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The DayDreamer: The Complete Guide To A FoH/Holy Fire Paladin der=

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by IMCanadian, Jun 29, 2005.

  1. IMCanadian

    IMCanadian IncGamers Member

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    The DayDreamer: The Complete Guide To A FoH/Holy Fire Paladin

    Alright, you all get your way. Everything that was mentioned is in this guide. I mean everything. I love this build, and I hope you will seriously consider making one when mroe gear choices are available. I hope you enjoy this one...




    i. Introduction
    ii. Skill Placement
    iii. Equipment
    iiii. Other Topics
    iiiii. Stat Placement
    iiiiii. Special Thanks



    Introduction
    (Section i.)

    The DayDreamer is a build that utilizes the effects of conviction(- resistance) for two skills: Fist of Heavens and Holy Fire. I made this character so that when I dueled smart duelers who stacked resistance and sorbed lightning, I would still stand a pretty good chance. It is pretty hard to absorb both Fire and Lightning effectivly with conviction on. This build is alot more expensive then a regular FoHer(Templer) since it uses the ladder runeword "Dragon" as a shield and a armor. Sadly, this build is ladder only, although I will try a freezing build for non ladder and post later if it is successful.(Tasty:>)


    Skill Placement
    (Section ii.)

    Pally at clvl 89

    FoH- Max. This is still your main skill. My pally at lvl 89 has 4k FoH
    Holy Shock-Max. The only important synergy to Foh.
    Resist Fire-Max. Synergy for Holy Fire
    Conviction-13. If you go higher invest more points so you can remove offensive aura gc's. Also the mroe points added to conviction will override other pally's making you victorious in duels!(see section iii. for explaination on offensive aura gc's)
    Salvation-13. Once you get your conviction up to base lvl 17 invest more here as it is the other synergy for Holy Fire.
    Holy Shield-1. Sadly it is all that is affordable.
    Preq's-13. Preq's for foh, Holy Shock, Holy Shield and Conviction


    Equipment
    (Section iii.)

    Helm- Harlequin Crest Shako. Nice 2 skill, Life and Mana on level, Dr, and 2 to all atributes. Socket with either 5-5 fire facet, Um rune, 15 res jewel with mods, jah(for increased life) or cham. Tied for first(in my mind)is CoA. Dr is hard to beat, 1 skill never hurts, 1-2 sockets gives customization a big push, and res. Socket with bers, or res if you need. Str wont be a problem with duel dragons.(I tested this)
    Alternitives- More Alti's. A new one: Rockstopper. It is missing skills, but otherwhys its good. Includes Res/Dr/Vit/30 fhr/Good def. Griffons is good, 1 skill, -lightning resistance, %lightning skill dmg. Kiras was another suggestion. It has big res bonus, and some FHR. Id keep one in stash for those tricky times.

    Amulet- Maras. Hands down you need the res. Dragon and HoJ kill it(not really any available from them)and maras gives atributes and 2 skills.
    Alternitives-Seraphs is pretty good. 2 to all skills and 1-2 to defensive auras. Rare or Crafted pally ammy with 2 skills and life/res/stats. 3 to P combat isnt bad. Its cheap, but it wont help holy fire and you'll be sacrificing skills to conviction. This is a bad choice. Only for those who cant afford the above.

    Weapon- Hand of Justice(HoJ). This is a key item in the build. Without it the holy fire would suck bad. It gives -20 fire res and 16 Holy Fire aura. Some other nice mods.
    Alternitives- Alright, ive hears some people talking about weapon switches. Using Cta for prebuff, then putting in stash. You would use HoJ for Holy fire, and then hoto or FoH scepter for FoH. Personally I dont like this, but thats just me. If you want to power up for FoH more, but still have Holy fire on, using a +3 to Foh scepter(white) and making HoJ in it. This is the best option! IMO

    Armor- Dragon. Number 2 key item. This is a pretty nice armor even with the lack of resists. 14 Holy Fire, Str on level(0.375), 3-5 atributes, +5% mana, +5% Max Light Res and +360 def. Ideal armor is Dusk Shroud at 77 str req and about 850 def after runeword.
    Alternitives-Tasty suggested Enigma, for those who love their tele. This would give you lower fire dmg, but you'd have higher FoH, more dr, better def, less str needed(since bigger boost) and...TELE!!

