The evil of uniques

Ferrous

Diabloii.Net Member
The evil of uniques

Uniques are good for some things....and I like them when I have them. But there is one thing about uniques that bothers me, in which the game could be better off - The creation of uniques creates players who must have particular items to have a dream build. If the main trend trading items were rares, then the trading forum would be much broader and each character be more unique (notice the irony). Rares could be buffed up to make up for the lack of uber sweet items such as windforces and whatever, but they'd be very rare rares, relative to how often you'd find some of those megasweet unique items. I don't hold the same grudge against set items, because frankly, I think it's sweet when a character uses a full set. But rares and crafted items need to be brought into greater trading use than they have been before.
 

Shadow_247

Diabloii.Net Member
1.10 has brought rares closer to the front lines. Remember uniques are unique to diablo 2 - AFAIK no other game has them. Uniques provide for fun gameplay - at first, some people even dedicate themselves to finding every last one. Over time, i'll agree seeing the same uniques being used over and over in the most repetitive builds gets annoying. But there is always a time to move on. IIRC, most Forgotten Realms productions (BG, IWD) are centered around real rares, not so much sets or uniques.
 

SnowDrake

Diabloii.Net Member
Oh rares can be amazingly better than most uniques... if not all... at least on weapons. The problem is no one ever finds them so no one can ever trade them.... they are only the best in theory.
 

Fearox

Diabloii.Net Member
Rare weapons can get up to 450 ed, and that beats the crap out of most uniques. I think the problem is that people only trade for items they know about (and uniques are the same; the variations are rather small). Runewords, on the other hand, could really be tuned down a bit. I mean, Breath of the dying is the legit Ith of 1.10. Too powerful. I guess Blizzard thought "Hey, how many people will ever get a Zod?", but as usual they underestimated the hunger for duped runes.
 

Thanatosia

Diabloii.Net Member
The other problem with rares is a basic flaw in the Diablo 2 economy. Because Blizard totaly screwed gold as a viable medium for trade currency, trading in D2 is only done by means of barter. The problem with barter is, you have to find a double incidence of want. Its not good enough to find someone who has what you want or to find someone who wants what you have - you have to find both in the same person. Because trading is thus so cripled, the only way you can feasibly expect to ever find a sucessful trade is through the 'buckshot' approach. Unless its an extremely popular piece, you dont advertise one item, you advertise a list. But you cant list rare items. To trade sucessfuly, you have to communicate your item in just a few characters, this is what uniques Realy have going for them, their name recognition allows for much more effecient advertising and resultant trades.

Could you immagine tryign to advertise: Rare Phase Blade with 310%ED, 6%LL, 17 resist Cold, 37 life, +1 warcries - looking for Rare Circlet with high EDef, Resist vs all, +Necromancer skills, and Faster Cast.

So out of the 40 ppl in the trade channel, you'd have to hope that one of them has such a circlet. Odds of that? Realy realy realy slim. Odds that that person happens to need the phase blade you advertised? Well, you might win the lottery, who knows...

Of course, you could be less specific in specifying what you are looking for, but then everyone who wants your phase would have to spend a lot of type typing in their big list o mods to you, and you'd have to wade through giant lists of mods, rather then the much more convenient list of recognizable unique item names.
 

Ferrous

Diabloii.Net Member
Thanatosia said:
The other problem with rares is a basic flaw in the Diablo 2 economy. Because Blizard totaly screwed gold as a viable medium for trade currency, trading in D2 is only done by means of barter. The problem with barter is, you have to find a double incidence of want. Its not good enough to find someone who has what you want or to find someone who wants what you have - you have to find both in the same person. Because trading is thus so cripled, the only way you can feasibly expect to ever find a sucessful trade is through the 'buckshot' approach. Unless its an extremely popular piece, you dont advertise one item, you advertise a list. But you cant list rare items. To trade sucessfuly, you have to communicate your item in just a few characters, this is what uniques Realy have going for them, their name recognition allows for much more effecient advertising and resultant trades.

Could you immagine tryign to advertise: Rare Phase Blade with 310%ED, 6%LL, 17 resist Cold, 37 life, +1 warcries - looking for Rare Circlet with high EDef, Resist vs all, +Necromancer skills, and Faster Cast.

