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The "Pure Summoner" Build

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by KavikKang, Nov 18, 2006.

  1. KavikKang

    KavikKang IncGamers Member

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    The "Pure Summoner" Build

    Introduction
    I’ve noticed that there really isn’t a guide for a true summon nec, and people sometimes ask me about mine when they see it in action. So I thought I’d write one for the “MF Summon Nec†that I have always used since deciding I didn’t like the Sorc most people use for MFing. You’ll need to redefine “MFing†somewhat in order to use this build properly for it’s most useful purpose… doing solo Ball/Diablo runs in full 5-8 player games. You aren’t teleporting to the boss in 90 seconds with this character… you are completely clearing level three and the Throne through to Baal, and River of Flame from the waypoint through to Diablo. All of these places are max item level drop areas. In my experience, you get something good from the boss at the end of the level once in every 10-20 times. You’ll find several really good things on the way there with this build, in a 5-8 player game, every single time… and you’ll find something truly godly every ten or twenty times. Put in simple terms, Baal and Diablo are almost worthless compared to actually clearing the path too them in terms of what you find using this build to clear their levels in games with a high number of players.

    This build is not cheap. But it is, I think by far, the most versatile build there is. You can do absolutely anything except Torch runs with this build, and anything but Ubers in high-player count games (don’t try Chaos Sanctuary in a high player game until you are fully equipped and well-practiced with this nec, it’s the only place you really have to work hard to win). The “Pure Summoner†may do things a little slower in some places than some other classes and builds, but it can pretty much go anywhere and do well.

    I guess I have to come up with a name for this build, huh? I guess I’ll call it… what everyone else would, the “Pure Summonerâ€.

    Stats

    Strength
    You need 106 for an upped Homunculus, so that is your target. If I already have an anni and torch for him when I am building him I will give him exactly what he needs to have 106 with the anni and torch he will have. If I am starting out new (this is always the first character I build) I give him 85 which will be enough when you have an anni and torch. The 106 ST also means your Enigma will be built on Archon Plate.

    Dexterity
    While most seem obsessed with “max blockâ€, I am happy with anything 66% or better. With Homunculus and 150 into dex, you’ll be up around 70% (with the stat bonuses from gear/charms) when you are level 94. You really, really, really want block. I’ve done it with and without, and it is a huge difference with this specific build. You almost never get hit by anything… blocking 2/3rds of those rare occasions really leaves you feeling invincible.

    Life
    Of course, the whole goal of stat points is to leave as much as possible for life, everything else goes here.

    Energy
    Most seem to advocate no points at all here. I bring this build up to 50 Energy.


    Skills
    Obviously, your focus here will be on the Summon tree. But you’ll also need some points into both the Bone and Curse trees.

    Summon Skills
    This is your primary area. Max all three. Skele Mastery, Skele, and Skele Mage (Yes, I said max Mages… you absolutely *NEED* them). Put 1 point into all other skills on this tree. I personally use a fire golem, and you probably have too with only 1 point in the golem and golem mastery. Although you are an all-out summon nec, you don’t need more than 1 point in revive. For one thing, they are almost totally unnecessary with this build and you will probably almost never use them because they don’t last long and you have to keep bringing up new ones. More importantly, your Revive will be above level 20 from +skills so you will be able to revive more than 20 anyway. But you’ll only do it for fun, because the revives are not needed no matter where you are or what you are doing (except for killing Lillith or Uber Diablo). In the end, I generally wind up with 42-45 level on my maxed summon skills with this build. This translates into 16-17 of each, skeles and mages… 32-34 total.

    Bone Skills
    Hear your primarily need Bone Spear and Bone Armor. Put one point in the pre-reqs for Spear, max Spear, and put one point in Bone Spirit. With the +skills of this build you will find that your maxed Spear and 1-point Spirit wind up doing about equal damage, but are different types of attacks each of which has it’s uses. Learn to use both depending on which is best for the situation. Then put a single point in all of the “right side†skills… Bone Armor, Wall, and Bone Prison. You really only need the Armor, but Wall and Prison provide synergies to wall and will enhance it a little for the one point, and with your +skills your Wall and Prison will actually be useful in most areas. I almost never use Wall or Prison, but I like having them for versatility and just throwing down a wall for fun sometimes. Bone Wall is actually were I put the final points when I am in the 90’s and am done maxing everything, it provides a synergy for the armor which increases the armor about the same is putting into the armor itself, and just 4-5 points makes all the difference in the world for the wall and actually gives you a pretty good wall with your +skills.
    As for the armor, I just go with 1 point and I always have it on. With your +skills it’s like 225 points of extra life… how much do you pay for a measly 20 life sc?

    Although you max Bone Spear, and only put one point into Corpse Explosion, CE is your primary attack skill. Groups of monsters die very quickly in lower player games. While the Pure Summoner can solo anywhere except Ubers in 6-8 player games, 5-6 players is really an ideal number for purposes of killing speed. One reason for this is that your Corpse Explosion becomes fairly ineffective in 7-8 player games. Running Baal is actually pretty easy even in an 8-player game, it is Chaos Sanctuary that you need to be careful with.

