8 in SP. Act bosses, normal monsters, chests affect by this. Normal bosses, super uniques and champions drop fixed amount of items and not depend on number of players. Only number of players in game and monster type can affect No Drop, nothing else.
    2. If game decides to reward you with item, it chose item type – ring, amulet, rune, gem, war hat or something else. Monster drops determines ONLY by monster type. The same for chests. More about item types in next chapter, Mlvl and Qlvl.
    3. Next step – item quality determination. Item quality is the color of its name in simple wards. :) This process affect by two factors only – type of monster and “+chance to find magic items†players value. +MF value works ONLY on this step.
    4. If game decides to drop set or unique item, but there are several types of that item, like several unique phase blades, game pick one item according to rarity. Nothing else affects this process, not even monster type. You will read about rarity later.

    Mlvl and Qlvl

    Mlvl is Monster level, Qlvl is Item Quality level. They are fixed numbers, constants in game files. You can check it by yourself with reading *.mpq files with mpqview program. Monster can drop any item in game, if Qlvl of that item is less or equal then Mlvl, and Mlvl is not less then Qlvl of base item type. Mlvl of NM Andy is 49. Mlvl of Normal Diablo is 40. SOJ’s Qlvl is 39. Dwarf Star’s Qlvl is 53. Manald Heal’s Qlvl is 20. Nagel Ring’s Qlvl is 10.
    Some items, not rings and amulets, have high Qlvl of base item, but low Qlvl of item itself. Lets look for example on set armor Tal Rash’s Guardianship. It is set lacquered plate. The Qlvl of all items in this set is 26. All level 26 monsters can drop items from this set, include armor, but they don’t drop nothing, except amulet. Why? Qlvl of lacquered plate is 82, too high for 26lvl monsters; even hell Mephisto can’t drop it.

    Best SOJ drop monsters

    Act bosses drop up to 6 items per run and they always drop 6 items in 8 players game. Act bosses have more chances of dropping unique items. Bosses, that can drop SOJ, but can’t drop other rings except Nagel and Manald, are only Normal Diablo and Nightmare Andariel. Normal Mephisto can’t drop SOJ, and Nightmare Mephisto and Normal Baal can drop Dwarf and Raven, cutting off you chances of SOJ. Normal Diablo run take more time, than NM Andy run, but your resists higher and it is not so boring. Choose your target yourself, if you want, but most peoples suggest NM Andy, if you ask. Why?
    Andariel has best ring and amulet drop chances.
    Andariel has quest drop bug in 1.10. She do quest drop not only at fist kill. Its exact mechanism is unknown, but bug is evident. You may be don’t like use game bugs very much, but what you can do if you complete all act 1 quests? Quest drops are no gold, scrolls, arrows, bolts and other junk and only unique, set or rare items. If item can’t be set (like blade knife) it drops as magic with 2*normal durability. Complete all act1 quests and you will see it, if this bug is not fixed jet in realm.
    How about hell Andy? She has the best ring drop chance in game, but she can drop 7 kinds of urings instead of 3. Hell Andy’s Mlvl=75.
    How about Travincal? Council Members drop rings almost as often as Andy, but at Normal they can’t drop SOJ, and in Nightmare they drop Ravens and Dwarfs.

    What good items are droppable from Nightmare Andariel?