    Shield- Dragon. Last key item. Same mods as the armor. Make in a pally shield. This covers part of the res you lost. With charms, maras, shield, boots, maybe helm, you'll be fine. Best shield is a Sacride Target. Any other good def, high res, high block pally shield works too.
    Alternitives- If you are using a weapon switch build, a HoZ is ideal.

    Gloves- Bloodfists. To make my fellow members happy, I have bumped Bloodfists to the top spot.Life, FHR, IAS
    Alternitives- Magefists come next, IMO. 1 fire skill(Holy Fire Syns), 25% mana regen, and 20% FCR. Now I have heard complaints about FCR and mana not being factors. On the contrary, they are. With less mana you cant charge as long, charging is how you move. FCR, hmm agaisnt fast shooting necros/sorcs, I believe you wanna get the FoH off before you get bombarded by 20 fireballs. Rare or crafts with nice mods. Customize how you will.

    Rings- Soj or bks. Skills are a must since your lacking them in shield, armor, weapon. Soj for mana, bk for life your choice.(1 soj and 1 bk nice combo)
    Alternitives- Rares with nice mods. I like +skills(soj/bk)

    Belt- Arachnid Mesh. 1 skill, 5% max mana, 20 fcr. Best caster belt in game.
    Alternitives- Verdungos. I keep one in stash, for the tuff ppl ;)

    Boots- Here you can do what you want. Rares with good mods are the best but it all depends on what you feel you are lacking. Treehaunch gives res and vigor, making them nice. Sandstorm Treks gives fhr, frw, psn res, str, vit and if they are eth they repair themselves. Water Walks give about 60 life and 5% max fire res and dex. Seriously put whatever boots you want here.

    Charms- Have fun. Includes Pcombat gc's Offensive Aura gc's and res/life sc's and anni.

    6x Pcombat gc(optimize for 10 if you continue leveling and put more into conviction)Life or FhR are nice depending on what Bp's you want to hit.
    4xOffensive Aura gc's(optimize for 0 if continue leveling). If your going to level more dont get gc's with life or good mods. If your going to stop, mods help.
    1xAnnihilus. All thats we can have on a character or we'd be godly. Hard to get so take whatever stats you can.
    Rest of charms are vita, resist charms or FHR charms

    Weapon Switch- Cta and Paladin Shield Spirit
    Alternitives- I have heard of Holy Fire on one switch and FoH on other. Weapons/Shields for this would be HoTo/Hoz or 5os FoH scepter with 5-5 lites in it/Hoz. I would suggest not doing this, as this way your not really even the same build. I find the point of this build is having both at the same time killing(Holyfire and FoH), not switching between them and attacking while having Holy Fire on. Meh do what you want tho.

    Stash Gear:Hoto
    HoZ
    Verdungos
    Kiras
    Wisp, Raven, Dwarf(sorb)
    High Single Res charms(like 11 light res sc), for stacking res.
    10 aura gc's(for beating out other pallys Conviction lvls)
    Stat Placement

    My Gear Setup:
    CoA(Scitillizating jewel of freedom(15 res/-15 req)
    Maras(22 res. My res is fine. I dont need a higher one)
    HoJ Zerk(Couldnt find a FoH scepter:<)
    Dragon Arch(lower str armor is better, but this is what I got)
    Dragon Kurast/33 res/170 base def/55 block(A better pally shield is a must, this one came cheap)
    Bloodfists/Magefists(Blood for good melee/Magefists for casters)
    Bk/SoJ(I like a little life and a little mana)
    Arach/Verdungos(arach for casters/****ty melee; Verdungos for Good Melee)
    Treks(I liked the Vit/Str/Frw/Fhr/Psn res :>)
    Weapon Switch(4bo Cta/Pally spirit)
    6xPcomb/4xOff Aura/Life, Fhr, Res sc's, anni

