The Neo-First Religion Thread

[Pierrot le Fou]

The Neo-First Religion Thread

10 Reasons Religion Doesn't Suck:

1. Moving Oral Tradition to Paper (Judaism)
2. Disposal of Corpses in generally healthier ways (Judaism, Egyptian Paganism)
3. First Ancient Medical Advances (Islam)
4. Social and Philisophical Theory (Buddhism, Taoism, Christianity, Greek Paganism)
5. A Slew of Ancient Recorded History (Judaism)
6. The Great Pyramids (Egyptian Paganism)
7. The Statue of Zeus at Olympia (Greek Paganism)
8. The Lighthouse of Alexandria (Greek Paganism)
9. The Sistine Chapel (Christianity)
10. Handel's Messiah (Christianity)

Obviously there are more, but I think these are 10 priceless things that religion has provided us with over the years. Feel free to disagree if you'd like, and I'm not saying religion is all good, I'm just trying to give a response to the people who seem to think that religion is 100% bad and we would have been better off without it.

 

[Smelly]

Technology > Religion

Had the human race focused more on technological advances, we'd ALL have our toilets shoot water and comfortably wipe our asses by now. The woes of religion.

 

[SuggestiveName]

By my count paganism won that list 5 points to christianity's 2 points.

*Strips naked*

*Dances around fire*

*Worships the goddess*

 

[Ash Housewares]

I dunno, look at my flow chart and be dazzled

religion->war->technological advancement

 

[Anakha1]

By my count 6 of those things civilization could have advanced without and #1 isn't true. Early homosapiens started burying their dead thousands of years before the first organized religions popped up (gogo discovery channel).

And yet religion held back medical advances for centuries. Not to mention basic human rights, slaughtered millions of people and is the basis of much of the intolerance we experience today.

 

[Smelly]

Speaking of religion... do they have a systematic approach to getting new popes? I wanna be a pope!

 

[Anakha1]

Speaking of religion... do they have a systematic approach to getting new popes? I wanna be a pope!

You wanna live without sex for the rest of your life?

 

[Steel_Avatar]

What about art? Yes, it is in the eye of the beholder. But the RCC was a great patron of the arts. Of particular note would of course be Michaelangelo's work on the Sistine Chapel. One of the great works in human history.

 

[Smelly]

You wanna live without sex for the rest of your life?

Nah I'd be the pope for a day. And then I'd tell everyone religion is a lie. And then I'd run. The end.

 

[SuggestiveName]

Nah I'd be the pope for a day. And then I'd tell everyone religion is a lie. And then I'd run. The end.

If you were pope it would be all, "wear your pope hat" and "put on your good vestments."

 

[Ash Housewares]

If I were pope for the day I'd have to start planning for retaining my popitude cuz that hat is awesome and you all know it

 

[Anakha1]

What about art? Yes, it is in the eye of the beholder. But the RCC was a great patron of the arts. Of particular note would of course be Michaelangelo's work on the Sistine Chapel. One of the great works in human history.

Art... slaughter of millions... art... withholding scientific advancement for centuries... art... hatred and ignorance spread globally... I don't see much of a contest here.

Art would still be created without religious influence. It's not that much to lose.

 

[Pierrot le Fou]

You're acting, Anakha, as if the good doesn't matter because there was bad. I'm just saying, look at the things that religion did, let's give it some credit for that, okay? And people buried their dead before religion, but you didn't get wonderful things like mummification without religion. And mummification is pretty cool.

 

[Anthos]

Also, seven and eight on that list have been destroyed for years, only existing for 10 or so years after being built before being destroyed by armies or nature's wrath. The Great Pyramid is the only Wonder left standing, and the only one which was a true technological marvel being PERFECTLY aligned with the magnetic poles and cosmos, which is why it is still studied fervently today because the Egyptians didn't even have the wheel when they built that pyramid.

Most of the Wonders are nothing more than large structures. The lighthouse was just that...a lighthouse for the port town of Alexandria. Nothing more. Intrestingly enough, however, the Spanish, French and Italian word for lighthouse is "phare" or "pharo" or something along those lines.

And religion is the bane of our existence. It is the cause of corruption, war, thievery, genocide and myriad other crimes against humanity. All in the name of a god or higher power. And in no way am I saying scientific study is any better. Humanity's flaw of intellectual overreach has always been a problem that caused someone to suffer. We look for the meaning of life, leaving a wake of senseless violence and destruction in the path, and we all know deep down inside there is no right or wrong answer, and most likely no god that created EVERYTHING in the known universe. The way I see it, the meaning of life is when a rabbit is caught by a fox. The rabbit struggles in the jaws of the fox, but to no avail, it realizes it can do nothing and then understands the meaning of life.