    Not only SOJ. During your Andy runs you will find many good items. If you don’t need them, start new mule and transfer all good items to him. Then you can present these items to some noob and make new friend! Collect some items and drop them in the same ‘Give free Itams’ game, it may be very fun!
    Bosses in Andy’s room also can drop good items! And you don’t need to kill them!
    The list of good items from NM Andy&CO (without order):
    SOJ.
    Tal Rasha’s Adjudication.
    Tal’s belt.
    ANY NORMAL SET! So you can collect good normal set and present it to friend for twinking. Collect, for example, Arcana’s Tricks full set for fun, it has damn rare amulet.
    ANY NORMAL UNIQUE ITEM! Present Gull, Chance Guards, Tarnhelm, Goldwrap, 2xNagel, Tancred’s Amulet+Boots and Milabrega’s orb to mf maniac for twinking and he buy you beer. :)
    Hi end normal items (really used by >90lvl characters now days): Frostburn, Magefist, Goldwrap, Chance Guards, Nagelring, Angelic rings and amulet (for AR), Sanders boots, Cleglaw’s gloves.
    Hi end exceptional items: Skin of vipermagi, ShaftStop, String of Ears, Razortail, Gloom’s trap, Waterwalk, Silkweave, Kuko Shakaku, Rockstoper, Visceratuant, Trang Oul’s gloves, Natalia’s boots, M’avina’s belt, Immortal King’s helm, Aldur’s mace.
    Runes up to Ko.
    Small charms with: +5% all resistances, +7% MF, +20 life, +17 mana, good poison damage.
    Large charms with: +8% all resistances, +5 strength, +5 dexterity, +25 life, +34 mana, good poison damage.
    Grand charms with: +15% all resistances, +100 defense, +35 life, +59 mana, good poison damage.
    Jewels with: +15% all resistances, up to +17% mf, damage +40%, +9 stats, +15% IAS, -15% Requirements, resist to one element +30%.
    After all Andy quite often drop flawless gems. Collect perfect ones for trading.

    Rarity

    Any item in game has rarity property, that determine it’s ..., it’s ..., well, it’s rarity! Item with more rarity are more common that another item with same type (like ring or amulet or Sacred Armor for ex) but smaller rarity. SOJ Rarity is 1. Nagel’s rarity is 15. So approximately you find 1 soj for 15 Nagels. But you may find soj first, then for ex 14 Nagels, then another soj. Or you may find only 1 Nagel between 2 SOJ, or even 100. It is luck. But if you find 100 unique rings from NM Andy, then you find approx 3 SOJ, 49 Nagels and 48 Manalds, +-2.

    How much MF?

    More MF is always better, but more mf leads to less +skill, damage, +life, mana, resistances and other good mods. For example you play 3 hour per day. During this time you may do for example 150 NM Andy runs with +damage+defense+200MF equipment or 75 runs with +400MF equipment with poor resists, chance to block, defense, MDR, PDR and other. What is better? Balance equipment with 200%MF is better. Test it by yourself, with 200%MF and with 400%MF you find about the same amount of unique items, but with 0%MF you will find about half that amount of unique items, and to get statistically correct numbers you must do many runs, at least 200 or more.
    This is mf effectiveness table by Jarulf for 1.09, which can explain something:
    Code:
    +MF wearing          real +chance to find unique items
      0                           0
    100                         100
    150                         141
    200                         171
    250                         191
    300                         211
    400                         236
    500                         253
    750                         280
    1000                        295
    This is quote from MF FAQ:
    Since Magic Find has diminishing returns, is 110% the best?
    No, the more MF you have the better, always, in terms of getting higher quality items. 1000% will find more Uniques, over time, than 900%, and far more than 300% or 200%. The balance comes in how long it takes you. If you can do an item finding run in 10 minutes with 1000% MF, and the same run in 3 minutes with 500% MF, it's probably better to go faster, since you could do the same run 3x, which would be better odds for good equipment over all.
    End of quote.

    So, bottom line, 200-300%MF is enough, if its increase sacrifices speed.

    Same unique in one game drop effect

    One unique item cannot drop more then once in the same game. It is mean, that if you find Nagel, for ex, from someone in game, then the probability to find SOJ in that game greatly increases. Go to another mf places in that game and check your luck, may be even kill all act1 monsters!
    It is VERY hard to test this game feature! Two times Andy dropped double unique rings for author of this text! One time it was Nagel and Manald, but second it was Nagel and ... Yes it was SOJ!
    Theoretically, if you find three unique rings in one game from monsters from Mlvl 39 to Mlvl 52, then you will sure to find Manald, Nagel and SOJ.