    Curses
    This one is easy. 1 point on each and every one. You, yourself, do almost nothing with this build. You hardly lift a finger. You use tele to keep your army together and sometimes to focus the power of the entire army on a single monster. You become a master of curses, learning which one to use in which situations. (For _chose your deity_’s sake people, use Decrep on Baal!!! I am so tired of battling other necs in baal runs and being called a “newb†for spamming Decrep on Baal to over-ride the other nec’s dumb Amp or Lower Res. If you cast Decrep on Baal, he just sits there and does nothing and lets you kill him. He doesn’t use any of his special abilities as long as he is Decrepified!!! Newb, indeed…:) So you need 1 point in every curse, which will give you 24-27 (Homunculus gives you +2 Curses) with +skills… and you need to learn how to use them. They are all good, depending on the situation, but the most important are Amplify Damage (used most of the time), Decrepify, and Lower Resistance (used on physical immunes and in exp-Baal runs with a lot of sorcs and trap sins; use Amp Dam when there are more Melee/Bow/Hammerdins).


    Gear
    This really isn’t cheap, but it is darn impressive to see in action... and is the most tolerable means to MFing your own wealth that I have found in this game. One of the reasons I decided to write this guide is because every once in a while I just “stop the show†and a game I am in just stops with everyone wanting to know how my nec army is doing the things it is doing. Well… it’s mostly in the merc, so we’ll start with him. You need a Might merc from act 2.

    Merc Helm
    This is your cheapest merc item. Eth Delirium. The goal of this Merc is to provide as many auras to your army as possible, but the only aura you get from a helm is Holy Shock, which is pretty much useless. Delirium, on the other hand, will always confuse every monster on the screen in any fight that lasts more than a few seconds. This really makes a world of difference in keeping your merc alive… the monsters fight each other and don’t gang up on the merc.

    Merc Armor
    Here you will have Eth Bramble, preferably on Eth Hellforge Plate. Bramble doesn’t add a lot of def, so it is pretty vital that you have an eth armor with a high base def. Personally I look to ebug a Hellforge Plate to partially make up for this, but any good high def base armor will do. This gives your army Thorns.

    Merc Weapon
    This is the absolute most critical item of this entire build, even more important (just barely) than the Enigma (tele) that you will be wearing. Here you need Pride. The only stat you care about is the level of the Concentration aura. It really isn’t even important that this weapon be eth, because Pride adds no form of damage at all so there is really not any real difference between weather it is eth or not. It will be very weak as a weapon either way, despite it’s excellent mods. …but I always use an Eth Thresher anyway? The Concentration aura from this weapon, combined with the Might from the Merc and Thorns from the Bramble, make your melee skele’s absolutely deadly... and you have 16 or 17 of them. It’s this Concentration aura that really makes the biggest difference, even if you got a minimum level 17 conc aura. You will immediately notice the difference. This weapon is the key to the whole build. You don’t need to use revives, but if you revive the right things, monsters that do big melee damage... well, now that I think about it that is what usually “stops the showâ€. The right revives run around killing pretty much everything in one whack. Most things take one of your skeles 2 or 3 hits to kill, the overload of reviving 15 or 20 high melee damage monsters that kill almost everything in 1 hit pretty much makes every monster you encounter just instantly drop with 35+summons out there. This, now that I think about it, is what sometimes puts an end to the game and involves me in a lengthy discussion of “what just happenedâ€. This really is ridiculous with this combination of auras.


    Character Gear

    Ammy
    The most important thing you are looking for in an ammy, other than +2 all nec skills, is res all. The gear listed below depends on getting 15-20 res all from your ammy. (With this build, by the way, you will have 70-80 res all.) Obviously, most immediately think of Mara’s… but I actually think Mara’s kind of sucks. Probably because “I’m in d’ ammy b’nessâ€â€¦ I make the other half of my wealth (other than doing Baal and Diablo runs with this nec) crafting ammys and rings and know them well. So you could get the coveted “Mara’sâ€â€¦ or you could get, and probably cheaper, a crafted caster ammy with +2 all nec skills and 15-20 res all. This ammy will also have 5-20 FCR (which you don’t really care about with this build), 5-20% Mana Regen, some mana and maybe some other mods. A few other mods you would value highly for this build in addition to the vital ones already mentioned are %Damage goes to Mana (buy it now!), Life, and/or any type of useful high level skill (Level 16 Blizzard, for example).

    Helm
    Shako w/Perfect Topaz. You are shooting for 300-350MF, and you need both the life and mana that this will give you.

    Armor
    Archon Enigma. You are primarily an MF character, and you absolutely must have tele. Your upped Homunculus requires 106 Strength… there is no other rational choice here.

    Belt
    Twice-upped Goldwrap (don’t up it the second time until after you have Enigma, you won’t have the strength to wear it before then). I know, you are thinking “No way, Arachnids…†That’s what I thought originally way back when too. But I consider the minimum level of MF to spend my time MFing to be 333, so that’s the minimum for me on this guy. It’s really a choice of giving up the +skill from Arach or a ring (to replace with a Pnagel). Arach doesn’t really give you anything you need since FCR is of absolutely no concern too you with this build, and you almost never get hit by anything. The BK rings, on the other hand, are giving you 80-90something life in the higher levels. Twice-upped Goldwrap.