    Stash:
    Hoto
    HoZ
    Kiras(Res jewel w/ life)
    High Single res sc's
    Hotspurs
    1 wisp/1raven/1dwarf
    Verdungos
    Blood or mage(whichever im not using)
    High res rare rings(stacking)
    Aura Gc's(for beating out Conviction)

    Gear Based on FoH:
    Griffs(5-5 light facet)
    Paladin Rare/Craft(2skill/res/fcr/life/mana)
    +3 Foh Scepter HoZ
    Enigma(Mp,Lp,Bp)
    Dragon Sacard Target(45 res)
    Magefists(More Ideal, Increasing Holy Fire synergies + giving mana regen and fcr)
    2xSoJ(you want mana for teleing)
    Arach(Fcr, Max Mana 5%, Skill, slow target:>)
    Rare Boots(FHR/RES/STATS)
    Weapon Switch(Any bo Cta/Pally Spirit)
    Same Charms
    Same Stash Gear

    Gear Based on holy Fire:
    CoA(Res Socketed/Ber's)
    Maras
    Any HoJ(preferably still +3 FoH Scepter)
    Dragon(Low Str Armor)
    Dragon Sacrad Target(45 res)
    Bloodfists
    Rare Rings(Stats/Res)
    Verdungos(3x-40Vit/15 dr)
    Rare Boots(Stats/Res/FHR)
    5xPcomb/5xAura
    Same small charms
    Same Stash Gear

    Weapon Switch Build:
    CoA(Bers/Res/-req)
    Maras
    Any Hoj
    Dragon(Low Str Req Armor)
    Dragon Sacrad Target(45 res)
    BloodFists
    2xBk
    Verdungos
    Treks
    Weapon Switch +Foh Scepter w/ 5os socketed with 5-5 light facets
    HoZ
    Add Arach/Cta/Spirit to Stash
    Same Charms as Original


    Other Topics
    (Section iiii.)

    FHR- Some FHR is needed although someone mentioned that charge was pretty much interruptable and you become dysnynched. So Not THAT much is needed.

    FCR- Depending on you build, this varies. I believe(along with others) that you should have some on any build, especially agaisnt casters.

    Max block VS Vitality- There are two route to any of the builds above. The max block route or the Vitality route. On the max block route you put points into dexterity to find max block with your main shield and holy shield on. This will be hard for a Weapon Switcher, I reccomend Vitality for you. vitality route is where you skip dexterity and only have the block your holy shield gives. This gives you crazy life which is good vs casters. Most melee isnt a problem, except ww tele(bvc). Use your Dr and FHR vs tehm and you'll be fine. Im seriously thinking of ReMaking my DayDreamer and goin on the vitality route! :D

    Moving Around- For those who chose any build other then the HardCore Foher will be using charge to move. This is good because you move fast, dysnynch and are hard to interrupt. This might require some mana. For those of you who chose hardcore foher, you'll be using tele. With tele you need FCR and Mana.

    Need for skills- This was pretty much explained above in you gear choices with the different builds. People may dispute them, and if you do, please i dont want to here it.




    Stat Placement
    (Section iiiii.)

    Strength- Enough for your gear. Not alot required since dragons gives a nice bonus. Mines at 79, but I used Arch Dragon. Yours will probably be different

    Dexterity- Depends on you route. Enough for max block, or none with the Vitality route. This you'll have to figure out for youself

    Vitality- Rest. As always your remaining points go here. Pallys get 3 life per vit point so its worth every point.

    Energy- None. You should be used to this. Barly any builds use energy points. Your mana will be fine with sojs and stuff. After bo I have craz-e mana newayz.


    Special Thanks
    (Section iiiiii.)

    I would like to thank Weltkriegpally for giving me the name DayDreamer
    I would like to thank LovelyGods for opening my eyes to hybrid pally builds such as the Liberator.
    I would like to thank my D2 USEAST Ladder friends who helped me along the way.
    I would like to thank: Als, Weltkriegpally, TastyChicken_Europe, Batuchka, Rane-, and HeavAngel for all the imput and suggestions!
    I would like to thank HeavAngel again for putting up with all my guides.
    I would like to thank all the people who complained...I mean "Gave Suggestions" untill I finally wrote a good guide??
    Lastly I would like to thank The Diablo Forums Moderators for letting me post here


    Hope You Enjoyed Reading The Guide And Making Your DayDreamer!!!!!!!!!!!!