    Theory of probability short theorems

    If mathematic make you mad, skip this paragraph, it is not necessary for soj finding, but if you like it – welcome.
    Here you find some mathematic theory about SOJ finding.
    If you find one unique ring, what is your chance of SOJ? If you find two unique rings (in different games), what is your chance to find SOJ? How about 10 rings? How many unique rings must you find to engage SOJ drop? You will find answers to these questions here.
    The chances of soj determines by its rarity. SOJ’s rarity is 1. Nagels rarity is 15. Manalds rarity is 15. If you kill monster that can drop this and only this rings (like NM Andy), and he drop unique ring, that the soj probability is 1 of 31. 31 is 1+15+15. Luck Chance=1:31=3.22%. Probability of this ring NOT to be SOJ (unLuck) are 30:31. unLuckChance=30:31=96.78%=1-LuckChance. And for 31 unique rings chance must be100%, you ask? NOT quite.
    What is the probability? Probability is ratio of number of luck situations to number of all situations. For example if we drop game dice, then probability of 6 dots drop are 1 to 6, because of 6 variants of all drops and 1 variant of luck – drop of 6 dots. Probability of one side of coin is 1 to 2. Soj probability is 1 to 31 for NM Andy and 1 to 59 for unique ring from Hell Devilkin (pit run).
    Let’s drop dice two times. What is probability to “find†6? It is too complicated! Lets find probability of unluck and subtract it from 1. Luck chance plus unluck chance always give 1. If you drop dice, you can find 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5. We not count 6 as we count unluck chances now. 5 variants of 6, unluck chance of one drop is 5:6, luck chance is 1-5:6=1:6. For every unlucky variant for first drop there is same amount of variants on second drop. Total all variants is 6*6, total bad variants is 5*5, and total chance of unluck was 5*5:6*6 or (5:6)*(5:6) or (5:6)^2 or (5:6)^N, where N – number of drops.
    If chance of not drop for one try is A, then chance of not drop for N trials is A in power of N – A^N.
    If chance to find something after one try is X, then chance to find something for N trials is 1-(1-X)^N.
    May be it sounds crazy, but you can test this theory! :)
    Heads or tails test. ;) Call it side1 and side2. If you drop coin one time, then the chance of side2 is 0.5. If you drop coin two times, then chance of side2 drop is 0.75 (1-0.5*0.5). Do 10 tests of double drops of coin and side2 will drop at least ones 7 times. May be not exact 7, because of too bad statistic for only 10 trials, but you will get the idea!
    Dice test. :) Drop game dice 6 times. Chances of 6-dots drop are 66.5% (1-(1-1:6)^6). Do ten tests. You will find 6-dots side about in 6 or 7 of 10 tests. 4 or 3 tests will by unlucky.
    SOJ test! :) If you find 1 unique ring from Mlvl=49 monster (NM Andy), your chance is 3.2% (1:31). If you find 2 unique rings, your chance is 6.3% (1-(1-1:31)^2). For 31 rings your chase is 63.8% (more then fifty/fifty :).
    How many times you must try to find something? Solve equation y=1-(1-x)^N for N: N=log(1-y,1-x). It means logarithm of (1-y) with base of (1-x) or ln(1-y)/ln(1-x). N – number of trials, x – chance after 1 drop, y – chance after N drops, ln – natural logarithm function.

    Code:
    Unique Rings Found	Chance to find soj, %
    1	                        3.23
    2	                        6.35
    10	                        27.96
    21	                        49.77
    31	                        63.81
    50	                        80.59
    100	                        96.23
    141	                        99.02
    150	                        99.27
    TO FIND SOJ YOU MUST GET 141 UNIQUE RINGS FROM NM ANDY! After that you luck chance will be more then 99%.

    SOJ drop chance for NM Andariel

    SOJ drop chance for one NM Andy kill is 0.047% for 8ppl game with +200%MF and 0.062% with +500%MF. After 1500 runs you will have 50% chance to find soj.