    Rings
    Two 3LL BK Rings. You really have little use for Energy if you brought it up to 50 like I suggested so you don’t need a Soj, the rest of your gear will give you all the casting power you will need (you’ll drink a potion to raise your 32-34 skele army). You have no use for the LL on the rings, so get the cheap ones. You want the skills and life.

    Weapon
    There is kind of a dual answer here. Get Leoric’s Arm early, it’s really cheap and immensely powerful for this build. As a final touch on items before working on the charms you really want and stuff like that, replace this with a Hoto. You need the res from the Hoto, the few extra points you get to skele skills over Hoto is not worth having to find 35+ res somewhere else.

    Shield
    Upped Homunculus w/P Diamond. This is your blocking and res and energy boost and… well, just get one. It’s amazing how cheap these things are. It’s definitely one of the very best items in the entire game, rivaling even many of the better runewords. If you are really rich later you can unsocket it and use an Um, or just do that from the beginning, but that’s only worth it if you have enough wealth that an Um is unimportant too you.

    Gloves
    Twice upped 40MF Chances. Between these, your Gheed’s, and Goldwrap… man, do you find a lot of gold. The typical gold drop is 1,000-1,800; the unique monsters generally leave piles of 8,000-18,000. If you are a big gambler like me, this is a really great thing. I generally have 10-20 million gold spread among my characters and mules… you have to keep muling it to everyone else because you just can’t spend it fast enough. If you are into anything that requires a lot of gold, this build will overload you with gold pretty quickly.

    Boots
    45+ War Travs. I usually have perfect or close to perfect, but this is always my “main guy†that I poor wealth into until he is perfect. Definitely get perfect Chances because they are cheap compared to what you are spending on this build, but you certainly might give up a few points on the Travs considering how much those last few points cost.

    Charms
    I carry my Horadric Cube in my inventory and leave one “full spot†of 8 spaces (enough to fit a polearm into). If playing with other people this allows you to pick up any size item, then quickly open your inventory and put it into your cube to make room to pick up another item of any size. I put a book of TPs and the Torch under the Cube. This leaves 6 columns for 1 GC and 1 SC each. You need an almost max MF Gheed’s, and really as close to perfect on all three stats is what is best for this build. Then 5 Summon GCs (later upgrading to high lifer Summon GCs as you can get them). Your anni takes up one of the SC spots, and if you want to carry keys to open locked chests (I do), that takes up another. You have 4 spots for SCs. At first I usually have 4 6-7MF SCs, but look, as soon as I have everything else, to find 4 7MF SCs with 15-20 life each. If you really want to max out charms you can carry one more GC and SC in the cube, but leave room for a polearm so you can pick up two things when you are playing with other people. You’ll really be cursing yourself if you miss a Griffon’s Eye because you were holding a Tomb Reaver… leave room in the cube to hold the Tomb Reaver and still pick up a 4soc GM Bow or anything else that might drop.

    This build will generally have a little over 1100 “base life†(based on the gear and stat distribution listed above). Your Bone Armor essentially adds another 180-225 life depending on what level you are. If you upgrade to “godly charms†you will wind up with around 1300-1400 life depending on the quality of your Torch, Anni, and Ammy. That’s around 1500-1600 life if you add in the Bone Armor. This is a huge amount of life considering that once you become good at using this build you will almost never, literally almost never, be hit even once. On this build, like the ammy, it is important that you get high res (15-20) out of both your anni and torch. Stats actually aren’t that important by comparison; you really want res a lot more with this build. Notice how you don’t need any res chams… your res will be around 70-80 depending on the quality of your anni, torch, and ammy.
     
  2. KavikKang

    KavikKang IncGamers Member

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    Playing Strategies

    I use this build probably because I am much more into the trading and wealth-acquiring aspect of this game than actually playing the game. With this “Pure Summoner†you can simply walk through the game taking almost no action and simply allow your skeletons to do all the work. All you do is cast curses to help them. Most other characters are actually “tacticalâ€, they run around hitting things or shoot things at them. With this build you really are more “strategicâ€, simply standing back and using the best curse for the situation. For example, against physical immunes your most often used Amplify Damage is useless (any number times zero is still zero). So hitting physical immunes with Lower Resist will help your mages bring them down faster. (This is also a good time to use that maxed Bone Spear…)

    The primary purpose of the “Pure Summoner†is doing solo MF runs in 5-8 player games. If you are a sorc/pally MFer, you are going to need to re-define what MFing is with this guy. For one thing, you have to raise an army before you can even do anything. And as mentioned in the intro, you won’t be tele’ing to the boss with this build and being finished in 90 seconds. Think more in terms of 5 minutes or so. You will be looking for games with names like “Trade City†or “Chaos Runâ€, games that will last a long time and have a lot of people in them. You need to raise an army as fast as you can in act 1 and then clear all of the max item drop levels of Baal (level 3 and Throne) and if you are lucky enough for the game to last long enough, and fully equipped, Diablo (half of River of Flame and all of the challenging Chaos Sancuary) as quickly as possible.

