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The PVM Palazon - Passion runeword wielding Tankazon

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by LordQuas, Jun 14, 2005.

  1. LordQuas

    LordQuas IncGamers Member

    May 20, 2005
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    The PVM Palazon - Passion runeword wielding Tankazon

    So far this is all pure theorycraft, I haven't built this character yet, I was just looking here for some advice pertaining to gear, skills and stats.

    So as you'v eprobably gathered form the thread title, this will be a Tankazon build (one hander/shield wielder using all passive/magic skills) who wields a Passion weapon (this build, the Palazon, gets its namesake from the Zeal this weapon grants us). If you're unfamiliar with the Passion runeword, please check the Summit for info.

    Here is what I had in mind for the build

    My goal with the gear is to get enough +skills to get Zeal up to 5 swings, as well as to deliver enough CB/DS/OW to offset the somewhat low damage this build is bound to have.

    Weapon: Passion Zerker or Caddy
    Shield: Stormshield
    Head: Shako/CoA/Delerium (basically anything with +2 skills, Shako or CoA preferably for the DR to go with SS and Dungos)
    Body: Enigma/Chains of Honor
    Hands: Crafted +2 Passives Gloves with essential mods/Dracul's Grasp/Soul Drainer
    Feets: Gore Riders
    Waist: Verdungo's
    Neck: Highlord's Wrath/Mara's
    Fingers: Dual Ravens/SoJs or BKs (if you're having problems reaching +5 Zeal)


    Jav and Spear: Nothing
    Bow and XBow: Nothing
    Passive and Magic:
    Critical Strike - 10+
    Penetrate - 20
    Dodge - 12+
    Avoid - 7+
    Evade - 12+
    Slow Missiles - 1 (BULLET TIME)
    Decoy - 1+
    Valkyrie - 1+

    When this build is done it should leave a lot of free skill points to max what's not essential (meaning anything besides penetrate). I'd probably max Valk, since its the most useful thing after penetrate for this build. Why is penetrate so important? In my experience playing Zealots, they're notoriously bad when it comes to AR. This fixes that by adding a passive 225% increase at lv20 on top of all your gear.


    Strength - Enough for gear (156 for stormshield should be your highest req, the additional str from that should help you get to what you need, although your str can be much lower if you're using a light enough enigma, with nigma you could get away with ~110)
    Dexterity - Enough for max block (193 dex at lv85 will give max block with stormshield)
    Vitality - Everything Else
    Energy - NONE, obv.

    Critique is welcome, please help me make this work.

  2. Tib

    Tib IncGamers Member

    Jun 22, 2004
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    You wouldn't belive it if I told you, but my drunken bud and I were talking about this not 20 minutes ago! LOL, Sounds likea great i-friggin-dea! let me know how it goes...
  3. Crispyknight

    Crispyknight IncGamers Member

    Jul 6, 2003
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    Don't amazons still have that goofy hit-recovery-takes-forever bug? Anything but javelins and daggers have absolutely terrible block recovery rates.

    I matted a sword mistress awhile back without the benefit of passion with two handed weapons, untwinked. Maxed or near maxed penetrate, dodge, avoid, evade, valk. Rarely got hit, no need for block. If they've fixed the block bug, you shouldn't have any trouble at all.
  4. hulla-hop

    hulla-hop IncGamers Member

    Oct 11, 2003
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    damage reduction is capped at 50% so youll have much to much with your setup.

    id go for coa, dungos and coh thats about 38. by dumping the ss, youll have alot of statpoints to put into vita.
  5. baboontilt

    baboontilt Banned

    Nov 25, 2004
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    this is an interesting build idea, which is nice to see with so many look alike character builds today. I was considering making a jabazon with super crushing blow but this idea is even more unique(pure tanker set up). I'd say your best bet for him is to go the crushing blow route to take out high lifer bosses but at the same time you should throw some elemental damage and open wounds possibly. I think Guilliums face(spelling?) would do nicely because of the offensive stats it adds(crushing blow) and also has 30 fhr on it. Id say socket it with an ias jewel to increase your attack speed. Storm shield is ur best bit for a shield IMO because of the DR and some resists. COH for armor for resists and DR so you would have 43 total dr. I think a fhr open wounds blood crafted belt would be best for the constatnt damage it deals. For your gloves i think that 20 ias 2 passive skiulls and 10 % crushing blow gloves would be ideal. also make sure to use gores for more offensive abilities. This leaves you with open rings and ammy slots as well as the inventory. I just see this working descently with the fhr dr and crushing blow to deal ur main source of damage. Hope this helps you in some way
  6. 5Ws

