The Faded Titanassin: A C/C PvM Assassin Guide

strijdje

Diabloii.Net Member
Icebird said:
Personally I'd be tempted to take the 20 points from LS and dump them into Shadow Master, so I have a summon who doesn't need to be recast every 30 seconds.

Chris
:thumbsup: my idea exactlly, LS doesnt kill a thing without it sfully maxed syns and a very big boost to your skills from your gear... Get that UbAR l337 niNJa !!1 :lol: DS is only needed for the CE effect... so stick with DS only IMO

-robin
 

nemar

Diabloii.Net Member
strijdje said:
:thumbsup: my idea exactlly, LS doesnt kill a thing without it sfully maxed syns and a very big boost to your skills from your gear... Get that UbAR l337 niNJa !!1 :lol: DS is only needed for the CE effect... so stick with DS only IMO

-robin
I agree with you but if you change all the skills, that' not more the same char ! :lol:
 

strijdje

Diabloii.Net Member
nemar said:
I agree with you but if you change all the skills, that' not more the same char ! :lol:
euhm yeah ok, u got a point there ^^ but we are just modifing this build to its perfection i guess so :scratch:

:teeth: robin

edit: ow and she will still be Faded, Titan and a sin so, the name will be the same anywayz ^^
 

Fafner

Diabloii.Net Member
Having played the trap hybrid, non-titan, version. I think that DS was my main trap killer, just like with the necro. One corpse and you trigger nuclear chain reaction. I had CBS up to 13 or so, 20 DS, 20 LS and with like +12 to skills I think I was low to middle 3k, which is respectable but won't do squat in player/8 games for regular monsters. However, this build is a boss killer and great for Baal runs (with the exception of the WSK which gets hairy).
 

Crazy Runner Guy

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanks for the great comments everyone!

Right now, my shadow is taking a beating, and gets cast again quite regularly. As normal, and probably niavely, I have put most of my trap points into LS, and leaving DS at one, to be maxed last. So, here's a potential option for skills in question:

DS: 20
LS: 1
SM: 17 after +skills

Has anyone ever used fire blast to up the charges on DS? Is it worth it to put in more points for one more shot?

For your info, here's my skill allottment right now:

clvl 65: act 5 NM Frigid Highlands WP
D-Talon: 20 (27)
Fade: 20 (24)
LS: 14 (18)
DS: 1 (5)
WB: 3 (7)
SM: 1 (5)

She's killing very well, but I am very scared of one certain fight: Hell High Council. They will be lightning Immune, and at least one of them is FE (geleb). Any thoughts on killing? I'm just thinking that I'll have to isolate them like always, and then whittle them down. Once they are low, then I MB/PS them into a wall/pond edge and let my merc take care of it. Any thoughts?

crg
 

King's Specter

Diabloii.Net Member
This is a GREAT guide! You've really got me into starting a 'sin! I did have a few questions, though:

Does chance-to-cast work with kicks? Initially to looks like "no" but later on the guide talks about using atmas for the amp.

Since I never have had a sin, much less a kicker, I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the damage equations. Would this be good (very) generalization? You've got the two parts, boot damage and kick damage. The boot damage works very much like any other character's damage model, but with no on-weapon damage or +damage used. To this is added the kick damage, which uses some goofy combo of the skill bonus, dex, and str. Is this more-or-less correct?

Would Laying of Hands be a decent glove to use? Nice IAS and BIG damage to demons. Not for use in act2. :)

Thanks for the great guide!

-KS
 

Crazy Runner Guy

Diabloii.Net Member
Crazy Runner Guy said:
What transfers to kicks?

The following mods affect your kicks. *’d mods coming from your off-hand claw do not affect kicks

- +X% Chance to cast xxx on striking*
Here's my understanding of kick damage. Your boot is your weapon that your kick skill multiplies by. There is also an added multiplier for STR and DEX. STR affects damage more, thus why I have maxed it.

More analysis on traps:

I with my D-Talon kickassin, I had no problems with areas that have lots of PI's, like the arcane Sanc and parts of act 2 with locusts. I was also on players1, but I used traps to kill everything in there, as most of the time there wasn't a non-PI to release them on.

EDIT: Also, 5 LS traps shooting 10 times can kill quite fast, especially with CoS up. Then once they expire/kill two or three, throw down a DS a and watch everything blow up.

Again, this build is designed for PvM SP, and /players8 Norm/NM, /players1-3 hell (hell is still theoretical). IMO, I will once again have no problems dealing with PI's, as that's all LS is really going to be used for. DS, like mentioned, is used for its mass CE effect.

I will include to above variant, but I am still sticking firm to my 20 LS/20 DS thoughts. Experience has told me so.

crg
 

chaos

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Crazy Runner Guy said:
What transfers to kicks?

