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The New 5-Second Rule

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by TakeMyCrabs, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. TakeMyCrabs

    TakeMyCrabs IncGamers Member

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    The New 5-Second Rule

    Source

    I'm quite conflicted.

    Common sense says WTF!?!?!?!?! about withdrawing consent mid-act. (Not this case in particular)

    On the other hand, the woman could be experiencing pain as a result of sex (too dry, too fast, etc) and is requesting to stop.


    And this particular case, 5 seconds? Really?
     
  2. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    Well it said it can only negate the initial consent element. Without knowing the statute or reading the opinion, it sounds like there was other stuff going on at the time that made it problematic. It doesn't seem to be a blanket rule that it's automatically rape if the man doesn't withdraw instantaneously. When I get the time, I'll read the opinion and see what else is going on.
     
  3. mince pies

    mince pies IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    The law's an a(c)ss. Once it starts you have to make it through to the bitter end.
     
  4. Amra

    Amra IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    Anyone can change their mind at anytime. Nothing wrong with that.

    The legal aspects are quite difficult to navigate though. A matter of "she said vs. he said" really.



     
  5. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    did you even read the article?

    The issue is not that he keept going once she said stop.

    It's that she said stop and "about 5 seconds later" he stoped but then he was convicted of first degree rape for those "about 5 seconds"

    It's not like she said stop after which he flipped her over and nailed her in the bum over the counter while she was scremaing for him to let her go.



     
  6. kernelpops

    kernelpops IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    Good thing I can't last more than 5 seconds! :thumbsup:



    (bad joke, yes it is!)
     
  7. LunarSolaris

    LunarSolaris IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    It definitely raises some very tricky legal questions for sure. It can be very hard to prove rape in some cases - I imagine it would be harder to prove rape in a circumstance where there had been initial consent, but then the consent was revoked. I'd imagine cases like that would be pretty rare.
     
  8. Holysinner

    Holysinner IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    From my reading of the MD Court of Appeals case linked in the blog article, the question of the 5 second delay in withdrawal that lead the earlier Court of Special Appeals to overturn the conviction was a complete red herring.

    The woman had already been repeatedly molested by both "Mike" and Maouloud Baby and raped by "Mike" with assistance by Baby. It was only after these repeated assaults, when she was being held apparently against her will in the car, having been told that she would not be allowed to leave until Baby had sex with her, that she "consented" to Baby (see the facts of the case discussed particularly on page 5-6 of the decision).

    Given that she had already been molested and raped, and was coerced into staying, I don't see how the consent can be considered valid anyway. More importantly, none of the three counts for which Baby was convicted involve the brief vaginal intercourse which she supposedly consented to and then immediately withdrew consent for. The Court of Special Appeals appears to have retroactively excused the initial molestation and rape because she subsequently briefly consented (under coercion) and then withdrew consent. Utterly bizzare.

    Baby of course testified that the only sexual contact (by either him or Mike) that he witnessed or participated in was the consented-to intercourse that he extended for 5 seconds after consent was withdrawn. However, since he was not convicted for that act, and was convicted by the jury on the counts the woman testified to and he denied, clearly the jury didn't believe him and the "consensual" act (which I don't deem consensual at all) should not have been cause to overturn the conviction for the earler nonconsensual acts. Though he probably should have been charged and convicted of that act too, and certainly none of the initial sentences should have been suspended or given concurrently, let alone overturned. I hope the remand will result in a clearer conviction and harsher sentence.

    Now, if the question were unrelated to this specific case, and pertained to a hypothetical situation where two parties initiated completely consentual sex, but the woman withdrew consent after penetration occurred and the man deliberately delayed withdrawal for 5 seconds - yes, it would be rape, but I doubt such a case would ever reach trial. Again, that is not at all what happenned in the specific case referred to.
     
  9. TakeMyCrabs

    TakeMyCrabs IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    Reading for the win! This article was on news.google.com too...

    If they coerced her initially, then consent would be impossible to give at all, so "withdrawing consent" never really happened because it was never there to begin with.

    Deliberately delayed... I'm assuming you mean deliberately by mental choice, not biological...

    Hypothetical: Would it matter if the woman withdrew consent for the sole purpose of getting the guy to go to jail? (Unfortunately, there would be a extremely small number of women who would sleep with their male mortal enemy only to withdraw consent mid-way and cry rape).


     
  10. Stevinator

    Stevinator IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    in a rape case all that stuff matters. intentions, when the consent was, how it was given etc. it all matters. that's why we have the courts, to figure out what's fair and see that justice gets done. it's not perfect, but I haven't thought of anything better.
     
  11. TjejKast

    TjejKast Banned

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    Five seconds? That's more than enough for me!
     
  12. Gertlex

    Gertlex Banned

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    I'd post something about this, but the internet is forever.



     
  13. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    Matter how? Matter in terms of whether or not a crime is committed? Then no. But matter in terms of how the prosecutor or judge might deal with it? Possibly. And how would you know that the sole purpose was to get the guy to go to jail? Someone acting so devious as to do this probably would not admit their intentions.



     
  14. pancakeman

    pancakeman IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    I think the other question that needs asking is if such a scenario as TMC hypothesized actually happened, would their be any legal repurcussions? (sp?) Could the woman be charged with anything?
    I guess their could be something, but I can only think of things that the accused man could charge the police with*, not charge the woman with.



    *: Not correct, I know, but I could think of no better wording for it.
     
  15. Ãœdorim

    Ãœdorim IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    Filing a(ny) false report is a crime.
     
  16. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    So if a woman says stop and you don't, it's rape?

    NO ****ING ****!

    P.S. Try timing five seconds. What, are you jammed?

    What's the difference between that and just having sex with him and later saying it was rape? Or not having sex with him at all?



     
  17. TakeMyCrabs

    TakeMyCrabs IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    1. By consenting first and crying rape later after the fact, the case becomes weaker because there was consent during the whole length of the act.

    2. The hypothetical involved the very few and far between grade-A *****es who would do such a thing.


     
  18. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    But no matter what the details, it's still one person's word against another's.
     
  19. IntellectSucks

    IntellectSucks IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    There are many circumstances that could lead to a 5 second delay. Like the guy taking 5 seconds to decide if he heard her right, or if he wasn't sure if she meant stop EVERYTHING or stop one specific thing he's doing, or if he was so overwhelmed with the pleasure of having sex with a woman that had just given him full consent to have sex that he was about to finish. I agree that THIS PERSON should be convicted but I also think that circumstances where a woman would consent to sex, tell the person to stop midway through and THEN accuse the man of rape due to a small delay between her saying stop and his actually stopping would be extremely rare. Certainly each individual case would have to be looked at and judged accordingly.


     
  20. Ãœdorim

    Ãœdorim IncGamers Member

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    Re: The New 5-Second Rule

    Well, yeah. Rape would lead to a delay of halting sexual activity. Seems counter productive to include it in your list, though.



     

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