    According to d2data drop chance for any ring is 1.35084428% for NM Andy quest drop (1st kill). In 8ppl game she drops 6 items. According to Jarulf in 1.10 Act Bosses with quest drop has about 18% chance to drop unique item with +200%MF (22% at +500%MF). Soj chance for one uring is 3,23%. Total 0.047%. Mjan’s D2X Drop Calculator for 1.09 version gives 0.0387% for 8ppl. Diablo II: LoD Drop Calculator by Hammerman gives 0.025%, it calculates only solo game chances. Adopted Mjan’s D2X Drop Calculator for 1.09 version with data files from version 1.10 give 0.04798% for 8ppl.
    Here is quote of Usufruct, all grammar saved:

    How many MF runs?

    Killing about 2000-3000 Andariels virtually guaranty soj drop. But you can have luck to find soj only on after 100 runs.
    It is all about luck. You really can find 2*SOJ and Tal’s amulet from NM Andy after about 2000-3000 runs. But you can find another soj from nm meph after only about 500 runs, so it is luck. But if you really want to find soj as fast as possible kill nm Andy until she drop it, and she will drop it, no doubt! However be ready to find 1-60 junk unique rings before soj.

    Good build for SOJ MF

    If you want to become soj-runner, you select right way to become rich. Good char for NM Andy run are fire sorc. Teleport and –50% Andariel’s fire resistance win the race. You can use fireball or meteor, depend on your taste, may be hydra or firewall or inferno works too, but fireball works really cool!
    Typically pure fire sorc build are: max firebolt, fireball, meteor and fire mastery. 1 point in teleport, static and warmth as usual. Will be ended at Lvl 76-80. Strength for items, typically from 50 to 150. Dexterity for max block, typically about 200. Rest in vitality. Base energy. One pare of Frostburns as usable for you as many points in energy. Got some mana charms and rings at least, if you really want mana at the beginning. With base energy, 1 base point in warmth, 2xSOJ, and magefists later you will spam fireballs unstoppable.
    Level her to lvl80 and go to NM Meph to find some good items, than go to infinite NM Andy runs.

    The Best Cheap Equipment for SOJ MF

    The goal of equipment is to achieve maximum possible MF and not lose in speed. Wear the best items to your char, which you have, and try getting as much faster run/walk, faster casting rate and best damage as possible. Your must do MF run as fast as possible. This is the way of finding more items. Then you must wear as much MF as possible, no less then +200%, but not sacrifice speed and defense (resist, chance to block and other). It is hard, but possible. If you do mf run in 60 sec. with your damage equipment and with +400%mf equipment you do it in 70 sec, you done all right. If you do mf run in 60 sec. with your equipment with 300%mf and with 400%mf equipment you do it by 120 sec, you are mistaking self, and you find less good items after several hours, than with fist equipment. But don’t listen to anyone if you have more fun in game with your slow but 400% equip, just remember the facts.
    Many peoples suggest having not less then 63%FCR for fast and safety traveling throw any area with teleport for sorcs.
    For fire sorc I can suggest this setup. It is cheap and quite effective. All this items can be found from NM Meph. You don’t need uber items like Isted Shako, but it is cool, of cause. And if you are rich for cool items, why not to trade them for SOJ?
    Helm – Tal Rasha’s helm with 2 another pieces, Tarnhelm, 3Topaz Helm, Peasant Crown.
    Amour – Skullders, 4Topaz, Viperskin.
    Amulet – Eye of Etlich, Tancred’s with boots, any with life or resists or skill.
    Belt – Tal’s with 2 another pieces, or defensive like glooms or nightsmoke or even death’s with gloves. Goldwrap is too bad, 30%mf is near unusable at all, but possible.
    Boots – Tancred’s with amulet or any 40%r/w. Don’t use slow boots like wartrevellers. They are very good, but for mf they are too bad even with 50% mf, it is not as rewarding as 40%r/w. Sigon’s boots with shield and belt are playable for noob, but 50%mf are too low.
    Charms – resists, life, mana. 7% mf make my laugh, but 100% or more total mf from charms are respectable but is not cheap.
    Gloves – Magefists or Frostburns ONLY, they are too good for casters. Forget about chance guards, they are poor with 40%mf. You can get good mf with chance guard, goldwrap, wartrewellers, 2xNagels and other poor mf items, but you lose in speed too much.
    Rings – 2xManalds give good mana and life regen, 2x perfect Nagels gives 60%mf and good MDR, you decide. At least get rings with mana, life or resists. Angelic 2x rings + amulet + weapon are very good for beginners. 2xSOJ are uber mega ultra rings for elite players, but we don’t have they and want to find, aren’t we? :)
    Shield – Any 3D, 2D Mother’s, 1DVisceratount, Rhyme. Nothing compare with them. Storm is the best, but we talk about cheap equipment, right? :)
    Weapon – Oculus, Gull, Ali Baba, Tal’s with 2 other pieces. Item with Skills like Culwin’s at least.
    Crafted items – rings, amulets, gloves and boots can be very cool, but it is not cheap. For ex: 25%mf, some max mana, some mana, some resists, some mana regen, 30%r/w and may be some other mods crafted boots.

