The Flaming Mauler Guide!

muzzz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

Saying that CB doesn't scale with /players is an inaccurate choice of words, but not entirely false. I think most people who mention it mean either one of two things:

1) CB scales with life added in later acts/difficulties, but not with life added through /px
2) CB is less effective for characters that dish out enough damage to ease through /p8. (or: CB is capped at 25% monster life per hit, while few of us ever reach "maximum possible damage")
 

Thyiad

Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

I'm playing one of these untwinked and it seems quite slow going.

I've got 10 in fireclaws, 5 in maul/lycanth and one point in the other skills. I'm ignoring grizzly and that tree for now.

Is a snail like pace to be expected at this stage and does the speed increase in nightmare? I don't feel like a good tank, I seem to die even when using hunger and my killing speed is non-existant. I've spent many levels hiding behind a lighting zon.

Is it because I'm untwinked or should I have allocatd the early skill points differently?

Thanks.
 

Antonio

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

From the experience with my mauler, you really need a big and fast two handed hard hitting weapon to be effective and even then the killing speed in hell isn't spectacular. As far as FC is going, even though I didn't play a fc shifter before, from what I could see in the German skill calculator it's very synergy dependent skill. Not sure in what stage of the game you are, but I would play this build by maxing fc and its synergys first, and started using maul when you enter hell(all the fire immunes and everything).

For FC it's speed that matters, so try shopng for some fast weapons, knives and such...

EDIT: spelling errors, *khm khm*
 
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JihadJesus

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

Thyiad, I'd say there's one GREAT untwinked weapon for this build after Act III if you don't mind being a bit cheesy - Khalim's Will. Make one and mule it off, make another and break the orb, then mule the first back on. It's faster than anything you're likely to find until you can run the countess for Shaels in NM which is all that matters for your FC attack which is all your damage at this point, and it's a guaranteed get. I used it pretty much all the way until mid NM when I moved to a Ribby to take advantage of my slowly developing physical damage boost. If you're not okay with the cheese factor, look for a normal Flail with as much IAS as possible. FC is interruptible which can get to be a problem FAST before you have shockwave and are attacking slow as molasses, so get that attack speed up as fast as possible.

It's certainly going to be HARDER to get that speed up through Normal untwinked, but your killing speed should ramp up FAST once you start getting points sunk into FC and find a faster weapon. Leech at this stage is almost impossible to come by outside of hunger since your base damage is so low. You can't really hope to tank too well either until you get shockwave (and hopefully an Insight on your merc so you can cast it constantly) since you have no real defense. If you're in Act II those skeletons will really rip you apart, too - no leech + fast attacking enemies + slow interruptable FC attack = trouble. Getting the attack speed up can help quite a bit with that as well sometimes.
 

midnightvulture

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

Thyiad, did you pump the FC synergies for the first few levels? I'm playing a straight FC bear right now and just killing normal monsters with Fissure until I get a better weapon than I've found so far. Granted he's only in A3, but the slow, single attack just doesn't do it for me either. The high FC damage did take care of Duriel and Andariel just fine though, along with champions and unravelers in the tombs.

mv

edit: a 'steel' flail would be pretty fast too if you haven't tried it....
 

MukTuk

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

edit: a 'steel' flail would be pretty fast too if you haven't tried it....
A 'Steel' Large Axe/Scimitar is faster (11 frame FC vs 13) according to the german calc.

A 'Steel' Large Axe is one of my favourite weapons early-game for a shapeshifter, untwinked or not.


 

Thyiad

Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

Thanks guys. I should have said I am level 30 and in Act 5, although I've been hiding behind the zon for a couple of Acts.

I really wanted to "get back to basics" untwinked but it's looking like my play skills just aren't up to it.

At the moment I have Malice in a Battle Axe. I will see what runes Mungo picked up (he's got the lighting zon and is currently discovering the joys of LF, really makes my kill speed look non-existant).

It's interesting JJ mentioned being unable to tank. That was was one of the things that was annoying me. I have nearly 400 life when shifted and I can't tank?!!!!!one!!!