So out of the 40 ppl in the trade channel, you'd have to hope that one of them has such a circlet. Odds of that? Realy realy realy slim. Odds that that person happens to need the phase blade you advertised? Well, you might win the lottery, who knows...

Of course, you could be less specific in specifying what you are looking for, but then everyone who wants your phase would have to spend a lot of type typing in their big list o mods to you, and you'd have to wade through giant lists of mods, rather then the much more convenient list of recognizable unique item names.
Are you saying then that uniques are the currency used to get the better rare items?
 

Wuhan_Clan

Diabloii.Net Member
Ferrous said:
Are you saying then that uniques are the currency used to get the better rare items?
Thanatosia has made 2 good points here. I assure you that trading works much more smoothly with a set currency and every item having a currency value, all based on good ol supply & demand economics. Efficiency is the key.
Rares are difficult to trade since most people won't be bothered to read long descriptions. And people can't be bothered to type out long descriptions. Why do you think people refer to Harlequin Crest as Shako? Initials and shorthand and acronyms are used everywhere in real life. Also, uniques have a guarentee that its stats will be within a very limited range. When someone says WF, you know that you will not be dissapointed with any kind of WF unless you are really picky. But when somone says "Godly Rare Hydra Bow !!!", you might be interested and take a look and probably see something you don't want. More often then not, you won't even look since you predict this beforehand or you don't even know that a rare bow could be any good. You won't get this confusion with uniques.

Just try trading a rare item on bnet sometime and you'll see how hard it is.
 
Honestly I don't know why people say botd is overpowered, without it melee class would suck even worse, because casters are so powerful now imo.
 

tl998

Banned
If Blizzard made gambling much more profitable, then gold would be in demand again. Instead of MF runs, people could go on GOLD runs :D

I think if they also gave GEMS more uses then GEMS can also become the currency. Rerolling magic items is a step in the right direction. People SHOULD care about gold. Is getting a set or unique item from gambling even possible in 1.10?
 

Daemonaz

Diabloii.Net Member
tl998 said:
If Blizzard made gambling much more profitable, then gold would be in demand again. Instead of MF runs, people could go on GOLD runs :D

I think if they also gave GEMS more uses then GEMS can also become the currency. Rerolling magic items is a step in the right direction. People SHOULD care about gold. Is getting a set or unique item from gambling even possible in 1.10?
I got a Tal's Ammy from gambling, so yes it is possible.
 

Matt

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
I agree gold should be more valuable. Forget repairs, buying potions etc etc, make that stuff much cheaper, make gold drop MUCH less (aka 100 gold per monster in hell) and make it cost 500k to gamble, with HUGE gambling payoffs (1/5 to gamble a unique, 1/3 normal, 1/3 excep 1/3 elite items, not like 1/20 elite like it is now) Maybe a 1/2 chance of getting a rare, guaranteed4-5 lvl 50+ mods etc etc. Make gambling the most efficient way to get good items, but make the gold needed to do it a pain to get. Then you will see shakos going for gold. Now im sure i didnt get the numbers as they should be, just thinkin about this now, no real though and time put into it :) But im sure you can see the idea here.

-Matt
 

Unsane

Diabloii.Net Member
Shadow_247 said:
1.10 has brought rares closer to the front lines. Remember uniques are unique to diablo 2 - AFAIK no other game has them. Uniques provide for fun gameplay - at first, some people even dedicate themselves to finding every last one. Over time, i'll agree seeing the same uniques being used over and over in the most repetitive builds gets annoying. But there is always a time to move on. IIRC, most Forgotten Realms productions (BG, IWD) are centered around real rares, not so much sets or uniques.
Nethack has uniques, ADOM has uniques.. and sets even (kinda), Batmud x-). Dungeon Siege has some sort of uniques too.. How many D2-type games are there anyway. I havent played any MMORPG's but I bet Everquest and all the other similar games have uniques. Uniques everywhere.

Oh yeah and rares do suck. Even if u manage to get a 510% ed 40% ias crafted berserker axe. BotD would be better.
 

