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The Art of Pit Running

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Cormallon, Jun 6, 2005.

  1. Cormallon

    Cormallon Diabloii.Net Member

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    The Art of Pit Running

    I got my next char to the hell Pits and tried a few MF runs. The results were not as I expected. I'm not asking for builds or drop chances here, my main concern is the speed of my runs. I read about a lot of people doing Pit runs in less than 5 minutes and now I really wonder how you do that.

    My experiences so far are:

    Hydra sorc:
    Admittedly not the best pit runner because the hydras take a while to kill. I don't do runs with her right now, but a run takes about 20 minutes.

    Hammerdin
    This one is supposed to be a good Pit runner. Mine is built according to the hammerdin guide, but lacks a HoZ. I did quite some runs with him, but it takes about 15 minutes on P1 and about 20 minutes on P8. I'm walking in there because of the archers and to keep blocking on, some archer mods are very nasty for him and it is far from easy.

    Fishy
    My lastest char. He's up to character level 77 and built according to NFs excellent guide, all core skills are done. He has about 300 MF, lacking a harley (PTopaz Tarnhelm instead), Skullders (Vipermagi instead) and Wartravs (Silkweave instead). I have all these but they are in use on other chars and I dont think they would change anything concerning the speed of the runs. He does P1 runs in a little more than 10 minutes, P8 takes 20 minutes and more.

    I am aware of some of the map issues, the fishy rerolled Pit maps until he got a quasi linear and moderately small Pit. Usually I use teleport for the surface part, from the WP towards the entrance, and I ignore everything there (the hammerdin just runs with vigor on, that's almost as fast as teleporting with the entrance just a few steps away from the outer cloister)

    The question I have is: what do you do inside the Pits to get the speed down to under 5 minutes? Do you kill everything or just bosses? Teleport? Other strategies?
     
  2. shermo

    shermo Diabloii.Net Member

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    I suppose it largely depends on your gear. My 2 pit runners are a hammerdin and a multizon. When i get sick of archers running away I switch to the multizon, and when I get tired of stone skin skeletons I switch to the hammerdin.

    My multizon stocks up on the FRW charms, like these:

    Fine Small Charm of Inertia
    Keep in Inventory to Gain Bonus
    Required Level: 27
    Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
    Item Level: **
    Fingerprint: 0x3dbdb87b
    +16 to Attack Rating
    +2 to Maximum Damage
    3% Faster Run/Walk

    Ruby Small Charm of Inertia
    Keep in Inventory to Gain Bonus
    Required Level: 32
    Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
    Item Level: 85
    Fingerprint: 0x1ec36a29
    Fire Resist +11%
    3% Faster Run/Walk

    She also has a titan's on switch for the 20% frw on the way to the entrance. I reckon it makes a fair difference, and an extra 7% mf when you've already got 400% makes bugger all difference to the amount of Golds that drop.

    Similarly, my hammerdin uses charge extensively. Both on the way to the Pits and in it from boss pack to pack.

    You can get a better map for running if you make sure the entrance is near the Black Marsh wp. Then you don't have to wait for doors to open and there's more space to charge/run around monsters. If you try to charge when next to a monster then you'll end up swinging at the monster instead of charging (add it to the list of charge bugs) It takes a while to find a decent map though.

    Also, unless you can handle more you're better off playing on p1.

    edit: and charge up to archers. Since charge counts as an attack your defence + blocking is the same as if you're walking
     
  3. bill_n_opus

    bill_n_opus Diabloii.Net Member

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    When I used to do tons of Pit runs I would normally use a Fishymancer and could do them effectively up to p5 or so. Anything higher and you risk slowing down too much in my opinion. But really, you can do higher as long as you have a high damaging act 2 might merc to get that first corpse and then CE the heck out of everything. Still, i'd rather tone down the players setting to go even faster

    But my main thing to speed up Pit runs are:

    - have the Pit entrance close to the gate in the Tamoe Highland

    - use Naj's Puzzler on switch. This is also important because you can move your army (and merc) to where you are needed. I make sure that I tele and minion stack on top of the Shaman bosses which takes them out immediately. Take them all out and you save yourself probably 15 or more seconds each room because you don't have to deal with resurrected monsters and such.

    Tele is also important because you can take a quick breather and heal yourself/merc so that round 2 takes out the boss pack easier when you are at full health rather than be at the point of dying. Tele also enables you to jump right onto the boss itself so that when you take him out the rest of the minions are de-powered. Having a merc with Reaper's Toll helps tremendously.

