The Cleric Quintet vs. LotR

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
The Cleric Quintet vs. LotR

Well, I'm reading through the wonderful Cleric Quintet again, and I must say that after seeing the LotR movies and reading the books again about 2 years ago, I would rather they have made a "Cleric Quintet" line of movies. Although not as popular as the Lord of the Rings, the Cleric Quintet leads us through a journey of a young priest, Cadderly, and his path to finding himself. Along with characters that make the LotR characters look empty, this series' (or one nice sized book, C.E.) story blows away the "epic" adventure that is LotR. If you've read the Cleric Quintet before, courtesy of our angst filled stupid ranger creating R.A. Salvatore, I would like to know if you guys really feel that LotR is a poopy story compared to that of Cadderly, Danica, and the Bouldershoulders?

"Oo Oi!"
 

Geeno

Diabloii.Net Member
I think LOTR is its own thing, if you read the book paying special attention to the language you can see better character depths. Tolkein just doesnt come out and say it.

I havent read cleric though, ill look into it.
 

Munch

Diabloii.Net Member
You're trying to compare a "Forgotten Realms" book published in 2002 to "The Lord of the Rings"?!?

:scratch:
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
Munch said:
You're trying to compare a "Forgotten Realms" book published in 2002 to "The Lord of the Rings"?!?

:scratch:
Yeah, basically. I know LotR holds some high grounds when it comes to being a classic and all, but I just can't shake the fact that The Cleric Quintet is just amazing compared to it! Have you read them both, Munch? (I'm almost sure you have...)
 

Munch

Diabloii.Net Member
Smelly said:
Yeah, basically. I know LotR holds some high grounds when it comes to being a classic and all, but I just can't shake the fact that The Cleric Quintet is just amazing compared to it! Have you read them both, Munch? (I'm almost sure you have...)
No, I haven't read CQ. But I highly doubt its quality in terms of archetypical storylines, revolutionary storytelling, and depth of environment. LOTR is an inspired work that is generally regarded as the greatest piece of literature from the 20th Century.

Can I ask how old you are? I didn't completely appreciate LOTR in high school.
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
Munch said:
No, I haven't read CQ. But I highly doubt its quality in terms of archetypical storylines, revolutionary storytelling, and depth of environment. LOTR is an inspired work that is generally regarded as the greatest piece of literature from the 20th Century.

Can I ask how old you are? I didn't completely appreciate LOTR in high school.
Hah. I'm 19 years old, been out high school for 3 years now with not much to show for it, however. I read LotR when I was a small child (fully understood everything about the story, too. Like I said, it's a classic), and then and again before I even knew the movies were coming out.

I appreciate the work, yes. CQ is just my brand of flavor when it comes to a good book, however. The storytelling is excellent, the depth of the enviroment has been building over the years, so it is very consuming, and the characters themselves are something to brag about. The characters in LotR were nice and in depth, but they lacked a sense of substance in my opinion, like more could have been done with them.

I'm curious as to how many people have read CQ and what their thoughts compared to LotR are. And don't worry (not like I expected an apology, nor do I feel I need one), I didn't take offense to asking my age to determine the amount of appreciation I have for the work that is LotR. In my eyes (key words!) it's just not all that great. Oh and I read the hobbit about 3 times, only... and when I again, was a small lad.
 

Geeno

Diabloii.Net Member
A small child and most people for that matter wont understand LOTR even though they can read the words.

The characters lost their depth in the movies.
 

Dutchman

Diabloii.Net Member
The fundamental flaw with the Clerical Quintet is that the main character is invincible. It gets a tad boring. When he is young and inexperienced, and has no clue what he is doing, he successfully beats the experienced bad guy at his own game through pure strength of will. As it progresses he gets more and more indestructible.

At least for Drizzt he explained what made him so damn good, with Cadderly he wins even when he shouldn't. Lets let him lose an important one now and again shall we?

You're comparing this to LoTR where the main character is a generally normal guy who regularly gets his arse kicked and spends most of his time running away? If you're the guy who actually likes perfect, unbeatable characters I really don't find it surprising that you like the CQ over LoTR. The rest of the world likes a few flaws and the odd loss.

Dutch
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
Geeno said:
A small child and most people for that matter wont understand LOTR even though they can read the words.

The characters lost their depth in the movies.
I'd beg to differ, my understanding then and now was pretty much complete. You should see the size of my head. And yes, the movies somewhat did kill the LotR, even though they came out very well. But I'm talking about the books.

Dutch,

Cadderly is full of flaws in the beginning, and he mostly wins out of luck and thinking. Had he faced a lot of his opponents DIRECTLY, without the aid of his friends, he surely would have died. And he did get beat up a lot, and the enemy could have killed him many times. He was never invincible, and that fact was pretty obvious the whole book.

And in the LotR, the masterful art of Tolkien made it so that the main character was never really running away from anything, despite his obvious flaws. :)
 

Geeno

Diabloii.Net Member
Im sorry I dont believe a child could fully understand the literary devices of a teacher from Oxford, not to mention that he spent his spare time studying languages aside from work.

JRR Tolkien has the gift of gab and you cant deny.
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
Geeno said:
Im sorry I dont believe a child could fully understand the literary devices of a teacher from Oxford, not to mention that he spent his spare time studying languages aside from work.

