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The horror that is American torture

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Sir EvilFreeSmeg, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Sir EvilFreeSmeg

    Sir EvilFreeSmeg Banned

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    The horror that is American torture

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1874823,00.html

    1. Hypothermia. Oh noes! Turning the heat down! Sheesh. We're not going to kill the bastard, we want him to talk. When you're really cold you can't resist anything. I know first hand what hypothermia is. Not the pissant shivers most people think of. I'm talking about damn near freezing to death in the dead of an Alaskan winter. Yeah, make the bastard cold. It's not going to hurt him

    2. Standing for a long time. The military calls that gathering for muster and inspections. I call it my last job - where I stood for 9-12 hours a day on a concrete floor. Oh the agony!

    3. Sleep deprivation. I'm a parent. This isn't torture.

    4. Attention grab. Oh the horror! Grab the scumbag by his shirt forcefully! OMG you might winkle his shirt! YOU BASTARD!!!

    5. Open hand slapping. Give me a break. I've been slapped in bars.

    6. Belly slap. HELP! HELP! I'M BEING OPPRESSED!

    7. Light and sound manipulation. Strobes, funky lights, blasting The Red Hot Chili Peppers, etc. Maybe they have a point with the music. :laugh:

    This is the limit of what we're doing. Tell me, how does this compare to thumb screws, blowtorches, bamboo under the nails, acid baths, being fed into plastic shredders, impaling, severe beatings, whippings, cutting, etc?

    How do you compare being slapped with having your balls chewed off by a dog? Or your nails ripped out? Or the many other things well known to those amongst us with nasty streaks?

    Do you want us to tickle them with feathers and sing off key? Use the *shock* COMFY CHAIR???:yikes:
     
  2. myleftfoot

    myleftfoot IncGamers Member

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    What about abu gharib (sp)? Or is that forgotten about?
     
  3. alexzed

    alexzed IncGamers Member

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    To use your own logic, Smeg....
    Thumb Screws. Oh noe. My thumbs are being pinched...this is almost as bad as the time I couldn't get a thimble off my finger!

    Blowtorces. I use those to light my smokes. What's the big deal?

    Bamboo - Oh dear...I have a splinter...this is so painful. Torturous.

    Acid baths - Oh boo...the ph level in my tub is just below 7...my poor poor skin.

    I'm sure you get my drift. You can belittle anything. Stop trying to justify your country's war crimes through jokes.
     
  4. HAMC8112

    HAMC8112 IncGamers Member

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    He cannot be otherwise, for he is a patriot.
     
  5. Ariadne

    Ariadne IncGamers Member

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  6. Talga Vasternich

    Talga Vasternich IncGamers Member

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    ECI - just face the facts.
    To some people there is no valid way to obtain information from someone unwilling to give up information. Any sort of coercion is inhumane.
    Especialy if done by the USA.:rolleyes:
     
  7. Pier

    Pier IncGamers Member

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    The USA is prohibited from using torture on prisoners by the Geneva Convention.

    Grr pIER
     
  8. Talga Vasternich

    Talga Vasternich IncGamers Member

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    define torture (without quoting the Geneva Convention)

    then define coercion
     
  9. alexzed

    alexzed IncGamers Member

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    How long is a piece of string?
     
  10. Pitboss_2000

    Pitboss_2000 IncGamers Member

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    If none of this is bad, I might as well practice it on your kids, right? How cold do they like it, you think?
     
  11. Drosselmeier

    Drosselmeier IncGamers Member

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    That's funny. I distinctly remember seeing pictures of prisoners bleeding, attached to electrical wiring, sexually abused, et cetera.

    Guess that makes your military a bunch of ****ing liars and you a pretty gullible falla.
     
  12. S Z

    S Z IncGamers Member

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    Silly Dross. They weren't torturing them at Abu Graib because they weren't actively seeking information from them.
     
  13. Talga Vasternich

    Talga Vasternich IncGamers Member

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    This is exactly the answer I expected.
    No one who complains about the interrogation practices being used will define what torture is or what is an acceptable form of interrogation.
    I wonder why you're all so reluctant to do that?
     
  14. Ikeren

    Ikeren IncGamers Member

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    I believe you are doing that too. "The story" doesn't cover it, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening. Admittedly, I am biased towards believing that the U.S would use torture. Admittedly, you are biased towards believing that the extent of U.S torture is playing bad music and strobe lighting. Wonder which of us is more biased?
     
  15. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy IncGamers Member

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    Difficult to explain how the conducts that you've described could lead to this:

    "Of the 108 deaths of prisoners in custody in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2002, at least 26 were classified as homicides, including cases where people were tortured, beaten, frozen or suffocated to death."
    http://www.merip.org/mero/mero120905.html



    Of course, what we're really worried about is whether the CIA can abduct and torture Americans, since they've no problem doing it to our German allies.