    IMCanadian
     
  2. IMCanadian

    IMCanadian IncGamers Member

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    I reposted this guides only because I know someone would complain if I didnt post any guides. Althought someone will complain about them now that they are posted. I dont care, I cant explain my tatics, If you absolutly need my tatics you suck at dueling. Please people who have better ones dont complain post them. If you cant post a new guide dont complain...acctully dont complain at all. Please make up your own startegies! God...here we go!

    First:

    Melee- Stay away from them period! Charge away from them and lay Foh's while Holy Fire Deals damage to them. Realitivly simple

    WW Tele Barb(and pretty much the same for WW Sin)- He thinks hes gona pwn you EZ. They all do! But you got a suprise for him! This is acctuly a really ez duel. Face him and lay FoH's. His cast is slow so when he tele's, charge diagonaly away from him. He'll be wwing, so you can hit him with one or two foh's. When he stops and trys again, Repeat this.

    Fire/Light Sorc- Try to keep them off screen, at least at first. Most sorcs use ES, even the ones who shouldnt so it ends up taking all their mana. Use this to you advantage. Both you Holy Fire and FoH will beat down their mana. Once they become realitively stationery it is time for you to get close. Move up and have them on your screen, so you can see their missles and charge around the sorc avoiding their missles and laying FoH's. This shuldnt take long

    Orber/Blizz- You dont have to worry about staying close, because they will come. Come and run that is. When the orber/blizz sorc comes up to attack, wait till they launch and then move. While they wait for the cool down to tele away you hit them with foh. You should be able to hit with foh: when they come, after they atack, and when they run. Never forget: You constantly got Holy Fire hitting them!

    Trapper- Depending on the trappers skill, this might take sorb. Probably not if you charge around letting Holy Fire kill. Trappers are weak. 1 FoH and some holy fire. They dead

    Necro's(stacking summons or non stacking summons)- Non stackers are a piece of cake and a half. Charge away from their spirits and watch for the ocasional spear. Foh to kill Bone shield, and if they try to recast it, Foh! If not Holy fire will kill. Make sure you watch out for Prision.
    Stackers- Stackers are deadly agaisnt foh. They are extremely hard to hit, and most have fire immunes. Now this is extremly hard to explain. Keep them offscreen, but really close so you can highlight them. You gotta get the in the bottom corner, and push your mouse down. You should get the necro himself, and not his summons. Name lock him! and FoH him to death!( I learned this from A_PinkFuzzyBuny, he is an expert foher on USEast Ladder!)

    Zons- CS. Stay away from them. Foh and Holy Fire kills them. Just dont let them come close!
    Bow. Avoid arrows with charge. If you have treehaunch(so you have vigor) switch vigor on to make it ezier to get away from arrows. Evade,Avoid,Dodge makes this a hard duel(and long). Hope fire will damage them and foh occasionaly. If you get stuck in a knockback of arrows, your screwed. Period. This duel takes paitients. But if you where good and killing bowzons with a normal foher(templer), then its that much ezier.

    Windy Druid- You Gotta Avoid The Cane! You hoping to break his Cyclone Arm with foh, while Holy Fire kills summons. Charge away from him and in many different directions. When he recasts his stuff is your time to strike. Hoto/HoZ could be on weapon switch to kill quicker.

    Hammerdin- Simple. Couple foh's, Avoid Him and Hammers. dont get stuck in a Hammer field. Let fire Kill!( Mostly these rules apply throughout)
    Chargeot- Be Walking. Charge has less of a chance to hit. If you wanna put distance between the two of you, Charge away but dont get hit. Let him come at you and hit him with fohs. He is most likly goin to stack one res, use the skill he doesnt stack agaisnt him(obviously)

    Well thats all im doing for now. Im not great at explaining. Most of the things I do in duels are things I always do and I dont notice i'm doing them. This build should be able to handle multiple targets. This is the New Best Pubby Bm Killer! Work out some strategies 4 urself!
     