    Remember, if you increase you mf from 200% to 1000%, you get only 124% more real chance to find unique items (Jarulf’s information). So 30% more mf is nothing at all. With 200% you have +171% chances to find unique items. That’s why peoples suggest only about 200-300% mf and no more and no least.

    Tal Rasha’s Adjudication

    All that said here about soj are true for Tal’s amulet. The best monster for it is again NM Andy with probability of 0.038% per run solo with 200%MF. Check all found set amulets!

    Abbreviations

    SOJ – The Stone of Jordan.
    FAQ – frequently asked questions.
    MF – magic find.
    PM – private message.
    Qlvl – quality level.
    Mlvl – monster level.
    Lvl – level.
    Andy – AKA Andariel.
    D2C, D2 – Diablo II Classic.
    D2LOD, D2X – Diablo II Lord of Destruction.
    LAN – local area network.
    SP – single player.
    NM – nightmare.
    8ppl, 1ppl – 8 player’s game.
    Uring – unique ring.
    Noob – novice.
    IAS – increased attack speed.
    Ex – example.
    MDR – magic damage reduction.
    PDR – Physical damage reduction.
    Sorc – Sorceress.
    Uber – the best.

    Thanks

    Most facts in this guide are discoverers, done by many different peoples. Thanks to all, who not save their time and research D2 features. Uncountable number. Jarulf, GFrather, Flux, Kleefstra and all writers and readers of diabloii forums!
    Happy SOJ finding!
    Igor Potapov.​
     
  2. Dork

    Dork IncGamers Member

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    I will vote later

    Wow! There is a lot of information to go thru'. But i will not vote now. I will be busy doing andy for the next few days. I will vote base on numbr of SOJ I find :thumbsup:

    THANKS.
     
  3. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    Number of soj, you will find, not depend on this guide. It is not magic. Your sojs depends only on you efforts to find them. But if you have already read this text you have already taken another step to it. ;)
     
  4. Herald of Doom

    Herald of Doom IncGamers Member

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    It's not really recommended to advertise eBay as the nr1 way of getting a soj. Everything else seems accurate, although I only quickly browsed the text. NM andy has highest drop chance, but I'd say doing Hell Meph runs will get you a LOT more value for your runs. My friend did about 200 andy runs, nothing. 50 Hell meph runs got him a near perfect Azurewrath and a shako.
     
  5. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    I don't suggest use ebay, I suggest NOT to use ebay, that’s why I wrote this guide. But ebay don’t listen to us and is the fastest way to get soj, we can do nothing with this.

    As for Meph… Reread “The Best Soj Drop Monsters†section please. In addition to it I may be include “Andy vs Meph†section :) in second edition of this guide, if it will come with help of all repliers, like you. Thanks.
     