    "Even as Bush issued his latest denial on December 6, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was issuing a “non-apology†in Germany for the CIA’s abduction and detention in Afghanistan of the German citizen Khalid al-Masri, who they WROINGLY suspected of complicity in terrorism and who is now suing the CIA alleging that he was tortured while in custody."
    http://www.merip.org/mero/mero120905.html
     
  16. RevenantsKnight

    RevenantsKnight IncGamers Member

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    Personally, I think the trick with giving a definition of "torture" in this case is that it is a subjective definition, sometimes to a rather large degree. The Oxford English Dictionary, for example, defines it as "the infliction of severe bodily pain, as punishment or a means of persuasion" or "severe or excruciating pain or suffering (of body or mind); anguish, agony, torment; the infliction of such." Given that "severe" will vary from person to person, I don't think you can offer a definitive list of what you can and can't do as interrogation tactics based on a definition of the word "torture."

    That aside, I'm probably not the person you were looking for to give a definition, but here goes my view: "torture" in the case of interrogations is the use of methods that have a reasonable probability of causing lasting harm, physical or otherwise, to the persons of interest. It should be noted, though, that I believe some behaviors are not torture but are still ethically iffy. I don't think that making a subject stand at attention for a prolonged period of time is necessarily torture (unless it's taken to where it begins to adversely affect their health,) so I think a nation could do that and still abide by the Geneva Convention, particularly if there was reason to believe that the individual was withholding information about an imminent threat. Still, I would prefer that the United States of America, as a nation claiming the moral high ground, didn't employ such methods.

    We're claiming to fight for higher principles. We had better follow through by doing so as well.

    Probably neither of you. However, if you wish to actually make the claim that the US military is using thumbscrews and the like, the burden of proof is on your side, not Talga's.
     
  17. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy IncGamers Member

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    "The United States is a signatory to the Torture Convention of 1984, which forbids torture (defined as the inflicting of "severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental" for purposes including obtaining information) as well as "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment."
    http://www.crimesofwar.org/special/afghan/notabovethelaw.html

    The War Crimes Act of 1996 (18 U.S.C. § 2441) makes it a criminal offense for U.S. military personnel and U.S. nationals to commit war crimes as specified in the 1949 Geneva Conventions. War crimes under the act include grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions. It also includes violations of common Article 3 to the Geneva Conventions, which prohibits “violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; …outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment.
    http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/24/usint8614.htm


    A federal anti-torture statute (18 U.S.C. § 2340A), enacted in 1994, provides for the prosecution of a U.S. national or anyone present in the United States who, while outside the U.S., commits or attempts to commit torture. Torture is defined as an “act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control.†A person found guilty under the act can be incarcerated for up to 20 years or receive the death penalty if the torture results in the victim’s death.
    http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/24/usint8614.htm


    The Fourth Geneva Convention safeguards so-called “protected persons,†most simply described as detained civilians. Detainees must at all times be humanely treated (Geneva III, art. 13, Geneva IV, art. 27). Detainees may be questioned, but any form of “physical or mental coercion†is prohibited (Geneva III, art. 17; Geneva IV, art. 31).

    Detainees in an armed conflict or military occupation are also protected by common article 3 to the Geneva Conventions. Article 3 prohibits “[v]iolence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; …outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment.â€

    Even persons who are not entitled to the protections of the 1949 Geneva Conventions (such as some detainees from third countries) are protected by the “fundamental guarantees†of article 75 of Protocol I of 1977 to the Geneva Conventions. The United States has long considered article 75 to be part of customary international law (a widely supported state practice accepted as law). Article 75 prohibits murder, “torture of all kinds, whether physical or mental,†“corporal punishment,†and “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, … and any form of indecent assault.â€
    http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/24/usint8614.htm

    (1) “torture†means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
    (2) “severe mental pain or suffering†means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
    (A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
    (B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
    (C) the threat of imminent death; or
    (D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
    (3) “United States†means the several States of the United States, the District of Columbia, and the commonwealths, territories, and possessions of the United States.
    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002340----000-.html
     
  18. Sir EvilFreeSmeg

    Sir EvilFreeSmeg Banned

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    And we sent the people that did it to prison. But don't let the facts get in the way.
     
  19. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

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    Actually, an old friend once told me a neat torture technic (some sort of Iranian stuff)

    Shave a person's head bald.

    You place the person on a chair alone in the middle of a dark room, you make sure the person can't move any bodypart at all, not even the head or any finger, the chair is well attached to the floor and can't be moved either.

    Next step: let water drop from a hole in the ceiling on top of the person (only one drop every second or two).

    Now watch the person.

    According to real life tests, most person tend to go insane after 12 hours, and after 24 hours, the continuous dripping of water on the exact same spot of your head kinda softens/penetrates your skin/skull and you die when the dripping is continued on your brains.

    Who can beat that? :wink3:
     
  20. Sir EvilFreeSmeg

    Sir EvilFreeSmeg Banned

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    That's a load of crap. Water cannot do that.

    However using the water torture does work and quickly. It's measured in hours, not days. The important thing to do is make sure it hits them in the face. Preferably in the nostril.
     

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