 

[Plum]

I'll add Gregor Mendel's offerings to today's science (that may fall under medicine, though not Islam) to the list. Also, as a slightly lesser and arguable contribution, the maintainence by some of universities during the Dark Ages.

Anthos, care to explain how you figure that religion was the source of those crimes?

 

[piff]

Does anyone plan on refuting the load of ancient evidence that the Jews recorded? Personally, I think that's the most important contribution on that list, and I want to see if anyone can counter that, too.

 

[Smelly]

The way I see it, the meaning of life is when a rabbit is caught by a fox. The rabbit struggles in the jaws of the fox, but to no avail, it realizes it can do nothing and then understands the meaning of life.

I'll be the fox, indulging on just how good it is to eat the rabbit. Ahh yes, the meaning of life. Tastes like chicken.

 

[Anthos]

Plum, organized religion is nothing more than a product of good government, as was the idea of one god and the writing of the bible. It subdued the ignorant masses into doing the bidding of the more intelligence people, and it is still working today. Just tell me how Hitler killed thousands of Jews and Slavs without using religion as an excuse, or how modern Muslim extremists use it as their reason for killing innocent people. If you are too ignorant to realize that the people at the top of the religious food chain are doing nothing more than getting rich off uneducated people, then you should just stick to being a follower or what other people tell you. Almost every war has been a conflict of religion or politics, the latter being molded around the mainstream theist philosophy of that country or area. People are willing to die over their belief, even if there is no way to prove they are right or wrong, and that is why religions cause so much problem in the world. The problem is that humanity has this build into them, humans always worship or look to a higher power for guidance. Children look to their parents before making a decision, teenagers follow their favorite fad or musician like a ****ing cult, many adults blindly follow religion without thinking twice. Why? Mostly because everyone around them is doing it, so they think it MUST be right.

I see people who are exempt from this. I consider myself to be. I don't flat out deny that it is possible for a higher race to have created us and our world, but I also don't think it is a good choice to put faith in something as ludicrous as the Koran or Bible. There are many followers, few leaders, and the exempt who I like to think of intelligent spectators who realize what is going on, laugh to themselves at the mass of ignorance they see, and move on understanding that it isn't right to tamper with it. A lot of people find good teachings and morals in modern religion, and I respect that. The average Christian isn't likely to rob a bank and shoot an eighty-year-old woman, but the average urban youth is ten times more likely to do that because they were not bought up with good morals passed down by the religion their parents believed in. I don't have anything against religious people, I just think humanity's urge to worship idols, jump to conclusions and pre-judge others is a disgusting trait that few are able to change in themselves, and religion is something that fuels all of this and more.

 

[dantose]

And yet religion held back medical advances for centuries.

yeah, think of how much sooner we could have surgical treatment for cataracts. How much quicker could we have started grouping people by illness in hospitals to prevent the spread of infectious disease. how much sooner could... oh wait... never mind *goes and reads about where many of the biggest jumps in medical treatment came from*

 

[Smelly]

It's hard to really judge from that standpoint. Sure, you and I may basically know in our hearts that religion is what it is, but how would it fare to the religious? People who have been brought up religiously, believing the things they do, would go into a riot if they were told everything is not as it seems. I may be a spectator, but I sure as hell am smart enough to know that I'm the same shoes as a religious person is. Religion can also be an escape from some people. The idea of dying, and then "game over" is something a lot of people would not want to accept.

"Children look to their parents before making a decision, teenagers follow their favorite fad or musician like a ****ing cult, many adults blindly follow religion without thinking twice. Why? Mostly because everyone around them is doing it, so they think it MUST be right." - Anthos

Well, you're partly right there. I think that is all based on the amount of intelligence of the involved parties. I'm not saying that smart people are all athiest, because that's simply not the case. I think, however, that the more you learn about religion, the more unlikely religions become.

"There are many followers, few leaders, and the exempt who I like to think of intelligent spectators who realize what is going on, laugh to themselves at the mass of ignorance they see, and move on understanding that it isn't right to tamper with it." - Anthos

Here I see where you're getting at, but then I tie this in to the people who take advantage of the religious. For example, those Christian channels where they claim to "heal" the sick and dying, and people pour in money like they believe it with all their hearts. You think that guy up there at the pedestal is religious? You think he gives a damn about lying to all those people? That, my friend, is an athiest bastard, taking advantage of the religious... how can I say this without insulting anyone... idiots.

So in all, religion sucks... but then again people suck in general, because most people are stupid when you compare them to yourself (and I mean that for those who think they're at least "above average"). If everyone had a decent education, were raised with good morals (don't tell me morals come from religion, or I'll bite your face), and we abolished religion and all forms of worship, we'd probably be a bit better off. Then again, you go back to the people who don't want to accept the fact that when you die, you die... and thus, we're stuck in a vicious cycle of religion and fear of death. Rambling... off!