  6. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    Here we go...

    1.00 was horribly bugged, 1.06b is much better. It can still be found on the Blizzard FTP.

    Typo :)


    The description is a little vague and the typos are annoying as well. Monster drops are affected by type (ranged, melee, caster, etc), and some monsters, mostly Bosses and Superuniques have special treasureclasses.

    Monster type is in this case normal, champions, (super)uniques and bosses.

    It picks one according to rarity and Qlvl, if the Qlvl of an item is lower than the Mlvl, it's rarity won't be added to the total rarity and it can't spawn.

    Qlvl is in this case only the Qlvl for uniques and sets.
    The Mlvl does not have to be higher than the Qlvl of the base item, eg. Mlvl 83 monsters can drop TC87 (base) items, and thus items with Qlvl 84 or higher.

    Lacquered Plate is Qlvl 82, and is in TC84. Hell meph drops up to TC78, that's the only reason he can't drop it. Mlvl has an influence on TCs in hell for non-boss and superunique bosses, and Qlvl determines the in which TC the item is placed, but for the rest Mlvl and Qlvl have nothing to with eachother.

    AARGH!! Those typos are driving me crazy!

    The exact mechanism is known:
    When you first kill her she drops from her quest TC, 2 additional chipped gems and a normal gem.
    If you would leave game and kill her again without talking to NPCs she drops from her normal TC.
    If you would talk to a NPC and thus completing the quest, she'll revert back to her quest TC.

    How much MF?

    More MF is always better, but more mf leads to less +skill, damage, +life, mana, resistances and other good mods. For example you play 3 hour per day. During this time you may do for example 150 NM Andy runs with +damage+defense+200MF equipment or 75 runs with +400MF equipment with poor resists, chance to block, defense, MDR, PDR and other. What is better? Balance equipment with 200%MF is better. Test it by yourself, with 200%MF and with 400%MF you find about the same amount of unique items, but with 0%MF you will find about half that amount of unique items, and to get statistically correct numbers you must do many runs, at least 200 or more.[/quote]
    With more MF% you'll always find more unique items.

    Indeed, it's a 1.09 quote, MF% has changed. Search for a couple of posts by Thrugg for more information.

    Please fix those typos...
     
  7. Saidinhc

    Saidinhc Spirit of Wars Guildmaster

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    To be brutally blunt here, this guide hasn't told me much.

    You can simplify a lot of things.. The paragraph about MF just needs the deminising returns table and a statement saying the more mf the better, but don't sacrifice speed and other important mods.

    The broken english makes this guide very hard to read. "everyone wants A stone of jordan", or "everyone wants THE stone of jordan" not "everyone wants stone of jordan".

    Also this guide is kind of pointless if the only conclusion you've come to is that you should run andy because of the bug. For one, this promotes exploitation (even though we all do it heh) but we don't learn anything else. Where are the tc areas that have best probabilities to drop unique rings? We already know its a random chance to be a soj, but obviously the LOWEST tc area is the best (since it cuts out all chances for higher level rings).

    EG: normal baal is more likely to drop a nagle than hell baal because normal baal can't drop a wisp projector.


    Also, in this guide we don't need to hear any 1.09 quotes or anything from any earlier version of the game. Those types of things are made for specific single player people who play lower versions of the game, they can be included but should be lumped into one section called "lower versions of d2 and d2c" etc... keep this to 1.10 information only, it will eliminate clutter.

    Overall it just needs some grammer fixing and some organization to make it a better guide, and if you want to go the extra distance for more advanced readers then you need to include more information and statistics.


    Your equipment choices:
    I wouldn't say that magefists or frostburns are a MUST. and your suggestions for boots aren't thought out either. Gloves and boots can be an awsome source for resistances and mf for novice players. Gambling boots and gloves untill you find something like a dual resist 10-20% mf type item is awsome since it saves resists that you have to make up elsewhere, especially if you use something like a 4 topaz armor which has ZERO resists.