My original plan was to shove The Stick (Infinity) on him when he was old enough but I'm beginning to think that the Thresher just isn't going to be quick enough.
 

DeathMaster

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

Thanks guys. I should have said I am level 30 and in Act 5, although I've been hiding behind the zon for a couple of Acts.

I really wanted to "get back to basics" untwinked but it's looking like my play skills just aren't up to it.
I think it is not your skill. Unless you change your forum name (you know who I'm referring to), any normal person would have a little difficulty in act5 at only level 30, untwinked. I don't know if you allow yourself to rerun areas, but a few more level up would improve your chance to hit, and killing speed/survivability. I normally reach act5 at lvl36 (normal level for us full cleaner).



 

stephan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

My original plan was to shove The Stick (Infinity) on him when he was old enough but I'm beginning to think that the Thresher just isn't going to be quick enough.
Definitely too slow. You really need weapons with lots of IAS on them for decent speeds.

I wouldn't attempt such a build completely untwinked, as the demands on the weapon are rather high.

@CB argument:

One could do some empirical statistics and write a little computer program that simulates beating up monsters under various conditions to see what really happens. My coding skills don't reach much further than BASIC, but if no one else is up to the task, I'll try it.



 

Flayed One

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

It's not "that" difficult to get relatively fast weapon untwinked. As was mentioned earlier - "Steel" Large/Military/Feral Axes aren't too bad - 10 to 8 fpa depending on OIAS, and 8fpa is definitely not bad. If someone totally have to get a faster weapon, shopping for a better weapon isn't a bad option either. additionaly you could always carry a "a bunch of shaels in a two-handed axe" weapon for fast fire damage dealing;).

-edit- Great guide BTW. Although I'm only half-way through it yet.
 

JihadJesus

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

It's not "that" difficult to get relatively fast weapon untwinked. additionaly you could always carry a "a bunch of shaels in a two-handed axe" weapon for fast fire damage dealing;).

-edit- Great guide BTW. Although I'm only half-way through it yet.
That's great - except that you might as well just make a pure FC bear and not waste any points extra on Maul/WB, because it's pointless. Like you said, it's not that tough to get a fast weapon untwinked - but it IS tough to get a fast weapon that hits hard enough to work for this build.

The weapon demands do make this a tough sell untwinked. I think your best best is probably to shop a decent cruel in Hell, but that's a LONG ways in. Alternatively of course you could just accept a slower attack speed and play it essentially as a mauler with extra fire damage, but that obviously reduces the effectiveness of all those points you sank into FC and synergies.

I'll admit I hadn't thought about doing this untwinked. The weapon possibilities are limited enough to make it darn hard, and I wouldn't be surprised if you end up running a more pure FC setup out of frustration. I probably would if I tried it untwinked :rolleyes:



 

Flayed One

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

I recently made a very similar build untwinked - I call it "Lazy Bear" because it you could make it through game without switching a skill even once. Generally it's just a Fire Claws/Werebear hybrid, so it functions pretty much exactly the same as your build, but the end-game damage is lower, and I don't have to charge up maul every once in a while;).

I used "steel" Large Axe and Military Axe through whole Normal and Nightmare - The physical damage was low, but enough to leech mana, and open wounds helped a lot against rare fire immunes. Hell was tougher. I made a "steel" feral axe, but abundance of fire immunes slowed me down a lot. Then I shopped a cruel Feral Axe of Quickness. Although it only got one socket(damn Larzuk:wink2:) 6 fpa is still very fast, and the damage was managable.

The build is definately doable untwinked, but you have to know where to look for "right weapons" :wink3:

Fire Claws make you much less equipment dependent then most melee builds in hell, and almost totally negate your need for a good weapon in normal and nightmare(it still needs to be fast though)

It would be great if you made an addition to the guide about possible untwinked weapons:smiley:
 

stephan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

I don't call shopping for a Cruel Feral Axe of Quickness untwinked anymore. The time you could end up investing to find such a weapon is mind boggling.

Sure it's possible to do a FC bear untwinked, but you are better off ignoring physical damage then.

EDIT: it seems it's not even possible to shop for Feral Axes.
 