    5Ws Banned

    Dec 2, 2004
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    Why not Fortitude, that thing adds 300 ED right there, should at least relieve the damage problem, and the +life and resist don't look too shabby either.
    Though you won't get the +2 skills, but Highlord+Shako (CoA)+BK is already +4, if you own an Anni even better.
    And maybe a fast two-hander would be better, if block is indeed not needed, as Crispyknight said.
    IMO this would be a better plan:

    20 Dodge
    20 Avoid
    I think these should be maxed since they do their work while you are attacking, shouldn't you get them as high as possible?

    5 in Evade
    Ability to dodge when running or walking don't seem as important as being able to dodge while attacking.

    20 Valk
    Some might say get to lvl 17, since the Valk gets a War Pike, but for melee-zon, I'm thinking I need the big meatshield.

    10 Critical Strike
    Adding that 30 some percent from Highlord, it should be close to 100%.

    10 in Penetrate
    Can't do without AR.

    1 in Slow Missile, Decoy, and Inner Sight.

    That amounts to ** Skill Points, done at Lvl 76, so for the rest, you can put it in either Penetrate or Evade, or even Decoy.
    As for items, I think these are a must:
    Shako/CoA (I don't think Delirium is as useful as those two)
    1x BK
    Passion in a fast two-hander
    These will ensure that you have a large enough damage, 5-hit Zeal, and a consistent Deadly Strike.

    For the rest, this is what I think:
    Soul Drainer for the dual leech.
    For Mercs, Might would be very helpful for the damage, Holy Freeze would be too, to slow the monsters down to a crawl. Slap on a Pride for some more damage from Concentration, I think Hell is very much do-able.
    Act 1 Merc can also be used, equip them with Faith, and it'll raise the damage along with the attack speed of Zeal.
  7. LordQuas

    LordQuas IncGamers Member

    May 20, 2005
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    So I should be building the passion in a Giant Thresher? Its a fast 2 hander and has extremely good range.
  8. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

    Jul 6, 2003
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    AFAIK Zeal is not interruptible, so the slow hit-recovery shouldn't be a big problem.
    However speed of zeal could be a problem. I don't know what is the highest frame per zeal ratio for zon, but from what I remember it was 7 for sorceress (4 for Paladin!) and the IAS for hitting 7 frames per zeal swing was quite high for -10 base speed weapon (over 100 I think)

    EDIT: Also I am concerned of the D/A/E bug, it works with Fend it can work with zeal too ???
  9. batuchka

    batuchka IncGamers Member

    Jul 16, 2003
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    I think Delirium helm would be an option/crowd control with this build with the ctc confuse and attract charges but at a loss of cb from set winged helm :( Anyone has a fpa table for zealing with all chars? I agree Fort is a solid armor choice but if 2-handed i am mixed between Passion G.Thresher and G.Poleaxe :p
    Also if she has a wisp equipped from earlier discussions i was involved in state that an oath with HOW charges on switch would not get the HOW spirit to poof which could raise ed/ar a bit :D
  10. Tarantella

    Tarantella IncGamers Member

    Oct 17, 2004
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    Hmm, In SC single play I'd try with a fast two hander,zero points in D/A/E, 20pts each in inner sight,valk, penetrate and critical strike; using high life and good FHR hitting the 5 frame hit recovery with perhaps stone armour; expendible fast golem working quite nicely out front with a well equipped defiance merc,the decoy on the flanks and keeping tight by the valk should work nicely.

    How you get to that level Im not so sure about. :D
  11. Sokar Rostau

    Sokar Rostau IncGamers Member

    May 19, 2004
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    Heeey, that's my Zonnie! I have a guide on the Palazon that I have been working on since I first made one shortly after 1.10 was released. My Season 1 Palazon, Serakwen reached level 96 and my current blade babe, Sera_Braveblade is 97. I am unable to finish the guide at present because I am working long hours until August, but I will tell you what I have learnt after over 18 months of playing this build.