    You will find that you actually wind up hoping for charms from Baal and Diablo more than anything else, since you get truly useful items from them so rarely as compared too what you find on the path you clear on the way too them. And you don’t often encounter other MFers here, since most of them either can’t do it or can’t do it quickly enough to be worth doing. Generally you just do Baal and Diablo, by the time you’ve done those the tele-to-the-boss Sorc and Pally MFers will have long ago done everything else. It is a very different thing than traditional MFing with a sorc or tele’ing pally but, in my opinion, far more rewarding.

    This build can solo absolutely anywhere in the game with 8 players, although 5-6 is best for purposes of killing speed. Baal does take quite a while to kill in an 8-player game, but poses no threat to you or your army (as long as you keep him decrepified at all times!). You’ll have to kill the sword carrying monsters in Chaos Sanctuary with Bone Spear and Corpse Explosion as quickly as possible and keep up with raising skeletons to replace dead ones. Chaos Sanctuary is some actual work for a change (oh, and your merc will die, leave him that way until you get to Diablo because he will just keep dying from the Iron Maiden curse they hit you with). Anywhere else really is just a complete cakewalk, except for Ubers.

    Ubers must be done in a private, pass worded game so that it is a one player game. Under these conditions, this build very easily kills the two lower organ-giving Ubers, like with everything else you simply cast a curse and stand there and watch. You can use your Spear if you want to speed things up a bit. Lillith is the only monster in the game outside of Uber Trist that really poses any problem for this build other than having to wait a while for Baal to die. Lillith will kill your army about 50% of the time... and pretty quickly, too. The other 50% of the time she will not, and only manage to kill a few skeles in the Baal-like amount of time it takes for her to die. It’s strange and I don’t understand it, but that’s how it works. (Even when you are “winning†lay into her with Spear, too, and I use Amp on her to max the melee skeles out and drop her as soon as possible… she really is dangerous). The solutions are A) Raise your 20+ revives before fighting her (mostly monsters with ranged attacks, your skeles already have her crowded), then you win every time. Or B) Open a TP and use WPs to raise a new army and try again. Don’t use any TPs while raising the new army or you’ll have to “walk†(i.e. tele) back too her. As for Uber Trist I am convinced from Lillith, and talking to people who do Uber Trist, that this build cannot do Torch runs… so I have never tried. So there is only one place in the entire game that you can’t go. Personally, I’ve always just been happy to just turn the keys into organ sets and use the organ sets as currency.

    If you were fortunate enough to encounter Uber Diablo in a pass worded game where you were alone, you could defeat him and get the anni. If it is not a pass worded game, the anni hunters will know he is in your game and it will fill to 8 players and the seven of them will kill him in one-tenth the time it would have taken you. I have had Uber Diablo spawn in a game I was in alone, but did not have a pass word. He was about exactly half-way dead, and so was my army, and the anni hunters all came while I was replenishing my army in act 1 to finish him off. But I didn’t even have any revives. From what I saw, with all 20+ revives I image that Uber Diablo would go down rather quickly and be much easier than Lillith. So, if you get lucky enough to get Uber Diablo in a private game you can definitely get the anni with this build.

    Teleport is more important to a summon nec than any other character. This is really how you move through the game. By teleporting everywhere your army is always right with you, and you never lose any skeles. When you teleport with a summon nec, usually your summons will not move from the spot you land on until you do. Whenever you tele near enemies, immediately take a few steps back away from the monsters. This puts your entire army between you and them and your army will immediately spread out and protect you… usually by killing all of the monsters in seconds. This leads to your most powerful form of attack, which is to do what I just described above to a specific monster. If you want to take something down fast, teleport on top of it and take a few steps back. Unless it is Baal, stoneskin mod, physically immune, or an Uber, it will die within seconds. Meph and Diablo will also die within seconds. (I never PK and have always been interested to know this. If any PKers out there build one of these please try the “tele, step back†move on someone with this build and let me know how that works out:)

    Finally, don’t run with your summon nec. If you are running your def does not count. Most of the time when you get hit and take a ton of damage it is because you were running. There is no need to run with this build, especially considering that Enigma makes your walk speed about equal to the base run speed. You will always be surrounded and protected by your army, and if anything threatens you simply calmly walking in a direction that will put one of your skeles between you and the threat will end that situation very quickly… and if it hits you on the way while you are walking you’ll find that it does little more than take down your Bone Armor. When just moving through empty halls and not fighting, you will always be teleporting to keep your army together with you (and not lose skeles as a side benefit), so there is no need to ever run. Personally, I only run in town with my nec. I can’t remember ever taking one of those “massive blows†with my walking summon nec. It’s actually pretty hard to die with this build as long as you always stay behind your army. That’s why you teleport everywhere (not blindly, but as if you were walking the hallways) and never just walk to places, when you encounter anything you just take a few steps back and cast Amp… then look at what is going on and switch curses if another is better for the situation. Sticking too this strategy, anyway, it really is very difficult to die.
     
  3. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

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    A few suggestions...

    A Pure Summoner has no need for Lower Resist. Not at all. Amplify Damage will break *most* of the PI's in the game, and for the unbreakable ones, Decrepify works wonders for slowing them down while your Magi chip them down.