The following mods affect your kicks. *’d mods coming from your off-hand claw do not affect kicks
- +X% Chance to cast xxx on striking*

Now, these mods do not transfer to your kicks, regardless of their origin:
- +X% Chance to cast on attacking
I guess this part leads to the confusion about chance to cast yea? ;)

Nice guide, didn't know D talon was such a |33t skill till now. I'm tempted to stop my 09 projs and start .10. Almost. :D

I'd try to add more +skills gear, though. It'd be rather hard, seeing the restrictions on the build (needing 80%IAS, etc...). Might use an Arkaine's (since CoH is a little out of reach ;) ), and stick with Mara's regardless of armour choice. BK band is tempting, but mana leech is essential and CBF is always a desirable property... Could also use a +3 traps good base speed claw as a secondary claw?

Quite an interesting puzzle with the equipment choice. I'd really like to put some serious thinking into it some day. Oh, and i think Naliworld makes a very good point about not over-killing with skill points, like keeping fade to lvl 15 if stormy is used. Its a very eye opening and detailed guide, gg! :D

PS: KS, guess you have a little more variation on ammy choice than most, eh? ^.^ gg 2% chance to cast lvl 5 amp.
 

King's Specter

Diabloii.Net Member
chaos said:
PS: KS, guess you have a little more variation on ammy choice than most, eh? ^.^ gg 2% chance to cast lvl 5 amp.
We won't even talk about what the valor would do for this build. :D

I might try to scrimp skill points to put into claw mastery and use this build to play with a Chaos WW 'sin. Heheh.
 

Crazy Runner Guy

Diabloii.Net Member
King's Specter said:
We won't even talk about what the valor would do for this build. :D
Actually, Valor wouldn't do very much for this build.

I have a +2 valor available for this character, but I have chosen to ommit it from the armor recomendations because it has a clvl required of 85, higher than Andariel's, and it has no resistances. Also, the life granted from the +vita/clvl does not work with BO. In addition, a clvl 99 character wearing Arkaine is granted +49 vita, or 147 life. Lionheart provides 70 stats and +50 life (17 more stat points) and 20% ED and 30 res all, and I have it all at clvl 50.

King's Specter said:
I might try to scrimp skill points to put into claw mastery and use this build to play with a Chaos WW 'sin. Heheh.
WOW. I just looked at the stats on Chaos and I can say is WOW! The FO/CB chances would be going off like crazy, and 25% OW, and that damn much magic damage would certainly help vs. PI's, and you can cuztomize it to your claw. Not to mention the 35% IAS! That extra 15% would allow you to expore other gear options, depending on what claw you put it in. Keep the Jade talon on the second slot and "hel" it to make it easier to equip. I'll definately add a section on this in the gear area. I will however, mention that claws are range=1 and the runes fal+Ohm+Um aren't that cheap. Still, thanks for the tip.

Let me explain the % chance to cast thing: Chance to cast works if it on ANY OTHER part of your gear than your off-hand claw (inventory screen right). Sorry for the confusion. That will be fixed in v1.02
 

wildjinn

Diabloii.Net Member
Chaos is an amazing claw, but the casting delay for FO affects you more than you might expect, making it so that a trapper using a Chaos claw might have some issues.

@ CRG: My other notes are going to be sent to you this evening. Track Changes rules. :)
 

Icebird

Diabloii.Net Member
Crazy Runner Guy said:
Actually, Valor wouldn't do very much for this build.
King's Spectre's Valor might - it's the "how overpowered is that?" 1.07 version.

Chance to cast definitely does work with this build. I"ve heard of a (non-titan) kicker that used a "Crescent Moon" weapon quite successfully. The Static Field softened up monsters nicely for the Death Sentry. If you're using a shield, there's no real reason why you *have* to use a claw, since all your melee attacks are with your boots.

Chris
 

Crazy Runner Guy

Diabloii.Net Member
Icebird said:
King's Spectre's Valor might - it's the "how overpowered is that?" 1.07 version.
That's scary. Can someone post stats on the please? I know how overpowered the .08 version is, but not the .07. Nice find for racking that thing btw.

EDIT: I guess that's why he refers to it as "the valor," not a valor.

Icebird said:
Chance to cast definitely does work with this build. I"ve heard of a (non-titan) kicker that used a "Crescent Moon" weapon quite successfully. The Static Field softened up monsters nicely for the Death Sentry. If you're using a shield, there's no real reason why you *have* to use a claw, since all your melee attacks are with your boots.

Icebird said:
I have heard the same thing. Again, I am tailoring this towards C/C. If I was going for the C/S one, then I'd use a p diamond SS with a CMoon Phase. That would be some nice killings.

crg
 

chaos

Diablo: IncGamers Member
And i was thinking, shield + vendigo/string + CoH or some similar set up (sorry, not familiar with .10 gear) would max out DR, thus allowing for BoS? This could be another option with more flexibility on gear, since IAS isn't needed.

Then again, it'd probably end up a different build altogether. Oops. :p

PS: gg KS @ proper spelling. However coincidental. ;)
 

Crazy Runner Guy

Diabloii.Net Member
chaos said:
And i was thinking, shield + vendigo/string + CoH or some similar set up (sorry, not familiar with .10 gear) would max out DR, thus allowing for BoS? This could be another option with more flexibility on gear, since IAS isn't needed.

Then again, it'd probably end up a different build altogether. Oops. :p
That you are. This build is geared towards C/C blocking, which rocks the crap out of shields, and the 27% DR is enough, IMO.