Flayed One

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

I meant gambling. You'll have to excuse me - I recently got back to Diablo after a long break, so I mix stuff sometimes...:smiley:
Like I made 2 steel battle axes for my brand new frenzy barb beliving that they are war axes and I being shocked how come my character won't dual wield them...:wink2:

Anyway, my point stll stands - It's not that difficult to find a 'ok' weapon for the build even untwinked. Even "steel" will do pretty long - the damage won't be spectacular but open wounds help a lot, plus the speed is adequate. It's also not that difficult to find a better weapon then "steel".
 

JihadJesus

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

Flayed, you seem a little confused. First you advocate ignoring physical damage for untwinked play and just focusing on FC, which makes sense since the weapon options are so limited. Then you pimp 'Steel', a runeword with no IAS and COMPLETELY unsuitable for FC focused builds. 8 FPA is NOT fast for an FC bear - you attack half as frequently as a simple shaeled phase blade, which halves your damage over time.

It is hard to find a weapon for this build if you've got a stash to chose from, and it's even harder untwinked. Like I said, I think I'd end up going pure FC if I tried it because there just aren't readily available weapon options. Shopping Cruels isn't that hard, Quickness makes it much tougher but any ED/IAS combo with a decent number of sockets will do in a pinch. You can also reroll magic items in the cube to gain sockets (I think it's 3 pgems + magical item), so you can always do that as well. Here again the resources will probably be strained playing untwinked, but doing it this way allows you to restrict the ilvl of the item (ilvl input = ilvl output) you're rolling and maximize your chances of getting the right prefix/suffix combo (although the sockets are still a shot in the dark). I'd check the in-game item manipulation FAQ for more on that since I'm not exactly sure what ilvl range would be best, but neither quickness nor cruel have insanse clvl reqs so I imagine items from late NM or early Hell are probably your best bet for rerolling.
 

Flayed One

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

JihadJesus - You misunderstood me. What I meant is that 'Steel' is the best thing you can hope for in the beggining without relying on luck.

It's got 25% IAS, some physical damage and 50% open wounds are all great mods. It's by no means the best weapon for the build - just the cheapest and easiest to come by weapon that is doable. 8 frames is by no means fast, but it's not slow either.It's in the middle(in the beggining mind you). You won't get a 6xshaeled phase blade at least untill the beggining of hell, so comparing it to a weapon you can get as soon as normal countess seems a bit unfair. it's simply the best weapon you can hope for in normal going untwinked.As soon as you hit nightmare countess and can hoard shaels I would advice to focus on fire damage and making the fastest weapon possible, but still using a "physical dmg" weapon(steel or better) on switch in case of immunes. In hell the amount of fire immunes makes it difficult - a good physical damage dealing weapon is needed, and although "steel" feral is kind of ok, it simply won't cut it...
 

JihadJesus

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

Ah, I see. I thought you were suggesting it in an elite base weapon as an end-game option (which it actually can be for some builds).
 

stephan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

I meant gambling. You'll have to excuse me - I recently got back to Diablo after a long break, so I mix stuff sometimes...:smiley:
Gambling is a little less impossible than shopping. That's going to cost hundreds of millions of gold on average. Untwinked chars simply do not have those kind of resources.



 

Thyiad

Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

Well I bought a Kris with 30% IAS. That's helped a lot. Thanks guys.
 

pinelights

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: The Flaming Mauler Guide!

Hi there!

Came back to the game after 5-6 years out and started out just a couple o weeks back with a summoner/mf/gf necro hee. Anyway my necro found this weapon off some Baal's goons:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh44/darthgeeku/rarefk.jpg

using the weapon calculator seems with 35 OIAS i hit 6 fpa FC/Maul with a cheapo shael job

http://diablo3.ingame.de/tips/calcs/speedcalc_titanseal/speedcalc_english.php

Gear wise i was thinking

Jalals (might 15ias it)
Duress/Fort Dusk
Gores
highlords
SS or Sanctuary Troll nest
string of ears
20ias/10cb self crafted gloves or Dracs :p

Blessed Aim merc with Insight?

What ya think?
 
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