    MY GEAR:
    70% Shael'd Kira.
    Seraph's Hymn
    Passion Cryptic Sword
    Fortitude Balrog Skin
    Stormshield with Pdiamond
    Laying of Hands.
    5% BK Ring.
    Carrion Wind.
    SWITCH: Gimmershreds/Medusa's Gaze

    This is a PvM build and, as such, all gear is aimed at doing damage to demons/undead hence the LoH, Seraph and Scourge if you decide to use it instead. For armour, CoH should only be chosen if you decide to make a Shock Zealot and replace the Kira with Dream, otherwise there is simply no better choice than Fortitude, that said, CoH does increase your damage and D/A/E slightly with the +skills. If you cannot get Fortitude (because you're non-ladder for example) then +2 Valour or Duress are very good too.

    There is no need for mana and therefore there is no mana leech with this build, this can get a little annoying when casting Decoy at lower levels but thats what potions are for until your base mana pool is big enough to replenish itself. At high levels the only time there is ever a mana issue is when fighting Immune to Physical mana burners such as Ghosts, you can only Berserk them for so long before they hit you and deplete your pool. In this situation take a few steps back and throw Gimmers at them. This is also advised when confronting Holy Freeze uniques which are your greatest enemy. While on the subject of Berserk, don't forget that this attack renders you immune to Iron Maiden. In fact, I would also go so far as to say that an Amazon is a better Berserker than a Barbarian, she seems to be faster for one thing but also, the only reason a Barbarian can Berserk is his high life whereas a Palazon relies on Dodge which renders 0% Defence meaningless. I have, on a number of occassions, used Berserk all the way through a Baal run without taking any damage at all (one good reason for this is that the right combination of Auras from your party members can give you a huge damage boost, I had a 6.6k Berserk recently)

    Take a good look at the mods on Passion - every single mod is designed with the Amazon in mind. There is a small AR/Damage boost from your pathetic Heart of Wolverine on top of the AR from the weapon itself. AR/Damage to the Undead are invaluable, especially when in a scourge for an extra 50%. Hit Blinds Target is useful for Crowd Control but by far the most useful mod for this purpose is Hit Causes Monster to Flee - with some Open Wounds and a few hundred Poison Damage (from charms and the Carrion Vine granted by Carrion Wind (which is used for life leech and to max Poison Resist)) the monsters rarely return, especially if you throw some Gimmers into their backs as they run screaming.

    There are a couple of different routes you can go as far as skills are concerned, mainly Inner Sight or no Inner Sight. I use base Inner Sight, if you choose to max it (either max it or leave it at base, there is no in-between), you can skimp points from Evade. You can also put more points into CS but this will make you less resilient in the long run and is a bit wasteful as you can get a decent amount of DS from items to compliment your CS.

    Inner Sight: 1
    Critical Strike: 3-5
    Slow Missiles: 1
    Dodge: 20
    Avoid: 20
    Penetrate: 20
    Decoy: 5
    Evade: 20 (max last)
    Valkyrie: 20
    Pierce: 0-1

    This build is not complete until level 99, but don't worry that's just a formality. This is also a build unsuited to being rushed, it serves no other purpose (mf, pvp etc) than playing the game and a Palazon can kill every single enemy you will ever meet. Unlike other builds where you should max something as soon as possible this is one where you should balance your skills as for most of the game. The first skill you should max, however, is Penetrate, but don't forsake your other skills in favour of it.

    The best way to allocate skills as you level is to place 5 points in Dodge as soon as possible (use Den of Evil for Inner Sight and your levelling points in CS, but try and stay at lvl 3 CS, if you go to level 5 then take 2 points off Evade), then concentrate on raising your Avoid to a similar percent (rather than slvl). Once this is done you should already have started putting points in Penetrate. Between 24 and 30 you should put 2 points each in Decoy and Evade with the rest in Penetrate. Above level 30 place 1 point in D/A/E and 2 points in Valkyrie for every 3 points in Penetrate. Once Penetrate is maxed concentrate on Valk by putting 4 points in Valk for every 1 in D/A/E. You MUST have a level 5 Decoy, maxed Penetrate and Maxed Valk before you go to Hell. You are not using Decoy to boost your Valk but as an essential tool for fooling the enemy, it is especially necessary to cast a Decoy in areas heavily populated by ranged attackers as they can often interrupt your casting of Slow Missiles otherwise.

    STR: 200+
    DEX: <175
    VIT: Remainder
    ENE: 0

    The Palazon has no way to significantly increase damage through skills, the best way to do this is by increasing Strength, as an added bonus to this you can also choose any base armour for your runeword (although the heavier armours are ugly and Balrog Skin is the sexiest ;) ).

