The Neo-First Religion Thread


well #3 is partially arguable... Greeks made some advances in medicine (Hippocrates and his Hippocratic Oath or whatever).... But then most of it was lost...

War/politics/stupidity screwed that up in part by burning Alexandria and its library I do believe...

Religion is SOMETIMES a result of a good government...
Religion also allows for a government to work in some cases... i.e. god fearing unity.

So sue me, I'm brief and to the point and full of holes, hypothetically.


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Anthos said:
Plum, organized religion is nothing more than a product of good government, as was the idea of one god and the writing of the bible. It subdued the ignorant masses into doing the bidding of the more intelligence people, and it is still working today. Just tell me how Hitler killed thousands of Jews and Slavs without using religion as an excuse, or how modern Muslim extremists use it as their reason for killing innocent people. If you are too ignorant to realize that the people at the top of the religious food chain are doing nothing more than getting rich off uneducated people, then you should just stick to being a follower or what other people tell you. Almost every war has been a conflict of religion or politics, the latter being molded around the mainstream theist philosophy of that country or area. People are willing to die over their belief, even if there is no way to prove they are right or wrong, and that is why religions cause so much problem in the world. The problem is that humanity has this build into them, humans always worship or look to a higher power for guidance. Children look to their parents before making a decision, teenagers follow their favorite fad or musician like a ****ing cult, many adults blindly follow religion without thinking twice. Why? Mostly because everyone around them is doing it, so they think it MUST be right.

I see people who are exempt from this. I consider myself to be. I don't flat out deny that it is possible for a higher race to have created us and our world, but I also don't think it is a good choice to put faith in something as ludicrous as the Koran or Bible. There are many followers, few leaders, and the exempt who I like to think of intelligent spectators who realize what is going on, laugh to themselves at the mass of ignorance they see, and move on understanding that it isn't right to tamper with it. A lot of people find good teachings and morals in modern religion, and I respect that. The average Christian isn't likely to rob a bank and shoot an eighty-year-old woman, but the average urban youth is ten times more likely to do that because they were not bought up with good morals passed down by the religion their parents believed in. I don't have anything against religious people, I just think humanity's urge to worship idols, jump to conclusions and pre-judge others is a disgusting trait that few are able to change in themselves, and religion is something that fuels all of this and more.

Most of Hitler's exterminations were based on claims that surrounded race, not religion. His expansion into eastern Europe that resulted in massive amounts of slaughtering was not linked to some fanatical religious belief, but rather a thought of racial superiority (that could loosely tie into religion, though it was not the foundation of the ideal) and extreme megalomania.

Muslim extremists have killed in the name of Islam- however, they acted on a very contorted version of it. I'd rather attribute those actions to fanaticism, which can use a number of beliefs to incite extremism. Religion happens to be easily exploited by fanatacism; how does that make religion the 'bad guy' though?

Clearly wars would be caused by religion or politic. You've got all the bases covered by that statement. However, claiming that politics revolve around religion is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. Is religion often integrated into politics? Without a doubt. This is because religion plays such a large part in people's lives though, which a government will usually take into account. Taking a look at some of the bloodiest events in recent history, most cannot be blamed on religion. Japanese expansion in the pre-World War 2 era, World War 2 itself, the Korean War, the wars in Indochina, the civil war of post-Bolshevik Russia, Stalin's purges in the USSR, the deaths directly caused by Mao Zedong and Kai-shek in China- the list goes on. Religion can be blamed for some atrocities long ago, the most infamous being the Crusades probably, but it certainly cannot be made to be the whipping boy for war.

I'm an atheist also. I don't wish to become an antagonistic and excessively generalizing one though. It's good to be aware of what religion has taken away from this world, but one should also acknowledge what it's offered. It's not a black-and-white issue in the slightest.


Pierrot le Fou said:
You're acting, Anakha, as if the good doesn't matter because there was bad. I'm just saying, look at the things that religion did, let's give it some credit for that, okay? And people buried their dead before religion, but you didn't get wonderful things like mummification without religion. And mummification is pretty cool.
I've never denied the good things that religion has given us. I just don't think it was worth the bad that it's contributed. I realize what positive things it has provided but I still think they could be done without if it saved us from all the ill it's done.

dantose said:
yeah, think of how much sooner we could have surgical treatment for cataracts. How much quicker could we have started grouping people by illness in hospitals to prevent the spread of infectious disease. how much sooner could... oh wait... never mind *goes and reads about where many of the biggest jumps in medical treatment came from*
Hmmm... how about persecuting people who tried to do medical research such as dissection over the centuries? We would have known a lot more about the human body a lot sooner without the church's interference which could have led to curing many diseases so much sooner. How about people who still force their children suffer with illnesses and die because they think that praying for healing is more effective than modern medical science? Most of medical science came as a result of defying the church, not obeying it. The first medical examinations on cadavers to discover how the body worked was done in secret to avoid being punished by religious authorities.


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Smelly said:
Speaking of religion... do they have a systematic approach to getting new popes? I wanna be a pope! :(
no i am the pope
i also hereby appoint myself Emperor of Michigan


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Anthos, for someone who is vehemently against religion, you sure can do the holier than thou act pretty well.

Just how many wars were products of religion anyway?

How many of you have gone searching for the good in religion? Or do you just sit back, and listen to what you hear in the media? "Religious Zealot Bombs Abortion Clinic" is a headline you'll see in the paper, but " Woman Puts Faith in Jesus, Feels Better" would make for a crappy story indeed. If you only see the bad, you'll never think it's good.

I can argue that humanity in general has done more bad than good. Perhaps we should all be done away with.


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My ode to Sid Meier

Oh, Sid, you make a good game
but why'd religion have to be so lame?
Couldn't we have advancements
based more on extremist ethics,
in the 3rd Civ?

I even got a subtle more-on in there, so I'm gonna blame Ash.
*hiding from trouts and whales and explodey things*