    Also a peasant crown wouldn't be my choice for a poor mans helm, there are other helms in the exceptional category that top this one, and definitely the tarnhelm is the ultimate poormans helm (you've stated).

    Lastly one more major point/edit. These days the "new" mf class is the hammerdin. You can get around fast with vigor (if you don't have enigma) The hammers are un-resistable, the paladin has to worry less about resistance (since it comes so abundant on shields) and the paladin also has more life, more defense.. I'd only pick a sorc to have inherent teleport, or for pindle runs. I'd pick the barb if I wanted MAXIMUM mf% But for andy runs or any other boss runs I think (and i doubt i'm alone) that the hammerdin is the uber mf class.


    edit: clarifications/more points
     
  8. darkweize

    darkweize IncGamers Member

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    about the value of soj in europe ladder:
    its not like a high rune like jah or ber:in fact nobody would give 1 ber for a soj;its more likely 2 sojs for a ber.
    I know it because i already tried(i got soj off hell andy).
     
  9. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    Forgive me again. I already asked for forgiven for very bad spelling at Introduction. Don’t judge me too hard. English is not my first language! (not even second probably :)
    But you are right, guide needs corrections. May be I need a friend with good knowledge of English to correct second versions of this guide. Any volunteers?

    And thank you for your constructive corrections about item generation mechanism. Of cause I know them very well, I read “Item generation tutorial†on diabloii.net uncounted amount of times, comparing it to d2data.mpq file contents. But I think you miss the idea of this guide – it is adapted to non experienced players, but “Item generation tutorial†is for old d2 players as you and I. The idea of this guide is to explain some basic things about soj mf. And experienced players would not ask “how to find sojâ€. That’s why my words may be incorrect in details, I try to make simple description to middle educated person.

    About Andy bug. There is simple way of avoiding it – don’t complete all act1 quests, save one pointless, like Charsi’s or Blood Raven’s. I don’t suggest anything, point to me ware I do it, and I correct it in second edition. Anyone decide his rules himself. I only post needed information.

    About items. Again I only write about good low end items, and not say, that they are must. But you are right, I forget about resists.

    About hammerdin. Yes may be he is another good class for 100% Andy mf. I agree with you, but this guide not need including all possible builds for Andy mf. One build for example must be enough. For beginner it is sorc, because of teleport. Not even such good skills like vigor or leap can compare to 9fps teleport. Why enigma is so popular?

    About SOJ’s trade value. As I wrote, it is included only to compare soj with other items, and is not exact at all.

    Thanks to all repliers! I need feedback! :)
    Edit: Hmm. Right. I must remove word "ONLY" in gloves examples. Simply i like frostiers at bigining very much and they drops from andy vefy often.
     
  10. Jedi

    Jedi IncGamers Member

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    hi!

    i read through your guide and the replies and i totaly disagree with the critics about grammar.( u got some good statistics help though) i understood what u tried to say and especially if u play on europe realm. people should have in mind we dont have one common language like some US boys that never heared of the isle Europe and therefore wouldnt understand a single word over here. while knowing that a special language is not the writters native language its bad manner to point things out this way.

    if its "people want stone of jordan" or if its "people want THE stone of jordan" is very unimportant really.

    that beeing said u should add a sentence like... any grammatical flaw u find in my thread is done with joy and to make the reader happy. the finder is allowed to keep this flaw. :p

    that sentence also counts for this reply.

    regards
    Jedi
     
  11. TWo

    TWo IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for this guide, but do you know anything about trading in Asia area? Or anyone else knows? Please tell me if so. Thanks! "I will vote base on numbr of SOJ I find." :)
     
  12. sangfagel

    sangfagel IncGamers Member

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    Hallelujah!... Good job, Igor :clap:
     
  13. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    Thank you for help, Jedi, but grammar is impotent thing. I want to write correctly. Other peoples understand correct text better, right?
    But I agree with you, peoples in Internet must write freely. No one must control them. Only censure for words like **** or *** :).