    On that note, Infinity is a useful alternative to Pride. Not only will it increase Mage damage, but it will boost Corpse Explosion's damage by leaps and bounds. It will also make your merc more useful, granting him Crushing Blow to take down bosses quicker.

    Confuse and Attract can also be forgotten, not once have I used either of them on my Pure Summoner.

    You said this was a "Pure" Summoner, but youuse Bone Spear... unsynergised, it is WEAK. At that state, at level 30 for example, it will be dealing 400 damage, 450 at most. It's not worth the 20 points IMO. A Pure Summoner does not use Bone spells. Those points are better redirected to Corpse Explosion or Golem Mastery.

    Corpse Explosion is an incredible tool for a Summoner. It gives you something to do while your minions are hacking away. More importantly it gives you a very powerful offensive tool. The main selling point is the Radius, which is more than enough to justify a 20 point investment. You will notice a difference in killing speed when you see half of the screen drop dead all at once.

    I don't see a mention of possible Iron Golem usage. Rusty is potentially the most powerful golem, and can be used with your merc to start your army at the beginning of each game. It can also be created from a weapon with Crushing Blow to make a very good boss killing tool. This is where Golem Mastery comes in useful, increasing the survivability of Rusty so he can last the distance.

    IMO Archon Plate is too high in strength for an Enigma for a Summoner. You shouldn't need any higher than a Mage Plate. With a Torch and Annihilus you can put no points in strength and still use every piece of equipment, using Enigma to fulfill any strength needs. You can even go with a Breast Plate, since Defense is not the #1 issue of a Pure Summoner (actually, it's probably the least important thing to worry about)

    I would advise AGAINST upgrading Goldwrap twice. A Troll Belt needs a whopping 151 strength, something a Summoner should not have. Upgrading once is good enough. Arachnid Mesh, while expensive, is a superior choice without a doubt. Killing speed > MF always, and MF can always be made up for in Small Charm form.

    You seem to miss the awesomeness of SoJs, namely the huge mana boost. It will mean you can keep your Energy at base (which you should already have), yet still have a huge mana pool. A high mana pool means you can teleport for long distances. Raise Skeleton costs 35-40+ mana per cast at higher levels, it means you can raise a full army without needing to chug down mana potions. It means you can keep casting high-level Corpse Explosion over and over to rid the whole screen of monsters.

    Marrowwalks is probably the boots for a Pure Summoner. +1-2 Skeleton Mastery provides a significant boost to your offensive power. Enigma+Torch+Anni will provide the strength needed to equip it. My Pure Summoner has only 30 strength base, yet can wear 118 strength Marrowwalks with ease.

    Homunculus should be socketed with an Um for best effect. If you can get a hold of an Enigma, then a simple Um rune should be no real issue. Upgrading it isn't necessary, it will only result in a small defense increase. A Summoner does not need defense, since you will not be getting hit (ideally, never).

    Trang-Oul's Claws is another great choice for Gloves. +2 Curses will increase the Radius and Duration of your more useful curses, such as Dim Vision for when traversing the Worldstone Keep where there are numerous Gloams and Souls that want to rip you to shreds.

    Arm of King Leoric is a far superior weapon than HotO for a Pure Summoner. It grants +5 to your 2 main skills, +4 to Skeleton Magi, and +2 to Corpse explosion, as well as the large mana/level boost, which again allows for more spamming and casting. FCR is not the biggest issue, you will reach the 48% breakpoint with Trang's Gloves, Arachnid Mesh and AoKL wand. Resists, while crucial, aren't as important if you aren't being hit behind a wall of 50 minions. Minion stack allows me to teleport safely through packs of Black Souls with 30% lightning resist without taking ANY damage. Homunculus w/ Um, Torch, Anni and charms should get you near-max resists.

    As for Skills, I am personally doing this:

    Curses - 7 points
    1 in each Amplify Damage, Dim Vision, Life Tap, Decrepify
    3 prerequisites (Terror, Iron Maiden, Weaken)

    Poison & Bone - 21 points
    20 Corpse Explosion
    1 prerequisite (Teeth)


    Summoning - rest of points
    20 Raise Skeleton
    20 Raise Skeleton Mage
    20 Skeleton Mastery
    1 Revive
    1 Summon Resist
    4 prerequisites (Clay Golem, Blood Golem, Iron Golem, Golem Mastery)
    rest of points to Golem Mastery

    As you can see, there is no Bone Armor. Leave it for the Bone Necro, a Summoner does not need it. Summoners have 40+ minions to take all the damage for them. After all the main skills are maxed, all extra points go to Golem Mastery. This allows for a beefier Iron Golem, especially important when using a good item to make it from. 20 in Corpse Explosion allows you to do things like kill a whole pack of 20+ cows in 2 casts - very powerful. You'll also notice no Fire Golem. While it has it's uses, if I were to choose between the point in Fire Golem or Golem Mastery, I would choose Golem Mastery every time. I haven't found a time where Fire Golem is more useful than Clay or Iron.

    I think that'll do for now, I hope I've given you a few things to think about.
     
  4. Bulgarian

    Bulgarian Banned

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    I have a lvl 83 hardcore summoner with 1 point in mages, you do not "absolutely *NEED* them".
     
