The Gardener Mancer

darnocpdx

Diabloii.Net Member
The Gardener Mancer

K well typically I don't like gear specfic builds, however I find this one quite interesting: First the Gear- since it's the basis of the build (yes it's expensive), only the important stats of the gear are discussed. I'll be first to admit that I havent tried this or am I rich enough to if I wanted to (Ill gladly accept donations to try though)

I choose the name gardener cause in essence this build will mow over all but the physical immune. The IM is the Toro riding mower, while you sand behind and dole out the pesicides while landscaping the levels and of course thorns is a plant (ask is bramble and Heart of the Oak) refernce.

Gear

Bramble (body Armor)- Level 13 Spirt of the barbs (290% Return damage) level 15-21 Thorns Aura (810-1050% thorns damage) +25-50% poison spell damage.

Breath of the Dying (weapon) - 50% chance to cast Nova per kill.
Metal Grid Ammy- Level 22 Iron Golem

Natures Peace- (level 5 Oak Sage)

Recomended 3 pieces of Trangs as well Gloves, Head and other for the +25% posion damage, -25 target PR) Though Homu will do you quite well as well.

Hwanins Refuge (socketed with either +resists or +Hp)- For prefered IM.
Blackhorns face for bosses *light absorb handly with D and Baal)

For other gear I would recomend lots of resists and some defence against ranged and or damage reduction.

skills:
Now for the skills here you will notice that some skills are totally ignored (ie the ones mentioned as important on the items.

Curses-

1 Amp
1 Dim Vision
1 Confusion
10 Attract
20 Iron Madien

Poison and bone skiils
1 Bone Armor
1 Bone wall
1 teeth
1 Corpse Explosion
20 Poison Dager
13 Poison Explosion

Summoning skills

1 Clay Golem
20 Golem Mastery
20 BLood Golem
7 Summon Resist

Now looking at this with the Bramble Thorns damage, Spirt of that Barbs and your IM (675 with level 2o), and your IG's ((436%)return damage you're looking at having a returndamge % of 2261-2451%. The best part is that for kills with thorns damage you get credit for the kills so the fully synergised level 20 Posion Nova shoud be going off fast and furriously. (a 100 point hit will cause 226100-245100 base return damage, to kill off the IM you're looking at it doliing out millions of base damage, even with reductions (bosses for example) the damage will be huge.

Now lets look at your IM not only does it do the thorns return but with the armor piece it has a chance of procing static nova (25% hp reduction) to all that surround him with out the HP bonuses of the Armor (+100, Im not sure if these are effected with the +hp of GM and synergies so Im not including them) You've got a golem that has 5880 Hp base in Hell- now lets add that Oak sage (+50 % hp) and you're lookin at an IG that now has a base of 8820.

Now for Merc I would suggest Might (I believe the might aura doubles the return damage, or at least it use to) if not then I would go with prayer to help keep the golem alive, since you want the golem to get hit then you don't want defiance.

So there ya go the basic run down of
 

Doomhamr

Diabloii.Net Member
Hi,

just wanted to point this out : 22xx% damage returned, applied to a 100 damage hit it returns 100*22,xx =22xx dmg, not the hundreds of thousands you predict :uhhuh: Would be fun though :lol:
 

Baranor

Diabloii.Net Member
IIRC Thorns, IM and golem dont really stack. What WILL work is Thorns +amp, i.e. thorns returns physical damage and Amp doubles up all physical damage.


so basically, no, what you propose here doesnt work that well.
 

darnocpdx

Diabloii.Net Member
Baranor said:
IIRC Thorns, IM and golem dont really stack. What WILL work is Thorns +amp, i.e. thorns returns physical damage and Amp doubles up all physical damage.


so basically, no, what you propose here doesnt work that well.
yeah well 20000 return aint too bad either, I realized my mistake after the 1/2 hour to edit.

As for thorns not stacking you're right and you're wrong. Each return damage is calculated seperately, IE... it's computed once for thorns, once for IM, once for vine, and once for IG....but reguardless the end result is the same weither you think of it as a cumlitive total or on an idividual basis.
 