  3. HeavAngel

    HeavAngel Paladin Moderator

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    Placed in the Guide Thread.
    :thumbsup:
     
  4. Rane-

    Rane- IncGamers Member

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    Not to be picky but;
    - I re-state that the +fire skills on Magefists do NOT help the synergies. Only hard points invested in synergies count. Hence that mod serves absolutly no purpose.
    - Forgot to mention CoA also has a nice 30% FHR.
    - Might wanna run that through spellcheck. Noticed a couple of things like "Anywhys", etc. That and you should always have a space between a word and a phrase in brackets

    ie; "him(obviously)" should be "him (obviously)".

    Didn't want to nitpick but you did this like 30 times :p.
     
  5. dkay

    dkay IncGamers Member

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    can i see a screenshot of this build to see the life/damage/resist etc? looks interesting.
     
  6. Tastychiken_europe

    Tastychiken_europe IncGamers Member

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    yea same as dkay imcanadian, except you got extremely much nitpicking :thumbsup:
     
  7. IMCanadian

    IMCanadian IncGamers Member

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    Umm well I did a Max Block Build, and im remaking to a Vitality Build. I can show you on open tho (I test my characters and see they're str req, dex, life, mana, dmg ect). Umm I dont know how to take a screen shot :eek: Oh and rane-....................I'm just not goin to say anything(at least know one complained about the crappy pvp guides:>)
     
  8. HeavAngel

    HeavAngel Paladin Moderator

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    Hold the shift key at the same time as the prtscn sysrq key and that will print a screen shot for ya.
    Also, go into options check your settings in D2 for your key mappings.
    ;)



     
  9. nightaswz

    nightaswz IncGamers Member

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    Just curious... why not a griffons to up ur FoH damage? This seems a lot more efficient than either a CoA and a 5/5 die fire socketed Shako.
     
  10. Als

    Als Banned

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    griffons lacks alot of things this build needs. Such as fhr/resists and dr
    its a stupid choice because this build is 2 elements not just one.
     
  11. vietl0yalty

    vietl0yalty IncGamers Member

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    it wouldnt be stupid imo... wrong word to use and not to mention harsh... its 2 elements and u can choose to put more emphasis more on either foh or fire dmg... all about personal preference... it is also mentioned in this guide that griffons is an option... JUST to let u kno
     
  12. Als

    Als Banned

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    Here let me rephrase this, it is a STUPID choice because you need two elements instead of one. Focusing on one element would allow you to be ABSORBED more easily, that is why this build is EQAUL in both holy fire and foh. This helm also lacks the vital things such as resists,fhr,dr, and TWO to skills. The foh dmg would not be very much improved from griffons if you are using a weapon switch based build(like i would). And the helm "griffons eye" will suverly damage your resists whcih you will need to get from your helm/sheild/ammy/ and other places that are not taken. Along with those you will need a balance of skills, dr,resists, and fhr. Fhr being the least important. Now your going to say to me why cant i get these from charms? Well lets do the math. This is a non weapon switch senario

    Lets say your setup is
    Shako(15 resists) or coa(30 resists) or your griffons(0)
    hoto(40 resists) or foh scepter with hoj in it(0)
    MAras 30 resists
    Boots:10 resists
    Rings=0
    belt=0
    Sheild-45(best possible dragon)
    dragon armor=0
    gloves:
    now lets do some adding, with your griffons setup and hoto you will get. 125 resists now take away 100 from penalty, you have 25 resists. Now lets say you choce to use a foh scepter you now have -20. And are missing dr, fhr.

    Now lets see with coa/foh scepter setup
    you will have about 45-60 resist all depending on if you chose to duel um it or what you did to your coa(Assuming 2 os)

    coa/hoto or shako setup you should have max resists.

    As you can see 25 or -20 resists are not good things because you can now be vunerable to one fireball or other attack. Which makes your duels even more uphill. You need max resists to duel in pubbys period.

    You need to be able to tank 2-3 fireballs, or take a couple bone spears/spirits or traps. -20 resists and 10k traps is not pretty. Nor is 25 resists and 10k traps.