  5. KavikKang

    KavikKang IncGamers Member

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    Tell that to those Winged things on the way to Baal. You are an MF character, you need to do things relatively fast. Lower Resist makes all the difference in the world. Lower Resist is one of the key curses you need, as I mentioned, and you use it in many places.


    You are completely missing the point. The combination of Might, Thorns, and Concentration makes your skeles and revives absolutetely deadly. Your mages add some nice damage, but are not doing much compared too your skeles. Infinity is the wrong weapon to use on a Pure Summon nec. It's all about the melee damage, not the elemental damage.


    You don't need confuse because in any fight that lasts more than a few seconds your Delirium will just automatically do that for you. But Attract can be very useful at times. Your right though, if you want 2 more points in your bone wall at level 94 or so you can skip those. I chose the ability to use Attract if I need it.


    Actually my level 26 Bone Spear is doing 696-734 right now at level 94. It makes a very noticeable differnce when you use it and everything dies a lot faster, but I rarely bother. Any points in Corpse Explosion are a complete waste, mine is level 17 right now and is immensely powerful. Golem Mastery is equally worthless for this build. There are times when you need that Bone Spear.

    Can your Summon nec go absolutely anywhere except Ubers in a 6-8 player game and do most (if not all from what I am reading in other threads) Ubers in a single player game? This one can. I have been using this same nec for several years now, I'm not guessing here...


    Why? All it does is increase the radius. Mine still works great in lower player games, lays waste to everything fast whenever the skeles don't do that all by themselves. No matter how many points you put into it, it won't be any better in 6-8 player games. It's not worth more than one point in this build. Yours is very different, we are talking about mine.


    You can't afford Golems, and with the "Pure Summoner" build one of your skeles is far more powerful than any of your Golems could be. Since you have 16-17 of them out there, the wimpy Golem is really more of just another target to take hits. The Fire Golem attracts things to hit it, and is by far the best Golem with only 1 point in golem and mastery, so obviously that's the one to use for this build.


    You need 106 for the Upped Homu anyway, so why wouldn't you wear Archon? You'll have the equivilant of 1500-1600 life, and pretty much never be hit by anything anyway, so what are you wanting to give up that very useful def for more life that you have absolutely no use for?


    Did you even read what I wrote? My response here is to simply re-read the part on the belt choice.


    I teleport everywhere I go with this guy, I never need any potions because of it. I really don't think you actually read this...


    This is primarily an MF character, you need the 45+ MF from the War Travs to be over 300MF.


    I mentioned using Um if you are rich. Defense is very important, you are just wrong about that.


    It's an MF character, he needs MF.


    Well, now that we've gone over your build, you might try reading mine, because it doesn't seem like you actually did.


    Not really, I've been using this "Pure Summoner" build for several years now and it is the only build I know of in any class that can go anywhere and do anything, even in high player games. You really are invincible unless you make mistakes that really are hard to make. The way you make a Summon Nec really isn't relevant too it.



     
  6. KavikKang

    KavikKang IncGamers Member

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    You do if you want to solo the highest levels of the game in 6-8 player games...



     
  7. Bulgarian

    Bulgarian Banned

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    No, corpse explosion pretty much takes care of it.



     
  8. Demonic Angel Rules

    Demonic Angel Rules IncGamers Member

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    KavikKang there are a few chars that can go anywhere in the game without any or little troble. Hammerdins can go and kill EVERYTHING in the game by themselves. I only know of one monster that is immune to them and a simple switch of wepons 3 charges and boom there dead. Another char is a zealot. Mine can kill anything even if its PI. Amp charged wands work wonders. And he can go in ubers and wipe the floor with them. Bone spear sucks unless you max it out completly. Like you keep saying if your skellys kill everything in sec's then why do you need it. CE is better cause it offers Crowd Control which is way way way better then unsernegized bone spear could ever hope to be. I will say that lower res has its uses and is a good curse, worth a piont. Attract is useful till you get godly gear then not so much. Def does not matter at all to this guy. Hell life dont matter much. If you could make a mana shield necro I would cause then the stat points go in better use. Bone wall is just stuiped to have if you never get hit. Golems become godly when you max Golem Mastry. They are way better then you thingk they are. I mf Baal with my guy and I keep finding IK muals and other juck like that so I make it out of them. If you want to be a little cheap or even a little risky make a Iron Golem out of a Insight. He will do ok damage and get a free arua so your dont have to drink mana pots ever. Thats pretty much it I think you had a good idea with the bone spear thing but its just to weak to actully help you any. Try out what Eilo Rytyj said and see if there is a diffrence. If it's better stick with it.
     