Lunatic

Diabloii.Net Member
Baranor said:
IIRC Thorns, IM and golem dont really stack. What WILL work is Thorns +amp, i.e. thorns returns physical damage and Amp doubles up all physical damage.


so basically, no, what you propose here doesnt work that well.
Well Thorns + IM do stack. But usually thorns + amp is better. Thorns + iron golem don't work , but that's because IG has it's own aura (which is displayed in 1.1:D).
 

heilskov

Diabloii.Net Member
(a 100 point hit will cause 226100-245100 base return damage, to kill off the IM you're looking at it doliing out millions of base damage, even with reductions (bosses for example) the damage will be huge.)


erhmm... 245,100 dmg from a 100 hit would require a % return of 245100% return dmg.

---------------

after DoomHamr posted you did ur calc. horriably wrong:

you got it to this : ( I have no idea how u did this after DoomHamr showed you how to calc. it )

yeah well 20000 return aint too bad either, I realized my mistake after the 1/2 hour to edit.

----------------


2451% returned x 100 hp of dmg = 100 x 24,51 = 2451 dmg returned

and as Baranor said they dont stack so this would never be possiable, point is this idea wont work.
 

heilskov

Diabloii.Net Member
Curses-

1 Amp
1 Dim Vision
1 Confusion
10 Attract
20 Iron Madien

Poison and bone skiils
1 Bone Armor
1 Bone wall
1 teeth
1 Corpse Explosion
20 Poison Dager
13 Poison Explosion

Summoning skills

1 Clay Golem
20 Golem Mastery
20 BLood Golem
7 Summon Resist



this is what you posted.... its more than 110 skill points (max attainable), you posted a 118 skill point useage suggestion for that build which isnt possiable.

quick note, bloodgolem doesnt leech back from returned dmg anymore.
 

darnocpdx

Diabloii.Net Member
heilskov said:
Curses-

1 Amp
1 Dim Vision
1 Confusion
10 Attract
20 Iron Madien

Poison and bone skiils
1 Bone Armor
1 Bone wall
1 teeth
1 Corpse Explosion
20 Poison Dager
13 Poison Explosion

Summoning skills

1 Clay Golem
20 Golem Mastery
20 BLood Golem
7 Summon Resist



this is what you posted.... its more than 110 skill points (max attainable), you posted a 118 skill point useage suggestion for that build which isnt possiable.

quick note, bloodgolem doesnt leech back from returned dmg anymore.

Yes I wrote it kinda in a hurry, take away points from the posion synergies to get to 111 (the max 99+12).

Read the guide you don't use BG,he's there solely to boost the HP of your IG.

Likewise if IM and IG don't stack save the 19 points from IM then reboost your poison synergies, or skip the IM (and the ring) and simply pump up a clay, if you do the clay instead you wont need as many points in SR either. I personally would drop the IG (go for clay)and pump the curses ...IM and attract do wonders together, and pump CE a little too.
 

Necrochild313

Diabloii.Net Member
Interesting build, Perhaps Natures Peace is a bad idea as for some reason poison nova registers with it and it's "Rest in Peace" property. That's not a huge lump to jump, but might be annoying for if/when you decide to clear crowds with CE.

Perhaps adding in angelics with some Demon Limb love might make you an effective meleemancer as well, since IG doesn't seem to agree with your thorns aura (perhaps gumby will do). Theres nothing wrong with a meleemancer using botd ;), and having a built in life tap (no exile/dracs needed)

I've toyed around with a similar build in SP, but I didn't go the extra step to think about the damage return being YOUR damage, that is very nice.

Overall with the critiques added in place I find this guide to be very nice, and I may find myself making one on the realms shorty :)

Bravo :clap:
 

Phyrexial

Diabloii.Net Member
Have you actually tried killing anything in hell with IM? Or even IM and thorns together? It doesn't really work anymore. At all. You're much better off Amping things and having skels kill things with a Might/Fanata aura. As an added bonus, Amp increases CE damage which will easily increase your kill rate with even 1 point invested.

Also, attract has a pitiful duration in hell.

I really think you should have tried this build out before you posted this.
 

darnocpdx

Diabloii.Net Member
Phyrexial said:
Have you actually tried killing anything in hell with IM? Or even IM and thorns together? It doesn't really work anymore. At all. You're much better off Amping things and having skels kill things with a Might/Fanata aura. As an added bonus, Amp increases CE damage which will easily increase your kill rate with even 1 point invested.

