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The Bashin' of the Christ

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by IDupedInMyPants, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    The Bashin' of the Christ

    This is a conceptual spinoff of another thread, but I felt this would be better as its own discussion rather than a hijack. The premise here is going to be that Christianity takes a lot of heat, especially around here and especially directed towards the recent Jesus movie.

    For example, Anyee's thread seemingly states that the movie causes violence, and then she had to write one paragraph per sentence of her opening post to defend the statement as an ironic look at how dumb people are. So does the movie cause violence? Are religious people dumb?

    Another example is a recent Newsweek review of the movie I read, in which the idea is forwarded many times that Gibson wanted to make a homoerotic masochism flick to get himself off and simultaneously demonize Jews. The writer pushes this idea off on the reader so many times one gets the impression that they wish this were the case rather than believing it's the case.

    Is the movie homoerotic? Does Christianity or the movie demonize Jews?

    What is it about Christianity in general that's so attackable? Where's the need to bash people's beliefs? Do Christian morals threaten you? Is Christianity so ridiculous that we just can't keep our fingers from exploding into ad hominem immediately upon seeing anything related to the religion?

    Discuss.
     
  2. Hippie Holocost

    Hippie Holocost IncGamers Member

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    First just to let you know, I'm athiest...


    I went to go see the movie when it came out. When the movie was over I remeber exactly what I did. I walked outside, pissed for about 20 minutes, smoked a cigarette, then drove home.

    No where in that timeline did I start hating Jews, killing Jews, or screaming like a wild monkey.


    If someone gets mad after the movie, they are stupid. Whether they are Christian or not.
     
  3. smokey[dead]

    smokey[dead] Banned

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    Very good point, I think that it's not that God scares people, but Hell in itself scares people. They shudder at the thought of eternal suffering. They feel that if they bash it long enough that it will go away and maybe a God doesnt exist. Which doesnt make sense because if there is no God, there is no life and no existance. Or maybe it's because the Catholic church has made so many mistakes in the past, with the inquistions and with the head bishops and church officials raping boys. There are always going to be religious fantics out there who take the bible too literally, but I'm not one of those people. I'm a Baptist and i respect everyone's views I dont force christianity onto people.
     
  4. Suicidal Zebra

    Suicidal Zebra IncGamers Member

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    Erm... nope. Really not.

    As for The Passion Duped, I will withhold opinion until I have seen it, which probably will not be for a while, for better or worse.
     
  5. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    Just some pre-emptive disclaimers here to hopefully avoid a nuclear flamewar, I'm reading over my post and thinking I can see how someone could conceivably take this the wrong way.

    I'm not Christian nor advocating Christianity here, just kinda facillitating discussion on what seems to be a trend.

    I haven't actually seen the Passion yet either, so I'm asking those questions in all seriousness, not in a sarcastic, trying-to-make-a-point way.
     
  6. caddad

    caddad IncGamers Member

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    It's attackable because it is important to people and it gets an immediate reaction. If it was something trivial there would be less of a reaction, therefore not worth fighting about. Beliefs are different, with different beliefs come different levels of tolerance for any other beliefs. The ones with the least tolerance do the most bashing.

    People hail from different sides of the tolerance spectrum. There is no easy answer other than to be comfortable with what you believe and stop telling others what to believe.

    -D2netDad
     
  7. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    I dunno about that fear of Hell thing, smokey. Though you being a Baptist explains your view quite well; man those guys are all about fire and brimstone (at least they are in Georgia - yikes!)

    Besides, if people were really afraid of Hell, there would be a lot more Jews in the world. The concept of Hell according to Judaism is reserved for a very select few evil, evil dudes. At least that's what I've picked up on the street.
     
  8. Anyee

    Anyee IncGamers Member

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    I have little problem with Christianity as a concept. Hanging out with Jesus is great. The Bible's an interesting book. Who wouldn't like pagentry?

    But the practicing of Christianity, with its various condemnations of various things that are dear to me, like premarital sex and so on, plus the Christian mission to convert all around them, makes Christianity something I try to stay away from as a general rule. Mom's Christian, so I can't get away totally. Know what it's like to have someone pray for you to get "better," where "better" means not being *** anymore? Yeah, that's sort why I'm not fond of christianity. It's a good thing my gods don't listen to the christian ones.