Matt

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
are you saying you would prefer a BOTD over any perfect rare?

How bout this:
40%ias
450% ED
2 sockets

I for one would take that over a BOTD

1. Its better.
2. Styyyyyle points, how many people would actually be wearing that? none. you would be unique and awesome.
 

Mr Evil

Diabloii.Net Member
I would like to use more rares, but with the exception of rings, amulets and circlets I have never found a rare worth using. I don't think it's even possible to find a decent rare armour. Compare that to the literally hundreds of excellent uniques I have found.

As for the difficulty of trading rares, all I can say is that it worked fine in D2 classic.
 

AluminumKnight

Diabloii.Net Member
Remember back in pre-expansion days when rares were the best? They practically became uniques because of duping anyway. I remember there being a bow called Doom Loom that was widely duped, several rings and ammys, lances, etc. So it was basically the same thing as now. Sure, there were us few that didn't use dupes, that managed to find good enough rares to not need the dupes, but it wasn't common.
 

Knightmare

Diabloii.Net Member
We should all be blacksmiths and make items instead of finding. Or find ingredients to make items. <---free game idea
 

Wuhan_Clan

Diabloii.Net Member
That was supposed to be the idea of runes and crafting. You find them, you can customize the way you put them in things. Of course, not as many runewords exist as uniques and only a handful are used. Of course, you don't have to make a runeword. There are plenty of different combinations of socketing you could put in say, a Griswold set. Of course they might not turn out as good as runewords but the option is still there.

Although I would invite even more runewords into the game, I don't think it will solve anything. The reason 1.10 runewords are popular is because they are so different then anything else we have seen before. Giving rediculous combinations of mods. I doubt runewords would be used much if they were mostly like uniques or rares. So the new runewords really were something but people are now saying that they're overpowered or unfair to this or that class in some way.

The problem I see is that boredom can be our own enemy because if these items weren't so extreme, I doubt that anyone would pay any attention to them and we would carry on complaining about no interesting runewords or customability.

I think it is very difficult to bring true user-custumized items into the game. Think about the programming logistics. Then think about the problems in balancing a system where the player dictated the kind of mods he or she wanted. And even if such a balance was made, people would simply be making the same kind of items.
 

Wolv

Diabloii.Net Member
Fearox said:
Rare weapons can get up to 450 ed, and that beats the crap out of most uniques. I think the problem is that people only trade for items they know about (and uniques are the same; the variations are rather small). Runewords, on the other hand, could really be tuned down a bit. I mean, Breath of the dying is the legit Ith of 1.10. Too powerful. I guess Blizzard thought "Hey, how many people will ever get a Zod?", but as usual they underestimated the hunger for duped runes.
Exactly right.

I like how powered they are tho - if there was no rune dupe I would expect only a handful of ladder players to have enigma or BOTD by ladders end.

Reset the ladder ;)
 

Unsane

Diabloii.Net Member
Matt said:
are you saying you would prefer a BOTD over any perfect rare?

How bout this:
40%ias
450% ED
2 sockets

I for one would take that over a BOTD

1. Its better.
2. Styyyyyle points, how many people would actually be wearing that? none. you would be unique and awesome.
I'm not rich enough to be stylish..
I'm not even rich enough not to be stylish.

Let me just remind you.. The perfect BOTD:

+60% Increased Attack Speed
415% Enhanced Damage (superior)
(ethereal too)

Now try to add these mods with 2 sockets..

50% Chance To Cast Level 20 Poison Nova When You Kill An Enemy
Indestructible
+200% Damage To Undead
-25% Target Defense
+50 To Attack Rating
+50 To Attack Rating Against Undead
7% Mana Stolen Per Hit
15% Life Stolen Per Hit
Prevent Monster Heal
+30 str
+30 dex
+30 vit
+30 nrg
+1 To Light Radius
Requirements -20%

If you're going for max dmg that rare would be better, but.. well just look at those mods.

The best rare would probably be an ethereal

Mechanic's,
Cruel,
Master's

*weapon* of

Quickness,
Fast Repair,
Slaughter (or something)
 
Top