    - have a good Pit map. A map that doesn't pull you into one direction but then forces you to double back. Some maps are really good because you can tele over some walls and hit the high concentration monster rooms. Some chain CE and it's all over.

    - same deal with level 2. Run down and tele on top of the first Shaman boss, take him out, tele over to the right and take out the two Shaman bosses, on on top and the other below and then tele over to the left a couple of times and take out the last Shaman there. By this time the other boss packs have converged on you and you have corpses already so CE makes very short work out of them. What takes more time is filtering out the loot.
     
  4. Cormallon

    Cormallon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Hammer damage is about 5-6k with concentration on, blocking is max (with holy shield). Still it takes too much time, as I said before :(
     
  5. SpeedOfLight

    SpeedOfLight Diabloii.Net Member

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    for me a good poisonmancer is the best option.with 6k poison damege, 12 skeletoms and a might merc...is like kill a couple of ants... :clap:
     
  6. phatbrava

    phatbrava Diabloii.Net Member

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    i guess Cormallon (like the rest of us) is running pits for MFing, right?
    where would he get his %MF from with that gear?
    so i think 5-6 K hammer damage in MF gear isnt that low
     
  7. Repusz

    Repusz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well, if you intend to run the Pits for the most shineys possible then IMHO you ought to do so on p1. The extra time it takes is really not worth the extra drops you may get from standard monsters (champions and bosses are unaffected after all). Especially so if you have run time issues.
    I have experience with the fishy only and 10 mins is a lot. With a constant teleport source (charges or Enigma :uhhuh: ) it should be around 3:30 and without it around 5 mins. Do not bother too much with revives, just raise a pack near the entrance then concentrate on CE. You should try to keep everybody AD'ed and keep exploding corpses until everybody is dead, even if only 2-3 monsters are left standing. Any moment you spend standing still is wasted. If you have nothing else to do then try to walk away from the battle a bit and lure several monsters to the site of the battle to increase the effectiveness of your CE - similarly to cow hearding in 1.09.
    I hope I could help. :)

    Repusz
     
  8. Randall

    Randall Diabloii.Net Member

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    Like Repusz says.

    When you go for MF stay on P1 and use Amp/CE. Should kill all baddies fast.

    You could even pick another lvl85 area as a fishy usually can handle allmost all areas with the same effect.

    With lvl 85 areas like River of Flame / WSK you don't have the initial running to the entrance (and you save more time)

    Randall
     
  9. Serdash

    Serdash Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well my hammerdin can do /players 8 pits in <10 minutes(Never timed it, so that's a guess).

    He uses...(be ready for my crappy gear...
    HotO
    HoZ(PDiamond)
    Skullders(PTopaz)
    Harlequin Crest(PTopaz)
    SoJ
    Ravenfrost(17 Dex)
    Thundergod's Vigor
    Wartravs(38%)
    Chance Guards(39%)
    Mara's
    Gull/Rhyme on Switch

    Overall he has 1.6k life, ~8k defense, 9k hammer damage, maxed resists, maxed blocking, and overall just pwns face.

    IMO a standard pit run shouldn't take more than 10 minutes. Otherwise you're probably wasting your time and should do something else to improve your gear, like hell meph.

    My Pit map has a fairly short run from the Inner Cloister to The Pit. On the way there is a camp of Carvers, I always stop there and nuke the group. Maybe a waste of time, but you never know, something halfway decent might drop.

    As far as the pit itself I simply take the same route each time, passing through each area killing all of the monsters, if one or two fallen get away, I don't usually bother. In level 2 of the pit I always kill EVERYTHING and pop the chests/corpses down there.

    Buuuuuuuut pit running is boring after a while. *shrug*
     
  10. Noodle

    Noodle Moderator

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    Inner Cloister? I recommend starting from the Outer Cloister, as you can save yourself a few minutes by avoiding all those jail levels.

    A good LF-zon or strafeazon can do the Pit in five minutes or less, easily.

    - Noodle
     
  11. Severoth

    Severoth Diabloii.Net Member

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    I always wonder why people run the pits when there are other "safer" level 85 areas. The thought of boss packs of archers intermingling together just makes me wince.
     
  12. MFMOFO

    MFMOFO Banned

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    I use a bowazon (multi and guided) and i always complete the pits in 10 minutes or less. Although a poison/sumon necro can do very good too.
     