    I don't burn down churches and I respect my friends' religions insomuch as they don't try to enforce their version of morality on me. They can go off and hate medicine, dislike Jews, and burn homos in their free time. They can even discuss it when they're around me. the minute they say "and you need to do this," I'm gone. Even the most religious among them haven't and I accept their myriad stuff.
     
  9. Carnage-DVS

    Carnage-DVS IncGamers Member

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    Islam comes under attack as much, if not more than Christianty as well. I'm not that religous either, but I believe that everyone should believe what they want to believe, and not force your beliefs down other peoples throats.
     
  10. Chief JB

    Chief JB IncGamers Member

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    I think people who believe there is no god believe exactly that. It does make sense to them because they have their own scientific beliefs and what not. To you the idea of having no god equals no life makes sense and thats fine since it's your religion and what you believe, but in the same way that you see everything created by God, they see it created in a whole different way.

    Everyone has their own view on things, and probably won't change it for much.
     
  11. smokey[dead]

    smokey[dead] Banned

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    Yea, I live in Georgia, a lot of people call the baptist's the foot washers, but I tend to be more on the conservative side. I'm not really big on Church (havent gone in 3-4 years) but i do pray every night and try to pick up a bible here and there.

    Maybe my hell statement was a bad example since I cant get into an athesists shoes, but I am definity for free religion and speech, I think you can believe in anything you want to as long as it doesnt infringe on anyone's rights. There is however theoratrical proof that there is a "GOD" in a sense. But that's definity for another dicussion and topic ;)
     
  12. Draconis

    Draconis IncGamers Member

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    Much like Anyee, I'm pretty indifferent to religion when it's followers aren't trying to tell me what to do, which thankfully happens very little. Here in the UK religion is generally considered a much more private thing than it seems to be in the states. We find things like televangelism somewhat disturbing and crass, and public proclamations of faith are treated with skepticism.
     
  13. Stevinator

    Stevinator IncGamers Member

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    okay if oyu want to get into a atheist's shoes you have to beable to step away from yourself and your own beliefs...

    If God has never talked to me, and has never had any effect on my life, why should I be reverant to him? why should I respect something that may be aware of my existence but does not do anything that either proves it's own existence or makes it's existence worthwhile.

    So maybe there is a god, but he's not paying any attention to me. then would it matter if there was a god or not?

    now take that one step further, why should I assume something is there when i have no evidence of it existing, has no effect on my life, and can't be seen or heard or felt?

    So to me, even if a god did exist...and i don't think he/she/it does, it wouldn't matter in my life, why spend hours every sunday being glad it's there if it's not doing anything. it smells like a scam to me.

    especially when the argument for everything is god said so or it's in the bible. you would think if something was truely true, it would be self-evident and we wouldn't need a book to tell us. the evidence would point that way.

    for instance many christians don't believe in evolution. they say it never happened because god said it didn't happen. see in the bible...first few pages...didn't happen. but arceologists have found all kinds of evidence of evolution, natural selection, we've even breeded dogs and cows and other animals using the same principles. so ot me, the evidence suggests that evolution exists. Who or what should I believe in? my own eyes or some god that has never made his/her/its prescence known to me?

    Now many christians say they have actually talked to god...well i could see that...if they did talk to him/her/it whatever then i can understand their believing in him/it/her.

    I'm not going to try to determine whether the conversation actually happened unless they press me about it. but I'm not going to believe them until i have a good reason to.

    that's the mindset of this atheist...hope it helps you see where i'm coming from.
     
  14. Suicidal Zebra

    Suicidal Zebra IncGamers Member

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    So, baring Hippie, has anyone actually seen the film? I only ask that because it would be a shame if this turned into another aethism vs Christianity thread.

    Anyway, in the mold of The Passion... does anyone think that Schlindlers List protrayed the Germans in a negative manner?
     
  15. smokey[dead]

    smokey[dead] Banned

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    Yes, i understand completely.


    God CANT do anything, if you stepped in my shoes you would understand that God gave everyone free will, that means if someone else shoots another person it wouldnt be God's fault, he created free-will, he cant control the actions of another. Like if your complaining your not rich, he cant just force someone to hire you for a good job or he cant MAKE you get an education, thats what you need to decide for yourself. lol thats a new one a scam? I'm sure the catholic church is just bs'ing everyone and wants everyone to think there is a God so when the sunday collection plate is passed they'll make massive amounts of profits and rule the western hemisphere.

    Dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to convert you to my religion, but if you truly believe in respecting people's views you would respect mine and not call my religion a "scam" How would you feel if i call you being an athesist "stupid" or "********"

    Dont bash other people's religions, it's in the 1st amendment of the bill of rights
    "freedom of religion" Which means i have the freedom to practice it without the ignorant thoughts and actions of people like you.
     
  16. memememe173

    memememe173 IncGamers Member

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    It's a movie. Plain and simple. Read the column on the front page of II.net. Who wants to know that their savour took pisses, WASN'T WHITE, and was human. It much easier to think he was above that all.

    You can not make a historically accurate film, if it has a main character. It certaintly wasn't a comment on the pierod, it was a film of Jesus' last [however many] day(s). Gibson either needed it to be period accurate or "Jesus" accurate.

    If a movie has a main character it's next to impossible to portray him in a neutral manner.
     
  17. Stevinator

    Stevinator IncGamers Member

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    I don't think the catholic church is a scam...but if you look at it from the point of view of a non-believer it looks like one....I know it's not because I think most catholics really do believe in their faith...so they are not trying to be sneaky.

    I did not mean to attack. I'm just saying if god gave you free will and can't intervene on anything, why does it matter if he exists or not? can i live a moral life as a non-believer and still get into your paradise or heaven or whatever?

    Again, i didn't mean to call organized religion a scam...now if a bunch of non-believers created a religion, and took money from people...that would be...but I don't think that happens often, and i certainly don't think baptists are that way.

    I know you're not trying to convert me. You're being very reasonable. I'm not trying to convert you either...I was just trying to show you how a typical atheist might think.

    as for the bashing of other religions...i'm surprised that oyu would bring that up. usually it is christians stepping on the non-christians around here. I'm glad to see you agree with me that everyone should be allowed to practice their own beliefs without having someone else forced upon them.

    i don't think the 1st amdendment stops people from saying that my beliefs are wrong though...otherwise I would've heard a lot of illegal statements about me.
     
  18. Nastie_Bowie

    Nastie_Bowie Banned

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    I am an agnostic, that was raised Roman Catholic, and a parent.

    Try to remember that Mom isn't going to change her views and you are not going to change the way you are. Niether of you should have to. She is still the only Mom you will have. Be patient with her. Some things need to go in one ear and out the other.

    Remember Joni Mitchell's song about the big yellow taxi takin' away my old man?

    Pax, Toots!
     
  19. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    I'm a pagan and my wife's a devout Christian. We're always at it over religion. She refuses to want to learn the archeological part of Christianity, and I'm always on the lookout to learn more.

    No, the movie doesn't cause violence. Any and all violence stemming from it coms from people taking their own views of the world and applying it to what they saw.
    Take anti-semitism. Those who are already anti-semitic will see the movie as proof that the Jews killed Jesus. The fanatics who "know" God wants them to rid the world of Jews will go out and kill.

    No, religious people aren't dumb. The dumb ones are those that take everything written as perfect proof of everything. The bible is both a historical document and a book of fables. The story of Noah was told some 500 years before the first Old Testament was written. It's a ripoff of the Epic of Gilgamesh.

    The dumb ones are those that refuse to try to see the difference between the historical document and the fables.

    I know of that article. The author hadn't even seen the movie before writing the article. He applied his own biases against the movie to see what he wanted to see.

    I can't answer the homoerotic question. But knowing the bias of the author that tried to level that charge I would say no.
    And no it doesn't demonize the Jews. The movie's message is to show that everybody killed Jesus. He died for our sins. Of course I diagree. He dies for the Christian's sins. My own assention to Vahallah depends on something completely different than begging for forgiveness.

    Morality. People belittle Christianity in order to make their own immoral behaviour not look so bad. It is easier then to defend your actions when challenged when the challenger is made to look small. Then the immoral behaviour doesn't seem so bad.

    Because my God can beat up your God. People who attack other's beliefs aren't as confident in their belief being right, so they have to belittle the other faiths to make them look small.

    I think I've already answered that.

    This is one nice thing about being a pagan. Nobody attacks us. We're not a threat to their morality :D
     
  20. ender11782

    ender11782 IncGamers Member

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    GOD: And no premarital sex...
    Anyee: *shaking fist* NOOOO!!!!

    sorry, that line just made me chuckle. <grin>
     

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