  9. GotFriana

    GotFriana IncGamers Member

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    I ve been reading your guide carefully and also the comments posted after, I think your guide includes some very good ideas, but I must say I also agree with some of the comments posted against some of your gear choices.
    As you say repeatedly your Necro hardly ever gets hit, therefore imo upgrading the Homunculus is a waste of runes even if you have the str to use it, but that may be a small detail.
    Also let s take a look at the auras from your mercenary equip choices because for someone not very wealthy (like mysefl) getting the expensive equipment may be a very important decision to make, Pride grants the Concentration aura, the effect is (and correct me if Im wrong) all your melee minions recieve an increase in their chance to hit (AR) and damage, as far as I know and from my experience, high lvl skelletons and mercenary dont have any problems hitting things on later stages of the game even without this aura. On the other side Infinity grants the Conviction aura, what this aura does is reduce the defense and resistances of all your enemies, even breaking some inmunities, this seems by far much more helpfull for your mages and your damage in general than increasing only your melee minions' damage. So if I had to decide between the 2 I d personally go for an Infinity weapon rather than a Pride weapon to help my minions. Even more so since you already maxed Mages and use them constantly as part of your army.
    Another piece of your equipment I would not use is Delirium, as Necro I want to have full control of the battle field and I personally dont like any other effect to trigger and override my own curses.

    Even if I dont agree with all your guide I think it is a very nice job and thank you for sharing your strategies I found some tips very helpfull.
     
  10. HYKO

    HYKO IncGamers Member

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    Lower Resist is good for party with sorc only since you are using skeleton warriors extensively, it's ok with CE but amp is still the winner

    You forgot infinity lowers enermy defence, which helps your skellys to hit. I really don't think pride is any better then infinity especially you are using Ce

    Yah sure Delirium, but it turns you into one from time to tim. If you are teleporting you do not want that to happen

    You will only know the difference when you maxed it, range = killing power. For instance, in 8 ppl game I got 4 bodies to pop, so I pop them the difference is that 4 body will hurt everything on the screen or off screen 4 times as yours will only hit the "near by" 4 times. Maxing CE will not be waste but I do agree it's not essential.
    mine can

    again, like I have said radius = killing power

    fire, clay, iron are all useful golem. To me, I find iron golem to be the essential for my infinit teleporting and CE spam when i make it out of insight. Clay make bosses aboslutly a joke, but i kill just fine when i use decrpfy

    Def is useless here really, although I do wear archon. It's only because I like it when I can sell it easily. So upped Homu.... i duno doesn't mean much, you see 1000 def and 2000 def is not ganna make a difference in hell..



     
  11. AnimeCraze

    AnimeCraze IncGamers Member

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    LR increases CE damage more for PI's that are not PI/FI, although I would not say it's necessary for a pure summoner.
     
  12. Magical Trevor

    Magical Trevor IncGamers Member

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    Pure summoners are best once you start the game but suck toward the end for egsample if your trying to kill Duriel and yuor minions die then its gonna be a bit hard to find soem bodies same thing with Diablo while your busy summoning he'll blast you with his lightning
     
  13. HYKO

    HYKO IncGamers Member

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    Problem is... they never die...:laugh:



     
  14. bogie

    bogie IncGamers Member

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    How can you call yourself a PURE summoner, you max out bonespear... which is not a very PURE thing to do. A pure summoner is that you ONLY put points into the summon tree, something not many would do as it denies you CE and curses.

    Maxing Bone Spear is not a great move, 700 damage is not going to harm a 12k life monster, it will take over 15 spears just to bring him down, when your merc/Ce/Skele/Mages/Revives could take him down in about 4-5 hits tops.

    Putting Pride on your merc sacrifices the greates minion you have.... your merc. Pride will never get great damage, and putting it on your merc condemns him to low damage. Infinity however, has great damage, crushing blow, helps CE and your mages, and lets your skeles hit much much more by cutting the enemies defense by 85%. My merc takes down bosses singlehanded, and please don't tell us that YOUR build is the only build that can solo 6-8 hell player games. I do it frequently and its very easy. Bone Spear in a 6-8 player game will do even less than i put down, as those numbers were for 1 player games. Try taking down a 30k+ hp monster with a 700 dmg spell. The monster will heal fully before dieing.

    By the way, I happened to read your entire guide, and it still doesnt make sense. Defense is NOT an issue on a summoner, as you should not be hit... EVER. If your beign hit, then your doing something wrong, besides, the Necro as no way of ever raising his defense through his skills, therefore defense will not do much, especially not the +100 or so odd defense that does nothing but hurts your life by forcing you to throw more points into strength.

    Now that we dont need defense, you can just go with a dusk/mageplate enigma, a regular homunc, and a once upped goldwrap for the extra row of potions.

    Thats all I can see for now.
     
  15. KavikKang

    KavikKang IncGamers Member

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    I didn't have time to read through this thread for a while. I posted this partly because I had 3 people asking me how to build my summon nec and wanted a way to tell them all at once. I posted it here and gave them the link.

    To respond to some of the feedback, I know that most people seem to think Infinity is better for a summon nec than Pride... but I've never understood why. I've had both on him and switched back and forth back when people started telling me I should be using Infinity and it greatly weakened my army. I'm sure they would have taken out the physical immunes better, but everything else was slower. Conc increases your skele damage by about 285-300% depending on level. The Might from the merc adds too this, i've never been sure how much, I always assumed 100%. So that's like 4x damage to your skeles, which do 700+ damage with this build, so each swing of that skele sword is doing around 2800 damage if I have this at least close (I actually try to avoid knowing too much of the actual numbers behind this game). 17 skeles x 2800 damage each attack is 47,600 damage each "round" of swings.