    I think i got my point accross with this, if not i can go in and show how it lacks dr and how badly it will get beat by melee chars. So as you can see GRIFFONS IS A STUPID CHOICE

    The word stupid isnt harsh because it is not directed towards your idea, it is direceted towards saying that this helm is unusable or junk to this build, and is better suited for another. This is equivlent to say using full grizwolds on an a sorceress, would you call that stupid? Exactly.
     
  13. fredsta54

    fredsta54 IncGamers Member

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    He has build the character and says it works. Your a dick (am i allowed to say that?)
     
  14. Weltkriegpally

    Weltkriegpally IncGamers Member

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    He mentioned it as a possible helm choice. He did not say he used it. You, sir, are being a bit of an arrogant upstart who needs to mind his manners. The whole point of a guide is to give a general idea of what a build is like: skills, strategies, and gear. Everyone should build differently to suit their pvp environment. if he were building to duel mostly bone necros, windys, hammerdins, or otherwise non elemental based guys, then the griffons could be a very viable choice. However, its your call to build what you feel you need. Please don't elucidate on what you think is best when in reality, you should applaud him for at least trying to make a build he had fun with.

    --welt
     
  15. Als

    Als Banned

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    wow getting flamed for using the word stupid... thats a first. Anyways i guess u guys didnt read the last line otherwise you would of got the point of my post. Some helms simply arent ment to be used on certain characters. Do you use a griffons eye on a cold sorceress? Of course not so would you use somthing that enchances your damage when your lacking alot of resists, fhr and dr? Of course not, which is the case with griffons. The dmg bonus is nice but at what price? As i explained above i said it was a stupid choice and people in these forums seem to take the word stupid offensively. lol i cant imagine if i would of said a different word how you guys would of reacted. As my post above explains you need to be able to take a few hits from all other chars and with -20 and 25 resists you will NOT be doing this. So this makes griffons a bad or "stupid" choice(hope that doesnt get flames seeing that i was apply the helm to be stupid on this character not on others) Using a griffons helm on this char is equivlent to using a shako on a necro that is meant to hit the 125 fcr breakpoint and is 20 short. It just simply does not work. You guys need to take a nap relax. its a game calm down and learn to take critism, and read posts carefully before you get all hyped up. I suggest going for a nice long walk.

    Als-

    p.s. Sorry IMCANADIAn for my posts, i simply wanted to get my point accross that this helm is one of THEE worst choices if not the worst(besides a steal skull), i guess people can not read an entire post they only read the big words i put in there to make my point clear. O well not my loss, you wana die from one fireball and die in pubbys and wonder why? Go ahead feel free.


    Wherent some people complaining about the price of coa when i posted it? What about griffs on my realm thats just as bad if not worse.
     
  16. HeavAngel

    HeavAngel Paladin Moderator

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    Are you guys going to chill or do you need a vacation>?

    EDIT: I see no flame from Welt.
     
  17. IMCanadian

    IMCanadian IncGamers Member

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    Als, I am in agreement with you, although it was mentioned in another guide that I should have it as a choice(it occured to me originally, but I didnt believe griffs suited the original build). If you want my opinion, dont use griffs. It is as expensive as CoA, and shako is better then griffs newayz. This build uses two auras, griffs is only a alternitive. The two best choices are shako and CoA.

    Ps,
    No prob Als
     
  18. dkay

    dkay IncGamers Member

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    hmm.. what damages from your attacks are we looking at?
     
  19. IMCanadian

    IMCanadian IncGamers Member

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    I had damages posted in last guide but I think average FoH dmg is 4k. Holy fire dmg is well w/e auradins holy fire normally is.
     
  20. Als

    Als Banned

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    i need a vacation bad.... stupid work.... :p

    anyways i still find it funny that people are offended by the word "stupid"

    anyways if you use weapon switch i fully beleive that you could acheive 6-7k foh damage. Depending on your gear setup. Of course if you wana have 2 auras damaging at a time like this build was intended for and not be a foher with a holy fire aura for being super gay and defensive. Im not sure which works better. I would assume my weapon switching route because it has a 1k damage vrs a 500 holy fire aura. I dont know how many times holy fire hits so it could be that your way is better. However 1-2k foh damage is alot in duels.
    i guess somebody will have to test this.
     

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