  13. Artagas

    Artagas Diabloii.Net Member

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    because for some chars it is as safe as any, and it has a very nice boss pack/size ratio. my fishy runs in really cheap gear and never had a problem staying alive. though i, too wonder how people get those 3:30 or so run times.

    i run with an almost linear map (i can clear the 90% of it without loops, and i don't bother with the rest, since bosses scarcely spawn there), and i CE kills really fast, but still, counting saving/loading, ID-ing things, etc. i rarely do it faster than 6 minutes. i only have +9 on the summon tree and +6 on everything else, but honestly i doubt more skills would speed me up a lot. it is usually my merc who gets the first kill and from there on i just explode the rest. the skellies serve more or less as a damage absorbing wall. (what could speed me up is a max revive/enigma combo...but...let's be serious!)
    for the same reason i am not doing these runs a lot lately. pindle or throne rushes (0:45 for the sooner, between 6-10 for the latter) with my sorc tend to be more rewarding. though corpse exploding is indeed a lot of fun, especially compared to the tead of killing Pindle.
     
  14. geep

    geep Diabloii.Net Member

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    I dont know if anyone has mentioned this but the speed depends on how far the pit entrance is from the WP and how your map is set up. A lot of dead ends = more time, if your really interested in running the pit you should set your players setting to 1 and take about 30 mins and run through map's and check the size and make sure theres not many dead ends and its not extremely big.
     
  15. Lucky_Seven

    Lucky_Seven Diabloii.Net Member

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    I like to do that with my hammerdin and my witchizon (Strafe )and runs take less then 6 minutes.

    I have ~300 MF.

    Witchizon is real fun...
     
  16. Masas

    Masas Diabloii.Net Member

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    If I wasn't suffering from an injury in my right hand (I'm right handed) at the moment, I'd make a Vid of my Fishy's pit run. Currently I can't play D2 efficiantly, other than lvling new chars in act 1 :( .
     
  17. DougTheHead2

    DougTheHead2 Diabloii.Net Member

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    My strafer zon does pit runs in 6 mins average, including the short run from the OC. A nice linear path is a very good thing to have too. Your fishy should be faster, just Corpse Explosion/Amp damage everything. I only did p1 runs with my fishy, and the tele is a big help.
     
  18. Cormallon

    Cormallon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Thank you for your comments this far. Right now I don't see anything I do really wrong, except that I didn't try teleporting right in front of the bosses with my fishy (he needs one more level for the puzzler, that is one more run to do...). We'll see if that really speeds up the runs by a factor of 2 or even 3, 3:30 per run seems to be very far away for me.

    I didn't bother to get a Pit next to either the cloister door or the Black Marsh WP yet... It doesn't make sense to spare those 15 seconds to get there until I can do the runs inside the Pit fast enough, I have to find out how to do that in under 5 minutes, and then I'll get a better located entrance ;)

    Why run the Pit at all, some asked. Well, first of all the Pit isn't dangerous for my fishy. He never was in any danger to die, the skellies protect him very well, they usually catch all the arrows shot at him. With 5 or 6 bosses the density is quite high there, and every item may drop (not like Pindle who misses 3 most rare). My hammerdin resorted to running mausoleum instead, no archers there, but he isn't fast in that area, too. I guess I have to wait for a HoZ and a few skillers to get his damage up.

    @Masas: such a video would be very interesting. i hope you'll be well soon :thumbsup:

    Any more clues anybody?
     
  19. Artagas

    Artagas Diabloii.Net Member

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    just to protect the poor old skelly, he doesn't miss the 3 rarest. he is missing the single rarest (tyrael's), and two others that are not very insanely rare (Azurewrath, and Arachnid Mesh iirc. i have found 1 of the sooner and 2 or 3 of the latter being some 170 items away from a grail).

    Give the ancient tunnels a chanche. I find it very easy to clean that place, though i have not measured my clearing-time yet. Actually, i might just do that now.
    I completely agree with you on the wp-pit entrance distance being unimportant. you spend like 5% of your time or not even so walking there, so if you got a good pit map, it is sorta pointless to reroll it just because it is a little far from the wp.

    Btw, I found my first Occulus with my first matriarch in the pit (from a regular fallen shaman), which was the single biggest step in my mf career. So if nothing else i have nice memories of that place.
     
  20. tweety

    tweety Diabloii.Net Member

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    I agree with Artagas, try the Ancient tunnels. The level itself is pretty small, but the boss-pack density can be very high.
    With my blizzy sorc I just teleport to the places where the boss packs usually are and kill them quickly. With the waypoint close to the entrance of the tunnels you can kill about 6 boss packs in 1-2 minutes. Almost as good as Pindling.
     

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