    From having tried both, Pride really wins hands down for what I want. Many of you seem to want your merc to be a killer, I don't really care about that compared to getting him to do as he can for the army. I don't care about that one guy compared to the 35 other summons I have up at all times. Much like my choice of a fire golem, whose sole purpose in life is to attract monsters to the army like moths to a flame and then many keep a monster or two busy hitting him for a while. This build is really all about the skeles. If you really want to see something impressive, just raise your 20+ revives of high-melee damage monsters like Urdars and those big red armored things with axes you find on the way to Baal. With this 400% or so damage boost, thorns, and your amplify damage... it's just a literal show stopper, it's what got me here writing this to explain to people how my nec army could drop be dropping everything so fast.

    So I've never got the Infinity thing, if I switch to that I will be wimpy. My sorc has it, I could do it now just to see again, but I remember it was a huge difference. I'm not saying the way I build a summon nec is *the* way to do it, or the best way, just that it's a darn good way and it can go anywhere and do anything. After reading up on summon necs v ubers my guess is I am wrong in the original post and with revives my build will wipe out Uber Trist even better than others... since it seems based on reviving Urdars which is exactly the type of monster my build excells at maxing out.

    As for the Upped Homu/Archon Plate v lower strength options, sure, you guys are right about that if you want every point you can get into life. But, since I've used a summon nec for a very long time I probably only actually get hit about once a month. Really, if you tele-walk the halls with this guy it's very hard to ever actually be hit by anything. I wind up with about 1600 life once I am totally godly (i.e. replace plain charms with lifers) which is way more than i need, so I guess I just like having Archon plate and Upped Homu/Gloves/Belt/Boots (yes, i even up travs if i they are 49+:). I do 106 base strength so by base strength supports my highest un-upped item. Really, I was detaling exactly what I do with my main MF nec and this is just what I do. Don't really need the life and prefer to have "nicer stuff" just for fun.

    As for Bone Spear and Bone Wall, people also mentioned those. I might have just left off and not mentioned that I put the least of my points (when I am in the 90's) into Bone Wall. It isn't really for wall. The choice too me for those final points is Bone Armor, or a synergy for Bone Spear. Bone Wall is a synergy for both, and I sometimes throw down a wall for fun and like for this nec to be as versitile as possible... so I put the final points into Wall mostly because it improves both of the skills I would actually like to improve with those last points, armor and spear. Bone Spear is essential, I think. Mine does around 700-800 points in the end and is very helpful in speeding up the time it takes to bring down the first monster or two (in a 7-8 player game) to start a CE chain reaction.

    Speaking of CE, and this is also related to the Infinity thing, why is everyone so obsessed with making it more powerful? It does all you ever need it to do with just one point. You give up a 300% damage bonus for 17 skeles and revives to slightly improve CE? I still don't understand the Infinity thing...
     
  16. HYKO

    HYKO IncGamers Member

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    Ok, yes pride improves your skelly damage alot but no matter what you do, their AR will suck.
    Therefore, infinity because it lowers monster damage by 85% thats like 95 % for your skellies to hit. That to me is increase damage. Maybe pride still wins if you talking about pure physical damage but summoner has not only physical but elemental, by having infinity you not only helping elemental damage by your mage and CE but also your skellies damage. Infinity wins here no questions about that.

    As for CE, say a hell monster has 5 k life a CE does half fire half physical. Thats 2.5 k each. Now, with amp and conviction you are doing 5k physical and 4.6k fire; thats 9.6 k per blow.
    If your 9.6 k per blow can hit 20 guys rather then 10 guys from lower lv CE thats 96 k more damagae per blow and with 5 or 6 blows you clear the whale screen AND off screen. Where as your skilleis will do 45k according to your calculation at ONE single monster saying that ALL hit. I think this is a very obvious reason why alot of people choose that path.



     
  17. Skinhead On The MBTA

    Skinhead On The MBTA IncGamers Member

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    There is a pretty big mistake in the first sentence - "I’ve noticed that there really isn’t a guide for a true summon nec, and people sometimes ask me about mine when they see it in action." There is an excellent guide for a summon necromancer by Nightfish, and I see nothing in this guide that makes it better than his.

    Bone Spear is pointless without synergies (about 200 damage at level 20? worthless), and you don't give any options for the player who doesn't have access to Enigmas, Prides, HoTOs, Annis, Torches etc.
     
  18. niner

    niner IncGamers Member

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    Fishymancer clone......
     
  19. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Actually, Skellies have pretty amazing AR. It is just with the way %ED stack, adding more of it doesn't increase your damage as much as you'd think it would.



     
  20. Mongun

    Mongun IncGamers Member

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    Well to be fair, I know of no guide which is one for a PURE summoner. That is to say one that foregoes any way of offence other than minions, and possibly a merc. I'm not sure if using curses would negate the "pure" bit, but I think it'd still be closer to a summoner than the Fishymancer which advocates the use of CE for actual killing purposes. Obviously this guide isn't a pure summoner either, using bone spear, but if a druid guide for a summoner exists, one for Necros certainly should exist.

    I imagine something along the lines of RS SM RM, and then some golem would be part of a summoner guide. Possibly curses, debate on whether that's pure, and then possibly bone armor.
    There's room out there for a pure summoner guide :wink3:
     

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