    Dexterity brings up the issue of the so-called bugs. It is better to consider these as peculiarities of the build (like the peculiar fact a Sorc can swing an axe faster than a Barb), rather than bugs. The first issue is the 'block bug'. It is important to remember what this is, as well as the reality of its effects. This is not, as some have claimed, a slow block rate but a slow block RECOVERY rate similar to hit recovery. The reality of this 'bug' is that the effects are negligible except in a pvp environment. The only cure for this is a less than maxed block, but never less than 65%. Even maxed block doesn't pose much problem (Serakwen had max block after I equipped Annihilus), but I prefer around 70% after Annihilus. The decreased Attack Recovery that lower Dexterity results in is fixed by AR charms (preferably Fine).

    The other 'bug' has no relationship to Dexterity and can be annoying, but again this is to be thought of not as a 'bug' but a peculiarity of the build. This is Dodge lock. Actually Dodge lock is a bit misleading because (again except in a pvp environment) it is usually Avoid that causes the problem. D/A/E interrupts whatever you are doing which is why you need to cast Decoy in the vicinity of ranged attackers before you cast Slow Missiles. I have never had a problem with Dodge but Avoid is a bit of a nuisance unless you are practised. Thankfully, there is a cure and this is Fortitude. Once the Chilling Armour is triggered Avoid lock goes away entirely, this is so effective that Slow Missiles becomes a sometimes skill rather than an always one.

    Remember also that the so-called 'Fend Bug' is a display bug only, a successful attack on you is supposed to interrupt your attack unless you are a Barbarian using Concentrate or are under the effects of Concentration aura. This is not the problem with Zeal that it is with Fend because the number of foes you attack with each Zeal is capped at 5.

    This depends on how wealthy you are and whether you are ladder or not, but there are three choices for the base Merc. In no particular order these are Rogue, Blessed Aim and Might.

    Whatever you choose to equip her with in terms of helm and armour (Fortitude is great if you can afford a second one) she must have Faith. Her Inner Sight effectively gives you an AR bonus and means you rarely have to cast it. The Fanaticism aura is a little disappointing in comparison to the Desert Guard Mercs but it will give you a damage and speed boost. Cold or Fire is up to you but remember that Fire does more damage while Cold slows monsters. Use a Rogue (and keep her alive) until you reach Nightmare Act 2. Overall the Rogue is not the best choice but she is still better than something like a Barbarian.

    This is a damn good merc to choose because his aura will fix all your AR concerns, but he will not be able to give you much damage, the only source of which is either Last Wish or Pride which also makes him the most expensive.

    Overall the best choice for sheer damage output, equip him with Pride and your concerns about being interrupted are cured while giving a damage bonus of something in the realm of 500% from the combined auras.

    As mentioned before, this is a build to be played not to be rushed to Baal. Throughtout the game you will find different tactics useful, depending on your level. A good example of this is before you have Passion. Sera_Braveblade wore ethereal Rattlecage throughout Hell (and on into almost 200 Baalruns before it broke) for the Crushing Blow and Hit Causes Monster to Flee (this was early in the ladder season so there were no better armours available had I wanted them). She used first a Hellplague and then a Hexfire, and briefly a Plague Bearer before she could use Passion. Hellplague is a fine sword for lower levels because of its decent poison damage, to use it effectively you have to act like a Daggermancer and hit each target once to infect them then move onto the next, it's Normal anyway so monsters life regeneration is non existent. Use your Decoy frequently, not just for ranged attackers, this is an invaluable skill that not only allows you to scout ahead but also to take the heat off during battle. Another thing to remember is that with D/A/E you are able to do things that some Sorcs fear to, such as running through a group of monsters to open a TP or draw them away from an entrance (like Claw Viper Temple lvl 2. I had a situation in Hell where the entrance to Claw Viper lvl 2 was blocked on level 1 by 4 Mummy's, a pack of unique Mummy's, all their associated skeletons, two packs of zombies and 1 pack of snakes and our sorcs body was on the far side. Our whole party was slaughtered several times until I was able to run through, naked, and open a tp on the sorc's corpse then go back through a different tp and cast Decoys to draw them away so she could get her corpse safely, great fun :) Above all keep your merc alive!

    I'm sure there's something I meant to say but forgot somewhere...

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