Also, attract has a pitiful duration in hell.

I really think you should have tried this build out before you posted this.
When was the last time you used a level 20 IM or attract in any level of difficulty? Not to mention the other thorns damage that would apply.

As I noted in my first post I'll be more than happy to try it you got the gear I can borrow/have?

And realyy CE isn't necessary, It was an after thought with a golem problem that was brought up (though with the static field I would still consider using IM as described and use amp over my golem, while keeping the flanks busy with attract/IM. what many seem to be also missing is the point that those thorns deaths count as "your" kill so you are also spamming Nova's at no mana costs once the beasties start falling, as far as durration of Attract you can simply recast it. It would start slow but once the novas started the deaths would speed up quick on all but the poison immunes. Even without IM and IG mingling the return damage would still be 1500%+ without amp. They hit your golem for 100(about average physical hit in hell) you'd do 1500 damage, add an amp 3000+ at that rate nearly everything falls with 1-4 hits against the golem. Once the golems have taken out the primary group (with your procing nova) he'd spped off to the next group to the flanks which is now weakened from those same nova's and the IM damage (and perhaps thorns and ivy) while you had them busy with attract. Of course if you were smart you'd toss in confusse every now and then to keep the beasties heading your way (it attracts beastes from preaty far off screen.) It would be slow to start, but once ya got rolling it would kill preaty fast. Qiut looking at only one aspect of the play here, its the combined effort of IM and the Novas. Nova need not be 40+ cause the damage of the IM, vica-verca.

Forgive me for trying to mix things up a bit, some actually like experimenting. Some get tired of of Max Vit or Block threads. Some of us find skeles dull at best. Perhaps you should try something alittle different, you might be suprised that alot of the general assumptions that are made on these boards are not law, and in many cases the spells are better than you think if you look at how they are used, and not so much as a spell all by itself, but part of a whole.
 

Mooker899

Banned
What does "Slain monsters rest in peace" exactly mean, I got the ring for about 1k extra life from oak and Im curious.
 

dnmorton

Diabloii.Net Member
"Slain monsters rest in peace" means that the corpse of a monster you kill will be "used up"; that is to say it cannot be revived, exploded, find itemed, etc
 

Phyrexial

Diabloii.Net Member
Just to let you know, I actually did make this build on Single Player with the utmost best gear for the most part and even with stats and gear that can't actually be had in the game (over 500 into all stats, Marrowalk boots with 100% r/w, all synergies maxed for Nova and maxed Attract, IM) and some added nice things like CtA on switch. Despite all this, the build couldn't even solo the Canyon of the Magi in Hell on players 5. I was making the IG out of an Eth BotD Zerker for fun, it died in about a minute despite me raising it to obscene levels. I then tried using a Clay when the IG died and overall I found that the damage returned simply isn't enough damage considering the monster's regen rate, their attack speed, and their damage vs their life.

I've tried plenty of odd builds in the past, specifically necro builds. I've been on these forums (the necro ones) since the day I picked up D2 well over 2 years ago. Damage return builds haven't worked since 1.09 ended and weren't really very powerful since the days of the old IM+BG combo and before the 50% pdr on all hell monsters was put in place in 1.09 but removed in 1.10.

I'll send you the link to the single player editor I used, perhaps you should consider actually trying your builds before you right a guide for it. Heck, I'll save you the trouble and send you the single player file I created so you can see for yourself. I'll add any items you want me to add as well.

Edit: Oh yeah, failed to mention I added a level 99 Might merc with a Guilaume's Face, Eth Reaper's Toll, and a nice Stone armor. He died also fairly fast unless I saved him with Lifetap.
 

Alex Kerensky

Diabloii.Net Member
I was just about to ask why people don't try out builds on single player. On single, items and such are easy to get via the different mods and stuff.

But, about the build itself, I really like the idea and I may actually build it on Open B.Net since I'll be giving everything away on Closed. It'll be fun. :)

Edit;
Phyrexial, could you send me the link to the item editor please? PM would be best. Thanks
 
Top