I'm going to defer to jrichard on this.

he said something to the effect of:

If you need to max DR, then you aren't playing the assassin the way it should be played.
 

jrichard

Diabloii.Net Member
Actually, I'd put it as "if you need max DR, then you aren't playing to the strengths of the class" :)

Nice guide. I have a few titan kickers i'm trying out also. Although i'm going the kick skills only route at this time with maxed Dtalon and Dtail with venom to back them up. A one pt investment in DS also.

The other is a Dtail hybrid using maxed LS and DS. I think they work fine with only those two maxed. They are not the primary damage source. If this was a pure trapper, then yes, the damage is too low. But, as a form of backup damage for immunes and added damage for others, they work okay with only the two.

If i might, i'd suggest the Giant Skull as a leveling helm from 65 to equipping andariels visage. Big str bonus, CB and two sockets to provide IAS or resists whichever you need. The knockback on the helm wouldn't affect this build as talon already has knockback.

Love the Glove/belt combo. IK set gloves and belt are rapidly becoming my favorites for kickers.

The thing i would suggest most when you get to the hell tactics portion (and maybe you already intend this) is to make sure it's stated that Dtalon builds are single target builds. Even if you've already said that in other parts of the guide, i'd restate it. :) Taloners rock against single monsters and tend to be worse against crowds. Fighting a crowd with a taloner requires very good control of the crowd. CoS and MB are mandatory. They'll do more than maxed DR. This is a hit and run fighter as are most 'sins. Trying to charge into the center of a group is suicide, even with maxed DR, for any melee 'sin in hell. This one especially as it is a no vitality build.

Most other thoughts i'd had when reading this really have been covered by other people.

I do want to make a point of saying how well thought out this is. Right down to what gear to wear at what point in the 'sins life. Nice work!

jrichard
 

Crazy Runner Guy

Diabloii.Net Member
Aha! The guru speaks!

jrichard said:
If i might, i'd suggest the Giant Skull as a leveling helm from 65 to equipping andariels visage. Big str bonus, CB and two sockets to provide IAS or resists whichever you need. The knockback on the helm wouldn't affect this build as talon already has knockback.
Duely noted.

jrichard said:
Love the Glove/belt combo. IK set gloves and belt are rapidly becoming my favorites for kickers.
I stole this idea from your 54-76k D-Tail titan build, if you're curious

jrichard said:
The thing i would suggest most when you get to the hell tactics portion (and maybe you already intend this) is to make sure it's stated that Dtalon builds are single target builds. Even if you've already said that in other parts of the guide, i'd restate it. :) Taloners rock against single monsters and tend to be worse against crowds. Fighting a crowd with a taloner requires very good control of the crowd. CoS and MB are mandatory. They'll do more than maxed DR. This is a hit and run fighter as are most 'sins. Trying to charge into the center of a group is suicide, even with maxed DR, for any melee 'sin in hell. This one especially as it is a no vitality build.
I found this out for the first time in NM RoF. I spawned Maggots, which spawned LOTS of mini maggots, etc. I don't think it helped that there were three boss packs in the area, two were maggots. I took a screenie on the carnage that DS did when all was said and done.

jrichard said:
I do want to make a point of saying how well thought out this is. Right down to what gear to wear at what point in the 'sins life. Nice work!

jrichard
Thanks, that means a lot.

crg
 

Icebird

Diabloii.Net Member
The .07 and .08 Valors are the same - 2 life per level, 2 vitality per level. I played some cow games with Spectre's Paladin. With a druid and barbarian in the group, he was up to 7K or 8K life...

Chris
 

nemar

Diabloii.Net Member
Crazy Runner Guy said:
Thanks for the great comments everyone!

Right now, my shadow is taking a beating, and gets cast again quite regularly. As normal, and probably niavely, I have put most of my trap points into LS, and leaving DS at one, to be maxed last. So, here's a potential option for skills in question:

DS: 20
LS: 1
SM: 17 after +skills

Has anyone ever used fire blast to up the charges on DS? Is it worth it to put in more points for one more shot?crg
If you use only one trap, don't use. when one is out , cast another. If you use both fire and lighting , It can be more easy to play with some. My HC assassin had put 6 points. it's fonction of you're gameplay and you're mana off course.
Crazy Runner Guy said:
For your info, here's my skill allottment right now:

clvl 65: act 5 NM Frigid Highlands WP
D-Talon: 20 (27)
Fade: 20 (24)
LS: 14 (18)
DS: 1 (5)
WB: 3 (7)
SM: 1 (5)

She's killing very well, but I am very scared of one certain fight: Hell High Council. They will be lightning Immune, and at least one of them is FE (geleb). Any thoughts on killing? I'm just thinking that I'll have to isolate them like always, and then whittle them down. Once they are low, then I MB/PS them into a wall/pond edge and let my merc take care of it. Any thoughts?
crg
:lol: only one idea, try to attract them one by one ! my assassin look them getting out all together and I did must fight on all the surface of travincal ! not cleared before, you can imagine council with healer and darklords together :flip:.
my SM was a good tank. and I used BF so I am never near monsters (or I was running)
and don't forget you have dtalon
 
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