    TWo, I don’t know about Asia trading system. May be it is the same as Europe’s? What do you want to know?
    Try to chart in trading forums in your realm, may be it helps.

    sangfagel, thanks.

    P.S.: By the way, I just bought big book – “Big Manual. English Language for School Pupils and Studentsâ€, and started to read it! :) I hope it helps.
     
  14. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    The item generation tutorial is outdated, as with many things on diabloii.net. 1.10 has made quite alot of changes in drop rates and TCs.

    Have you read the part of my post about the Andy bug?
    Only the last quest in act 1 affects it. The way to avoid it is by going to act 2 immidiatly after completing the Andy quest.
     
  15. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    Yes in 1.10 things changed. But SOJ genaration mechanism stayed same. Or not? Please report logical errors in this guide, as you did for TC system. Though I think all thoughts about base item type unimportant in soj guide. Any monster can drop ring. Right? And this information not needed in the guide. One exception – table of probabilities to drop any ring for some monster must be included. How do you think?
    I don’t argue with you about this bug. In guide I said: “Exact mechanism is unknownâ€. And your theory about it needs testing. I except it, but will test it tomorrow. Anyway, how to go to act 2 and not talk to Warriv?

    O! And how can I find information about actual MF values in 1.10? Can you post link?
     
  16. symvar

    symvar IncGamers Member

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    sry, imo just alot of useless info.. i red it, but nothing i wanted to know in there..

    i found 2 sojs tough, one from hel anda and the other from hel meph.. ;)
     
  17. Saidinhc

    Saidinhc Spirit of Wars Guildmaster

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    Not to start anything here, but for one I'm not american (I'm Canadian), and I HAVE herd of Europe. And it would be stupid for anyone to assume that english is the only accepted language. Just because I have a stern attitude about grammer doesn't make me some sort of closed-minded biggot.

    Back to the point; this is a guide. and while its conclusions are very obvious, its method to arrive at those conclusions is difficult to understand. I don't mean this as an insult but the guide looks like it was put through a translation filter. I dont have a problem with spelling because the internet is full of bad spelling and shortcuts (for example your use of the letter U ). Its the tense problems and the missing words that make it hard to understand. The person writing this guide sounds like they have a very good understanding of english but it doesn't look like its been re-read.

    Also, the broken english and grammar wouldn't bother me so much if the guide was organized. There are quotes and stats from all types of things in all types of areas in this guide (ie he talks early on about previous versions of diablo2 and d2lod yet at the very end hes quoting jarulf from a 1.09 version). There are a few relevant paragraphs, but I find that most of the rest of it is broken fluff.


    Igor: I would love to volunteer my help and time to try to organize your thoughts and edit your work. please PM me if you want to. And I commend your efforts to this guide to making it better and more understandable. -PS. the andy bug stats and explanations have all been tested and explained. the information can be found on the basin technical forums.

    edit: corrections/additions.
     
  18. igorpotapov

    igorpotapov Banned

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    Symvar, what do you want to know?

    Saidinhc, I realized not to post old patch info, thanks. And I will improve my English.
    Thanks, I will connect to you when I finish second edition.
    As for Andy bug, I collect info and think about tests.

    I just finish to complete new table for effective MF. Any thoughts?

    Table of MF diminishing returns for 1.10, thanks to Shadow_247 and Thrugg.
    Code:
    +MF wearied,%	+Chance to find unique,%
    0			0
    100			71
    150			93
    200			111
    250			125
    300			136
    400			153
    500			166
    750			187
    1000			200
     
  19. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    You might want to add that while the added mf% seems to make less difference in 1.10, the base chance for uniques has been improved alot.
     
  20. ayoko

    ayoko IncGamers Member

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    Thx for the info. One thing that I have learned from your guide is that if I am running NM Travincial for charms & crafting stuff & a nagle or manald drops, then I ought to go kill Meph & Andy in the same game. If a Nagle or Manald drops in Hell, then I should go kill Andy.
     

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