JRR Tolkien has the gift of gab and you cant deny.
Ah, you haven't met me as a child then. I seem to get dumber as I get older, and I kid you not. And yes, this child fully understood the literary devices of Tolkien. One of the few reasons I'm pushing on becoming a writer, my dear Geeno.
 

Zulehan

Diabloii.Net Member
Geeno said:
Im sorry I dont believe a child could fully understand the literary devices of a teacher from Oxford, not to mention that he spent his spare time studying languages aside from work.

JRR Tolkien has the gift of gab and you cant deny.
Geeno's right. Some plants are thicker than others. It's the side effects that count.

I'd have to say, at risk of throwing the subject off topic, that I liked the Elric saga by Michael Moorcock better than the Lord of the Rings trilogy. But I highly doubt that the movies will be better than Peter Jackson's LOTR. He just did it right.
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
Zulehan said:
Geeno's right. Some plants are thicker than others. It's the side effects that count.

I'd have to say, at risk of throwing the subject off topic, that I liked the Elric saga by Michael Moorcock better than the Lord of the Rings trilogy. But I highly doubt that the movies will be better than Peter Jackson's LOTR. He just did it right.
I'll definately have to check that out.
 

Dutchman

Diabloii.Net Member
Smelly said:
Cadderly is full of flaws in the beginning, and he mostly wins out of luck and thinking. Had he faced a lot of his opponents DIRECTLY, without the aid of his friends, he surely would have died. And he did get beat up a lot, and the enemy could have killed him many times. He was never invincible, and that fact was pretty obvious the whole book.
While cadderly is still a total rookie numbnuts he has that mind stealing body invader dude attack him. He fights him out of his mind and kills him in the process. This is a guy who has been overpowering people's minds with the aid of powerful magic for hundreds of years and downy cheeked Cadderly beats him. Is having someone invade your mind and fighting him off not direct, solo confrontation? If I've forgotten some key component here please enlighten me as its been ages since I read those books and I have done everything since to avoid recalling their craptasic nature.

Dutch

Edit: And for anyone who wants truly great fantasy pick up Game of Thrones by Martin or the Malazan Books of the Fallen by Erickson. Salvatore is an entertaining afternoon if you aren't in the mood for any thought, nothing more.
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
Dutchman said:
While cadderly is still a total rookie numbnuts he has that mind stealing body invader dude attack him. He fights him out of his mind and kills him in the process. This is a guy who has been overpowering people's minds with the aid of powerful magic for hundreds of years and downy cheeked Cadderly beats him. Is having someone invade your mind and fighting him off not direct, solo confrontation? If I've forgotten some key component here please enlighten me as its been ages since I read those books and I have done everything since to avoid recalling their craptasic nature.

Dutch

Edit: And for anyone who wants truly great fantasy pick up Game of Thrones by Martin or the Malazan Books of the Fallen by Erickson. Salvatore is an entertaining afternoon if you aren't in the mood for any thought, nothing more.
Well, he did fight off Druzil the same way, and by all means Ghost was a weak person. He was weak, weak, weak. The only thing powerful about him was that not many people could fight him off. Danica fought him off, too. And I'll check out Game of Thrones and Malazan Books of the Fallen. Hope it's nothing like the dumb Dragonlance books. :(
 

Carnage-DVS

Diabloii.Net Member
Smelly said:
Well, he did fight off Druzil the same way, and by all means Ghost was a weak person. He was weak, weak, weak. The only thing powerful about him was that not many people could fight him off. Danica fought him off, too. And I'll check out Game of Thrones and Malazan Books of the Fallen. Hope it's nothing like the dumb Dragonlance books. :(
HEY! Don't diss Dragonlance! The core books are a damn good read!
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
I half remember reading them as a child, and it was probably the only fantasy series that I ever put down and decided not to give another chance : (
 

sunbearie

Diabloii.Net Member
Dragonlance has pretty good books. Its only beacause other writers who apparently didn't read the original books start jumping on the bandwagon then it became a very very bad series.

I've read both series and I think comparing LoTR to the cleric Quintet is like comparing apples to oranges. They're obviously written in different styles and people who say the Cleric Quintet is just swallow entertainment do have a sliver of truth in it. Its a good book but you can dive out of the story.

LoTR on the other hand can also be said to be utterly boring(at least to me) but it paints a much more detailed world simply by itself.
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
sunbearie said:
...but it paints a much more detailed world simply by itself.
I agree with you there completely. What strikes me as cool about CQ is the characters. I plan on writing a few books in my life, and I love reading in depth characters. I love when the readers get emotionally involved in books, and I must say the characters from CQ are very memorable.

I don't think I'm too off base for comparing these two books, however. Both are fantasy novels, and although I can be quite certain that Salvatore had read LotR prior to writing his own novels, I believe making a comparison between both stories (not the authors) is valid. I would have much rather wanted to see the Bouldershoulders in LotR instead of Gimli, for example. The depth of two brothers, as compared to Gimli, is astounding.
 

Choogy

Diabloii.Net Member
I havnt tried Cleric Quintet...though i thought LotR is very good
I still like WoT, I dont care who disses it...

New novel thats good read called Eragon, gonna be part of a trilogy...
...
 
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